posted
I have a back up story all ready. Casting about for another, though. I sort of plan to spend Dec writing the first draft of that Christmas on Mars story. Whatever happens it's going to be one of Mars Born stories.
Posts: 1580 | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
I'm in. I think (hope) I can work to those dates, haven't been game to have anything published yet, and am intrigued by the process. *laughs nervously*
WriterDan Owasm JenniferHicks Arriki Dark Warrior Teraen BenM
posted
Along with dates, should we post a recommended amount of reviews? With multiple drafts, is it reasonable to ask each person to review every manuscript? Do we implement a minimum of at least two reviews per person to make sure everyone is getting a few reviews?
Not sure how this works, that's all... And a little worried I may have too many manuscripts to give decent feedbacks on...
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Teraen: Fixed! Freaking copy and paste errors... Thanks for the heads up. I changed it this time to hopefully avoid this mistake in the future. still, apparently that line has read "Q03" for about the last year. rofl! Just went and fixed those too. I'm such a freak.
Now get writing everyone!
[This message has been edited by WriterDan (edited December 02, 2009).]
posted
Of those who are entering, I am curious: who has entered before? How did you do? In a writing group, its common to discuss each writers' history and ambitions. Online, I suppose it could work the same way. Regardless, I'd be curious about the people I'll be working with here.
As for me, this will be my first complete short story (save for the random flash fiction...) that I've ever written. I like the idea of submitting to WOTF as a first time author, as it makes me stretch myself more than I think I otherwise would. As far as other works, I've only submitted one novel before, which was rejected by a handful of agents, editors, and one contest. (I tabled it to work on something I am more passionate about until I learn enough to go back and work on it. It was rather amateurish...)
posted
I've entered WotF about a dozen times so far, with 4 or 5 of those coming back as HMs. I've never sent my stuff anywhere else, but will start doing so as soon as I place in the WotF contest.
Posts: 599 | Registered: Sep 2007
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posted
I've entered three times. I'm 2 for 2 in getting HM's. I haven't gotten word back for the last one.
As far as I can tell, WotF is a market that's a bit different than others. Story arc and characters are important. Dark stories are at a bit of a disadvantage.
For that reason, Writer Dan, I wouldn't wait to place in WotF before you send your work out to other markets. You have to find markets that fit your work and those will be different than WotF.
posted
And HM IS a placing, it used to be called "quarter-finalist" (but that was confusing as there are Finalists for each Quarter).
Seriously, send your stories out. I haven't done better than HM at WOTF and I have sold more than 30 stories. It is not and should not be the only yardstick you use for your progress as a writer.
posted
I think I know where WriterDan may be coming from (correct me if I am wrong here...) But since an author is disqualified from WOTF if they are otherwise professionally published, and since a placing at WOTF is such a resume enhancer, he may be willing to put off professional publication until he gets the WOTF placing he seeks.
I can definitely see myself falling into this trap... if it is a trap at all. I enjoy writing, but short stories are my means to getting a novel published. I hope to improve my craft and simultaneously pad my resume with enough success to get an agent or editor's attention. Since WOTF helps with both of those (good reputation and skill needed) I would happy with continual submissions only to them. For me, I think the breaking point would be when my novel was completed and ready for submission. If I still haven't placed in WOTF, I'd go ahead and start submitting the same short stories to other markets in hopes I could get published then. But, since my novel isn't writted yet, I am happy to take as long as I need for the WOTF contest placement.
posted
If one is worried about WotF disqualification, then don't submit to a pro market after you've made two pro sales. That way you can write more than one story a quarter and get some minor creds.
As for me, at this point, I'm happy to have anybody print my stuff.
The reason that I'm only submitting my stuff to Writers of the Future is two-fold, and is one that I really hit hard on. There are loads of authors that fall into one of two categories: great stories that take forever to write, and mediocre stories that get whipped out like nothing flat. I don't want to fall into either category. I want to train myself to write stories quickly and have the quality be up there at the same time. Thus, I feel like I need obvious deadlines to meet. WotF satisfies that requirement quite well. In fact, it's one of the only regular contests that I know of that will help out a new author's writing career as well. I want to write good stories. In fact, I want them to be amazing. But I want to learn how to do all that in a relatively quick manner. So, submitting to other magazines, while beneficial, doesn't really help me in the "regular and quick" regime. I figure, once I can place in WotF, I'll be at a point where I can start submitting to magazines and really do so on a regular basis. Two last points: 1) self-imposed deadlines haven't worked really well for me in the past, and 2) I've always been told to start from the top when it comes to submitting for publication. Thus, this is what I've chosen to do for now. And I think it's working out fairly well so far.
posted
I've entered five times now (including the entry I put in the mail Monday). Out of those: Rejections: 1 HMs: 2 TBAs: 2
Posts: 968 | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
Interesting responses, all. I'm going to ask another thing now... How far are you along in your writing for this period submission? And what is your story about? (the one line pitch) I'm up to about 8k words, which I assume is about 2/3 of the way through. I've got my plotting done, I know what scenes are going to take place, and I am working on the best way of executing it. I plan to finish a first draft in about 2 weeks. I ask, because I am a student and during the winter break I would love to review stories and provide feedback, but it can be tough when classes start. I'm still getting through one from the last group that I haven't been able to pay full attention to due to finals...
My story is about how a man's life is changed when he makes the greatest scientific discovery in history.
[This message has been edited by Teraen (edited December 10, 2009).]
posted
I've entered a bunch of times. Before I got involved with Hatrack, all I got was a string of flat-out rejections. Since then I've been HMing.
Posts: 715 | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
I was discussing WotF with a colleague today and in doing so I think I distilled part of my reason for wanting to enter.
What I hope to get out of the experience is simply an idea of where my writing is at. If I submit to a publisher and just get the binary accept/reject (most likely form rejection) result, I'm not sure that would tell me enough. What I'm hoping for, with WotF, is to get an idea of where my writing stands in the results scale. Can I write something good enough to get an HM?
I tend to cower in a corner and be afraid of stepping up most of the time, and so I guess I'm just hoping to find this a painless way to dip my toe into the real publishing world; a confidence building exercise, if you will.
posted
I have two beginnings started. I think I will work on them both a bit and see which one develops into something more suited for WOTF and which I will work on for a pro submission somewhere else. I already have an idea which will probably be which but that is subject to change as the stories develop.
Posts: 710 | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
DW: Why not write both and submit them to subsequent quarters?
Posts: 496 | Registered: May 2009
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dougsguitar
unregistered
posted
So I would love to join this group. Here is the rub; I think I need more practice before jumping in to this. I feel like I would bog the process down too much. So here is the newbie question, trusting you to be honest about the responses; should a real rookie be trying this yet or should I learn more about the actual technicalities of good writing and catch the next go'round? I plan to be here for a very long time so waiting is not a bad option for me. After reading the work you guys are producing I am seeing a gap between 'greatness' and what I am able to throw down with. You have already helped me identify a tremendous shortfall in my base writing skill. I know this is how you learn, but I would feel like the sqweeeeeky wheel trying to hang with you at this point. I can tell that all of you take this very seriously, one of the most attractive aspects of this group as a whole. I know I am not a 'first-string' player yet... but I certainly plan on becoming one. Sincerely, Deauxglas
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Dougsquitar...they let me join and i doubt your first shot could be any worse than mine. I think one reader said they actually vomited reading my first draft.
But, even if I get a rejection letter on my first entry I could not begin to tell you how much I learned about my voice, POV, style, and many other things this quarter.
posted
Teraen, I thought about that. But I actually have a third one I want to work on for Q03. I am sure in the next three months many things will change, so who knows? Then if/when the pro one gets rejected I can still edit for another WOTF quarter down the road.
Posts: 710 | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
Doug - you can always join the group, write to the deadlines and then decide not to share or submit your story if you can't get it into shape in time. Many of us push (or shatter) our self-imposed deadlines.
Posts: 715 | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Doug I highly reccomend that you join. I was very nervous about joining my first time too and I wasn't sure if I was anywhere close to the level I should be. I did it anyways and getting all the feedback and working on the critiquing was wonderful and even helped my writing go up a notch. You lose nothing if you enter the competition and there's a lot to gain if you do.
Posts: 968 | Registered: Jul 2008
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If you are worried that your first submission will create a bad impression, just think how thrilled KD Wentworth will be when your second submission is an improvement. And as she watches your submissions improve, she will begin cheering for you.
Editors actually do find it exciting to see writers get closer and closer to the goal of publication.
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Doug, what's the worst that will happen? You may not be up to par, but you'll improve no matter what...
Posts: 496 | Registered: May 2009
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quote:If you are worried that your first submission will create a bad impression, just think how thrilled KD Wentworth will be when your second submission is an improvement. And as she watches your submissions improve, she will begin cheering for you.
The WotF contest is anonymous. KDW has no idea who wrote what unless you finish semi-finalist or higher. So you can write the crappiest submission she ever read one quarter than win it the next and she would never know.
Last quarters 2nd place winner sent two rejections before cracking into stardom.
posted
Being less familiar with the structure of WotF, I was wondering if there is a thread already setup which explains what I'm supposed to do with this? I am 'bout 600 words into the story, with another 600 on the way today. Not sure about the story word count target/particulars, etc. Thanks!
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@doug - I am reposting a link to a Hatrackers blog. I cant find the thread where he originally posted it. If you scroll down he talks about winning WOTF.
posted
Quick check in: I'm about halfway done with my story, and see that I am only at 3000 words. Is there an average length? I wonder, since the cutoff is 17K, I don't want to come in too short.
How's is everyone else's coming along?
Oh. And I went off on an idea I had last week, so this isn't the story I had started originally... I started a second one. I may have two by the time drafts come along...
quote:Quick check in: I'm about halfway done with my story, and see that I am only at 3000 words. Is there an average length? I wonder, since the cutoff is 17K, I don't want to come in too short.
I was wondering the same thing, since I did crits for two stories that were 2-3k words last quarter. I only have 3 anthologies but it didnt seem like any of the stories in there were that short.
posted
I don't really care about the average. I just wonder if it will be less likely to win based on the inherent limitations of shorter stories: Shorter stories= less detail, harder to tell good stories...
posted
In the past, if there was still room in the yearly anthology after all the winners got spots, the editor would select from the finalists for the year.
If the winners were heavy on fantasy, then the science fiction finalists would be more likely to be included, and vice versa. But there was also the constraint of space, so shorter finalist stories might be more likely to be included because that would mean more stories in the anthology.
And if your story is included in the yearly anthology, there is additional pay beyond any prize money.
So I wouldn't worry about a story being short if it's long enough to tell the story. If it wins, that's way cool, but if it's a finalist, it may have a better chance of being selected for the anthology than a longer story, and that's also cool.
posted
Made it to about 3000 words. I am questioning/second guessing myself on the way the story is unfolding and plan to discuss this on a topic thread this week. I could also use some input on handling radical tech stuff and character intellect which is way higher than my own. I am having a blast with this!
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posted
Well, let me elaborate. I didn't mean that submitting a short story was bad, per se. But the inherent limitations of a shorter story lend themselves to less ability to develop plot, characterization, etc. After all, which form usually can have better stories? Flash fiction or short stories? I would contend short stories would (though I am sure there are some good flash gems out there...)
I am just worried I may be shortchanging my *winning* chances by submitting a work shorter than the average (based on what I've read in the anthologies). This translates to a story which may have less than average plot/charactization/etc... Which translates to less than average rating...
posted
If the manuscript is too short to get the story across, then it needs to be longer.
If the manuscript is full of padding (stuff just to make it longer) and can be told in fewer words, then it needs to be shorter.
Since Stephen King (among others) recommends cutting 10% of a story, once all the other editing has been done, it seems to me that the implication is the stories that can be told as shortly as possible are more likely to be considered the best stories.
(I wish there were a "shrug" smilie.)
Edited to add: OSC has said more than once (I'm paraphrasing, by the way) that anything that can be removed from a story and the story still work should be removed. The only things that should be included in a story are the things that are absolutely necessary in order to tell the story.
So perhaps those in doubt should first write, write, write, and then cut, cut, cut. And whatever length results in a good story is the right length, regardless of averages. (After all, averages are only statistics, and I believe it was Mark Twain who said that there are lies, there are damn lies, and then there are statistics.)
[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited December 29, 2009).]
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