posted
So, another reflection of my lifelong obsession with the Pied Piper of Hamelin, this time a more or less positive view. Comments on the 13 welcome, full reads better.
Peter took a deep breath and finished his drink before going back on stage for the second set. There was a good crowd in the Blue Note jazz club tonight. There was a good crowd every night Peter and the Piper’s played anywhere; he made sure of it.
Even as he walked up on stage his fingers strayed down to the flute tied in its red and yellow sash at his waist, always eager to be playing. It was an old, old habit, one he found impossible to break.
He pulled the pipe from its sash and laid it to his lips. He played three soft, sweet, descending notes, unaccompanied. For those three notes everyone in the club, the patrons, the bartender, even the members of his band, stopped in their tracks and listened.
Slightly different version
Peter took a deep breath and finished his drink before going back on stage for the second set. As he walked on stage his fingers strayed to the flute tied in its red and yellow sash at his waist, always eager to be playing. It was an old, old habit, one he found impossible to break.
He pulled the pipe from its sash and laid it to his lips. He played three soft, descending notes, willing them outward on his breathe, through the club’s smokey air, to the ears and minds of those passing by.
For those three notes everyone in the club, the patrons, the bartender, even the members of his band, stopped and listened. Several people entered the club at a moment later and
posted
Looks fine. Intriguing twist. I am going to write a Pied Piper short story. Anyway, I keep reading.
"He made sure of it." To me, that implies paying people to come. Or making friends come. Did you want something like "His presence guaranteed it."
I am guessing that three notes are not enough to normally attract much attention. So either there's something magical or he has a great reputation.
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posted
An individual and . . . pleasantries and self-idealization.
No engagement facet to speak of, everyday trivial routine. One sole possible wild projection that Peter is a casual life tourist who seeks for a cause, or a cause seeks, given or taken, is due larger-than-life life transformative mayhem, of whatever magnitude: quiet whimper to mild simmer to robust boil upset.
Many interpretations abound about the Pied Piper topos, a musician who shall lead them all is among the many, only one of the basic four criteria for a fully realized topos: the superficial basis, mechanical more or less; a social paradigm subtext, a personal moral crisis subtext, and freshness of invention. The least one out of four is too sparse for me.
quote: I am guessing that three notes are not enough to normally attract much attention. So either there's something magical or he has a great reputation.
It's magic. That's also how he "makes sure of it."
quote: Many interpretations abound about the Pied-Piper topos, a musician who shall lead them all is among the many, only one of the basic four criteria for a fully realized topos: the superficial basis, mechanical more or less; a social paradigm subtext, a personal moral crisis subtext, and freshness of invention. The least one out of four is too sparse for me.
This sounds intriguing, but as usual I'm not sure what you're talking about. Is "topos" fancy talk for archetype? Would you care to elaborate on and clarify this for me please?
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Webster's, topos, from the Greek koinos topos: "common place" or "commonplace" * : "a traditional or conventional literary or rhetorical theme or topic".
* Commonplace (noun), prose, generally, and stage and screenplay script: "Commonplace is 'a composition which amplifies inherent evils' (originally described as an amplification of either a virtue or vice, but in practice more the latter). A preparation for the following two exercises, encomium and vituperation, the commonplace differed from these by taking up a general virtue or vice [Menippean satire], rather than the specific qualities of a single person [Jevanalean satire]. Subjects included gambling, theft, adultery, etc. Sometimes it took up the virtues/vices of specific kinds of persons; e.g., tyrants [Horatioan satire]. See also topics of invention (sometimes named the 'commonplaces') and proverbs, maxims, and sententia (all of which are sometimes referred to as 'commonplaces') (Gideon Burton, "Progymnasmata," Silva Rhetoricae, rheoric.byu.edu).
For literary arts, "archetypes" are personas who exemplify a social-moral condition set and topos of a commonplace's extended metaphor: allegory. For stock archetype examples out of central cast inventory, who represent commonplaces' topos, see "Stock Character," Wikipedia. Many more archetypes are extant and possible than are indexed there, too, one, of late a stock for noir, the femme fatale, masculist fatale, too; another for picaresque, the hooker with a heart of gold, or robber baron, RICO don, of contrary honor and integrity, etc.; for romance, a reluctant or exuberant suitor or love interest and attached sexual tension, ad nauseam.
Other archetypes and topos include stock, though not trite, per se, events, settings and milieus, complications and conflicts, and tones.
quote:* Commonplace (noun), prose, generally, and stage and screenplay script: "Commonplace is 'a composition which amplifies inherent evils' (originally described as an amplification of either a virtue or vice, but in practice more the latter). A preparation for the following two exercises, encomium and vituperation, the commonplace differed from these by taking up a general virtue or vice [Menippean satire], rather than the specific qualities of a single person [Jevanalean satire]. Subjects included gambling, theft, adultery, etc. Sometimes it took up the virtues/vices of specific kinds of persons; e.g., tyrants [Horatioan satire]. See also topics of invention (sometimes named the 'commonplaces') and proverbs, maxims, and sententia (all of which are sometimes referred to as 'commonplaces') (Gideon Burton, "Progymnasmata," Silva Rhetoricae, rheoric.byu.edu).
For literary arts, "archetypes" are personas who exemplify a social-moral condition set and topos of a commonplace's extended metaphor: allegory. For stock archetype examples out of central cast inventory, who represent commonplaces' topos, see "Stock Character," Wikipedia. Many more archetypes are extant and possible than are indexed there, too, one, of late a stock for noir, the femme fatale, masculist fatale, too; another for picaresque, the hooker with a heart of gold, or robber baron, RICO don, of contrary honor and integrity, etc.; for romance, a reluctant or exuberant suitor or love interest and attached sexual tension, ad nauseam.
Okay, so you're basically saying a topo is a topic or theme and an archetype is a character. Seems like "topic" or "subject" would work just as well, but whatever.
So now loop me back around to how that bears on the Piper, and my fragment?
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posted
The fragment provides too little given from which to project a creator's vision for adjustment considerations.
The Pied Piper topos -- consider the relevant social-moral theme-topic of a commonplace, what rhetorical topic message and moral are expressed about social and moral aptitude. A topos' subject or topic is of a traditional or conventional social-moral facet of the human condition part of extant and future literary culture.
"Topos," nonnumbered noun, singular or plural construction, a masculine inflection suffix "-os." The Death Horseman of the Apocalypse, Thanatos; the Worm Ourobouros.
For example, the Pied Piper original is about Hamelin townsfolk's mistreatment of children and the Piper leads them to moral truth discoveries or refusals of their own -- leads them toward adulthood's obligations and privileges acceptances and denials. Not per se malicious maltreatment and abuse of children, more so about parental and community social-moral indoctrination neglect.
Other Pied Piper interpretations bases portray blind obedience to immoral leadership: the Piper, the townsfolk, parents; a banana republic type, exchange one flawed leadership for another perhaps, likely worse leadership; message: better the devil you know than another substituted.
Pluralist Menippean satire would emphasize a self-governance social-moral maturation process. Initial blind obedience that transforms to common good and self-responsible social-moral obedience discipline, develop personal moral truth discovery and subsequent wholehearted, adopted self-responsible adjustment, in other words.
Peter, say, leads others into moral peril. He realizes his responsible duty to mitigate moral harm and show others to their common good contributions likewise. If he does, more power on him himself; others, then their whatever is on them.
posted
This version is currently helping people understand themselves and what they desire, but he's guilty over past misdeeds, one of whom comes back to find him.
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Your fragment reminds me a bit of Gaiman's Harlequin short story (or was that stories... I seem to remember two, but might be imagining things due to cholesterol overload and family fatigue).
Anyway, part of what makes that story work is the gradual discovery of Harlequin's nature; and the way Gaiman's language (in particular the descriptions and reported thoughts) echoes and amplifies this nature. I recall reading on because I wanted to know, not so much what would happen next, but because I was curious about the main character's secret... Does your Piper have a secret – aside from his magic flute? And will it be revealed? (BTW, whatever happened to all those children...?)
I'm not yet intrigued by these lines, but interested enough to read the whole piece. I can't do a full edit (still writing website copy -aaaargh!), but happy to offer reader reaction within the week. Do send it through if that would be helpful.
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quote:Originally posted by MerlionEmrys: This version is currently helping people understand themselves and what they desire, but he's guilty over past misdeeds, one of whom comes back to find him.
W. Somerset Maugham, 1944, The Razor's Edge is a Pied Piper saga about an individual who wants to help lead others to know themselves, a novel about self-pride's hubris. The outcome for Larry Darrell of the moral truth discovery contest will not be spoiled here, though entails an exquisite, complete, unequivocal, and irrevocable maturation dramatic pivot end.
For past deeds come back to revisit? The sleeper classic motion picture, The Darjeeling Limited, 2007, as well a Pied Piper saga. Three Pied Piper brothers lead each other a raucous sibling pecking order rivalry personal discovery journey. How dear they hold onto Dad's baggage . . . More than a few viewers miss the sublime, profound significances of the final scenes; reversal, anagnorisis, transpires without revelation, peripeteia, setup entrainment. Artful, hilarious.
quote:Originally posted by WarrenB: (BTW, whatever happened to all those children...?)
Might the Pied Piper be a metaphor for adulthood's appeals and obligations, heartaches and glories? They grew up, come flood or drought, for good or ill or indifference. Or maybe a Peter Pan, refuse maturation growth metaphor? Both, each child and reader, hearer, viewer to each's own? Allegory.
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Dull as dishwater. Yes, you introduce a character and gift him a magic flute. Is it Peter or the flute which initiates the magic? There is a possible place to start, not some sleezy jazz dive.
Find where the real story starts and ask yourself, "What does the reader need to know to understand what's happening?" Then start your narrative there. Give the reader the information they need and then go, full steam ahead, and damn the torpedoes. This will give you a first draft to work on.
quote:Originally posted by WarrenB: (BTW, whatever happened to all those children...?)
Might the Pied Piper be a metaphor for adulthood's appeals and obligations, heartaches and glories? They grew up, come flood or drought, for good or ill or indifference. Or maybe a Peter Pan, refuse maturation growth metaphor? Both, each child and reader, hearer, viewer to each's own? Allegory.
Having reviewed the story already, this is an afterthought picking up on part of extrinsic's idea - and adding to my feedback:
The emotional heart of the story does lie in childhood. Specifically, childhood faith betrayed; and the dreams we cling to regardless of contrary experience - and of their betrayal. There's also subtext around avoidance of responsibility for one's own life and the consequences of one's actions. So, the Peter Pan allusion could be apt. As is the issue of coming to terms with the weight of adult responsibility; and the burden of guilt.
(MerlionEmrys: Perhaps the child does have to die for Peter to grow up? Up to you, of course! I'm a sucker for a happy ending, but this seems to call for something else... There's depths there that could make the story really powerful if you allowed it a touch more darkness.)
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quote: Find where the real story starts and ask yourself, "What does the reader need to know to understand what's happening?"
I hear what you're saying, but for some stories, sometimes, the reader needs to be presented with some stuff to understand what's happening and then the "real story" starts (although I consider it all part of the real story.)
That's one of the problems inherent in trying to critique a small portion of a story without full context.
I'm not set in stone yet, but I have checked in my mind to see if it seems like this should start somewhere else...and so far, it doesn't.
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quote: The emotional heart of the story does lie in childhood. Specifically, childhood faith betrayed; and the dreams we cling to regardless of contrary experience - and of their betrayal. There's also subtext around avoidance of responsibility for one's own life and the consequences of one's actions. So, the Peter Pan allusion could be apt. As is the issue of coming to terms with the weight of adult responsibility; and the burden of guilt.
(MerlionEmrys: Perhaps the child does have to die for Peter to grow up? Up to you, of course! I'm a sucker for a happy ending, but this seems to call for something else... There's depths there that could make the story really powerful if you allowed it a touch more darkness.)
If there is a growing-up-related subtext, it wasn't put there on purpose. I see this as more or less straightforward redemption stuff. Peter very much takes responsibility.
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The reader doesn’t have full context within which to make a value judgement. They see what's on the page and,if it confuses them or they don't like it, they'll shut the cover.
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Yep. Which is why I don't want to start it where you'd probably say I should, for that very reason. Context must be created. I know you believe every story should always start wherever the character begins moving forward, but sometimes that will leave the reader confused.
Of course, chances are regardless of publication methods this, as a short story, would never be between covers on its own. It'd be in an anthology or a magazine that the person has already purchased or has free access too. And I known from personal experience that slush readers don't always make their decisions based on only 13 lines.
I write stories, entire stories, not 13 line fragments.
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Of the several MerlionEmerys creations I have assayed to appreciate, none to date, irrespective of piece or whole, apropos of whatever, offer me a nucleation site around which to accrete, a sense of a center, an anchor, a nexus, a plot structure's piecemeal components or whole realization, a start of an action's single or several movements toward a completed action. Try as I have to locate a historicist comparable, a text, a movement, a school of thought, an era, a seminal inception, a mannerism, an aesthetic, a canon, a social function, none of equal compare readily come to mind.
Closest, perhaps, is James Joyce protégé and sojourner himself Samuel Beckett's stage play "Waiting for Godot," 1953. Martin Esslin locates the play within "The Theatre of the Absurd" for its existentialist absurdities per Søren Kierkegaard, that, whether the cosmos offers order or chaos or both or other, human existence is without inherent meaning distinction due to human perceptual limitations, hence, an utter absurdity of existences' intrinsic purposes. (Saylor hosted PDF.)
Insensible, purposeless, goal-less, directionless, dependent upon and refusal of others' capricious leadership absurdity abounds. Not per se the chaotic life absurdities of mayhem and strife's perpetual episodic barrages, as in the sleight of hand prestidigitation of superficial dramatic movement acrobatics of melodrama, the utter nothing of substance transpires or matters that is at root what "Waiting for Godot" expresses.
Much Ado About Nothing, Shakespeare, Seinfeld, purportedly about nothing, about self-absorbed personas who lead meaningless lives, and yet the "nothing" of those about nihilism's pessimistic advocacy for values and beliefs are about nothing and existence is insensate and pointless. That sapience's moral aptitudes are about nothing, yet an open secret the contrary is valid as well, if not an open secret subtext of greater substance. Huh, then Ernest Hemingway's "A Clean, Well-Lighted Place," too. "Our nada who art in nada." Moral aptitude sensory deprivation!?
Meantime, existence's conspicuous, trite activities of daily living and slights and injuries with which to be trifled preoccupy existence from onset to bitter outcome end, Naturalism and nihilism existential Absurdism. Unoriginal originality!? This is everyday real-world real life in all its warts and sores, irrespective of "Abyss Phone Home" appended fantastic motif or otherwise. Thank Providence, though, for literature that counter-prevails and seeks the personal, true, if open secret moral truth discovery purpose of human existence. (Turkey City Lexicon – A Primer for SF Workshops," Edited by Lewis Shiner, Second Edition by Bruce Sterling, SFWA hosted.)
However, nihilism appeals to those who are born into a pure state of Nature and never apprehend, refuse sapience apprehension, nor transcend toward another zenith or nadir or lateral node. If that were the case, that then is a narrative destination: proof nihilism is humanity's true Nature and persistent extant existence. Aware, though, sophist nihilism is a congruent opposite irony of example self-exclusion from the species' graces.
quote:I write stories, entire stories, not 13 line fragments.
But, my dear chap, all stories, regardless of type, genre, meaning, length or any other box you care to deposit them into, by definition, start with at least 13 lines. But probably not Haiku.
That said, you can write any damn way you please using any damn structure you like. No one will probably read past the first paragraph, but you'll have written what you wanted to. Good for you.
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Please don't be passive aggressive at me, or curse at me.
What I am saying is, all parts of the story serve the story. I sense sometime that some seem to place the first 13 above all other parts of the story. My beginning, my middle and my end all serve the same purpose-the whole story. I'm not going to begin a story in a way that I feel doesn't serve the rest of the story just because a story must begin a certain way.
Believe it or not, some people do enjoy my stories. Ask Meredith. Ask Bruce Betheke or the folks at Pseudopod or Electric Spec or others who have bought them. Am I a household name? Of course not. But your constant assertions that no one will ever read more than the first paragraph of anything I write are just incorrect.
You have not wanted to read past the first paragraph, and that's fine. But you are YOU not the whole universe.
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quote:Originally posted by MerlionEmrys: I see this as more or less straightforward redemption stuff. [/QB]
Hmmm. Redemption is straightforward? I think that can be true of very simple narratives – maybe in the most archetypal fairytales. But once we start adding complexity, context, and nuances of personality and history, not so much.
Characters (like people) have their own interior narratives that contribute to or compete for expression in the main narrative thread. For me, a lot of the interest of fiction comes from this interplay of (often) subtextual stories about the story-world and from seeing how they interact and what they produce in that shared reality.
Looking for redemption is looking for a different 'ending', a different summing up, of one's own story. But – absent narcissism – there are always competing stories, with competing motivations, embodied in other characters. So the goalposts for redemption are not determined in the protagonist's head alone, they're negotiated – between the characters, and with the reader (who is also the ultimate judge of whether or not it's achieved).
But, back to the story and why I point to the theme of maturation:
Peter is trying to take responsibility, and he wants forgiveness, and redemption. The question of what it would mean to really 'take responsibility' is a big one. It requires changing not just his story, but also those of the people whose lives he affected. For me, this is related to maturation/stepping into adulthood – seeing, accepting and dealing with the consequences of our choices.
The second character (who does not appear in this fragment) – the one that I'm actually more interested in – has spent his life hunting a dream. He's never found a way to take any responsibility for what happened after his encounter with the Piper. Again, that's where I get the maturation theme: thwarted in character 2; incomplete in character 1; and their meeting in the present, an opportunity to redeem both, or one, or neither – depending on what feels true to you.
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I was NOT cussing or cursing you. Nor am I ever passive/aggressive. Passive is not my nature,and I reserve my aggression for people who could best benefit from my instruction.
As for the luminaries you've mentioned who like your work. Never heard of them.
quote: Hmmm. Redemption is straightforward? I think that can be true of very simple narratives – maybe in the most archetypal fairytales. But once we start adding complexity, context, and nuances of personality and history, not so much.
I just meant that I intended this as a redemption story, that that is the only element that I consciously put into the piece. People will of course draw their own conclusions and subtexts, as with anything, and everything you say in your post is intelligent and valid. I'm just saying, I did not intend and do not personally see any Peter Pan/growing up/maturity type subtext, nor do I intend to develop any in revisions. Peter very much wants to take responsibility for his misdeeds and is a fully adult character, just by the time he came to that conclusion, he had no reason to think he'd be able to do it directly, as the ones he'd wronged were long dead (as far as he knew.)
Willy is obsessed, and it is with something from his childhood, so I suppose you could see some of that sort of thing in him, but my focus is on the obsession itself, and the breaking of a promise, regardless of when it happend. As I see it, he has nothing to take responsibility for-he did no wrong.
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One of a thirteen lines' subtler and sublime challenges asks for setup of a whole action, enmeshed among other existents of event, setting, and character and discourse introductions.
Roughly one hundred thirty words of a thirty-three hundred word narrative: one-twenty-fifth of the whole. Ample real estate for an initial pivot setup of an emotional strength and clarity merged into other criteria, likely an incomplete setup, though initiates what true exposition does -- introduces an outset: "a setting forth of the meaning or purpose (as of a writing)" (Webster's).
Other metagenre label the "setting forth" facet topic sentence, thesis statement, claim asserted, for the scientific method, purpose, from which a hypothesis is drawn. Prose? A cornucopia from which to choose though similar design. Topos provides clues: "a traditional or conventional literary or rhetorical theme or topic" (Webster's).
Though as generic as a definition comes, a topos setup intimates such an exposition facet, or strong implication or outright declaration. A topos' basic template is An individual and [----] and boilerplate establishes complication-conflict motivation-risk, theme and rhetorical topic in a form of an action's sequenced movement together.
An individual and nature. An individual and society. An individual and the gods or government. An individual and alienation. An individual and personal relationships. An individual and initiation. An individual and vocation. An individual and the self. An individual and time. An individual and death. And narrow and narrower defined An individual and ---- subsets thereof.
Is Peter's topos theme an individual and time? The past revisits?
Is William's likewise time? Though a now-future visitation that wants reconciliation of a past?
Now is the time for all good folk to come to the aid of mutual good? Amends for the past? Forgiveness? Self-reconciliation for earlier life indiscretions, trespasses, and as well responsible adult accommodations for misapprehensions and trespasses?
When I was a child, I spoke, thought, reasoned, argued, negotiated, refused, denied, blamed, lied, trespassed, sinned, believed, knew, did, behaved, harmed, hurt, felt as a child. When I became an adult, I put away childish things, yet cherished childlike brightness, liveliness, and wonderment. (Paraphrased, 1 Corinthians 13:11)
Or nihilism or proactivism or both and more. Commercial mainstream genre's utter noble hero versus utter ignoble nemesis or villain poses a proactivist and a nihilist in contention, is a both and more drama category, and about as common as seawater.
The antagonism facet of antagonism, causation, and tension, ACT, wants lively contention from outset through to outcome, and is as bicarbonate and muriatic acid: CHNaO₃ + H₂O:HCl = NaCl + lively CO₂ + H₂O + Heat. From daily bread's leaven to robust boil or explosive discharge -- warm saltwater and carbon dioxide gas. Each substance unequivocally, irrevocably transforms each the other.
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Not enough enticement promise of a thirteen lines for worth the effort. Worthwhile pages to read before I sleep.
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And of course just doing it to help somebody is out of the question.
I have considerable affection and respect for you, but it blows my mind that you'll write page-long essays on 13 lines but won't do a basic crit on a whole story...with actual context to work with. For me, that would be a far more useful application of the time you use on these drawn out incomprehensible analyses in my threads. And I'd happily return the favor, but since you basically never post your work, I can't.
But, as always, each to their own and each in their own way. I'll take what I can get.
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Hatrack's thirteen lines principle is several-fold though number one is engage readers to read further. Nothing about it is for publication distribution purposes; that is, not a publication to the public for approbation site.
Refusals and justifications that a start need not do much because things start movement soon and pick up later, at least by an end something of substance transpires, do not accord Hatrack's principles.
I have been the butt of many literary larks, published and otherwise. I will be again, no doubt. However, incept clues of such sort many anymore.
I have less time now for "help" on a project that is not even trying to help itself. Give me thirteen lines that promises fulfillment from the outset or I am shut out.
As to what value my "essays" hold for you, as you will. Those are my works and for my edification and shared if anyone would locate substance that appeals to them and their craft growth, as they will, and for lively discussions thereof to yet further our edification further. Consciousness of self and -- and -- consciousness of others. See H.P. Grice, "Cooperation Principle."
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I'm responding to this only because I dislike being misunderstood and having words put in my mouth.
quote: Refusals and justifications that a start need not do much because things start movement soon and pick up later,
I didn't say that. I said, speaking specifically to Grumpy, that I didn't start this story where he probably would have (where I figure he'd perceive the character's "movement" to begin), because I feel that some things need to be established at the beginning before getting to that.
quote: do not accord Hatrack's principles.
I really, really want to respond to this by going into all the various things that many people here do that are, on paper, against Hatrack's principles, but I'm trying to get out of old habits.
quote: I have less time now for "help" on a project that is not even trying to help itself. Give me thirteen lines that promises fulfillment from the outset or I am shut out.
The project I most want help with is the story. Why do you think all of my posts say "comments on the 13 good, full reads better?"
Also, again you seem to be assuming based on what I said to Grumpy that I don't want to "help" these 13 lines. Well, So far I've had four responses to them-Emma's and Warren's were positive, Grumpy's I responded to and seems to be what you're talking about, and yours if I understood it was basically just saying you're not engaged-and I've seen you be engaged like maybe three times in all the years I've known you, so no big surprise there.
Just because I seek advice doesn't mean I'm going to take all-or really, any-of it. And just because I don't take it, doesn't-in itself-mean I don't appreciate it. You usually seem to understand the fact that people have different (valid) opinions, but sometimes you slip. Like now.
But you often ask questions about what goes on later in a story, as you did here...from now on just assume my response to any such is "read it and find out."
Edit: I am now done doing anything in this thread but directly discussing the story it's about.
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Three other principles, policies, actually, of Hatrack and workshops in general are all-inclusive narrative type, craft focus, and self-selection. Another Hatrack principle of note is, if a fragment is offered for critique, is a mutual expectation of craft commentary response, albeit often weighted more to what doesn't work than does for a given reader.
Very little, if anything, works for me for the given fragment, except for a projected wish whoever sooner obtains a larger-than-life life transformative upset.
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MerlionEmrys, you’re missing the point. It’s not about an isolated fragment, it’s not about character dramatic movement, it’s not even about story/character/plot development. It’s about engaging with a reader, any reader.
You may be quite happy for your stories to be the jetsam in some anthology people read simply because they found it lying there, washed up on the proverbial beach. I’m not. I, and most writers I know (even some here), want more than that. They have something to say, and they want people to hear it. They want lots of people to hear it.
So, they learn the crafts and skills they need to know in order to ‘play the game’. And in doing so reach hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people, instead of a few hundreds.
It might be your story but, if you want other people to read it you have to write a story for them, not yourself. I don’t want to read any of your submissions in their entirety because, based on the opening few words I’ve read here, I imagine I will find them poorly written, trite and boring.
And your obvious rebuttal will be, “How can you know that unless you read the whole story?”
And my response is, “I have no time to waste reading stuff that doesn’t grab me from the first word.” That’s how I choose books to read. It is a rule that generally serves me well. But, sometimes, it lets me down. Let’s just say that Melville’s Moby Dick is a turgid read. But does have the occasional pearler of a phrase: “From Hell’s heart I stab at thee . . ..”
quote: And my response is, “I have no time to waste reading stuff that doesn’t grab me from the first word.” That’s how I choose books to read. It is a rule that generally serves me well.
Okay, that's great. And if that means you never read all of any of my stories, no problem. It's not something I can even begin to relate to(almost nothing I've ever seen or read has grabbed me from the first word, at least I don't think in the sense you mean), but I also can't relate to the fact that some people willingly eat peas and/or watch football, so no biggy.
Where I start having problems is when you 1) act as if what you describe above is also how either 1a) everyone or 2b) the overwhelming majority/anyone who matters operates and that 2) if I don't change my writing to suite your tastes it means I will, without fail have everything I ever write
quote: be the jetsam in some anthology people read simply because they found it lying there, washed up on the proverbial beach.
I would also mention the harsh reality that most aspiring writers never even achieve that. I've sold about 8 or 10 stories over the years, none of them anything major, but a couple at a semi-pro level to editors who are SFWA members and such. And again, most never even do that. And almost none, comparatively speaking, do what you speak of and reach hundreds of thousands or millions of readers including the people I've known here over the years that follow all the "rules". Most articles and interviews I've seen with pro writers and editors stress the fact that many many rejections have nothing to do with the "quality" of a piece of work, they simply don't fit that moment, or the space available. There's a lot more aspiring writers-at all skill levels-then there are "spots" for Stephen King's and Suzanne Collinses and a great many of the ones that do make it write what they want to write and don't slavishly follow ANYTHING The "game" you speak of is, for all intents and purposes, ultimately, very nearly one of chance. The right thing getting on the right desk at the right moment. There is no secret formula.
You will of course almost certainly not believe any of that, and that is fine. My only real point in any of this is: You opinions are not those of everyone and your repeated assertions that NO ONE could EVER POSSIBLY enjoy anything I write are not factual statements.
Am I making a living off my stories? Nope. But as far as I know, neither is anyone else posting here right now and I can think of maybe one or two who have been on Hatrack that did go on to that or something close to it (I'm thinking of Mary Robinette Kowal (sp) and Aliette de Boddard.)
I would just appreciate it very much if you would either be a little more respectful (all the time) toward me, or if you simply never want me to respond to your posts, say so.
posted
Were you alluding to this? (from the original)
And his fingers they noticed were ever straying As if impatient to be playing Upon his pipe,
You were! I just found this:
And ere three shrill notes the pipe uttered,
Is those allusions obvious? It was way over my head -- comets have made closer approaches. But it was very gratifying once I saw it. Nice touch!
Was it a habit to touch his pipe? Or something that soothed him? Habit is about the least interesting choice to me, though I don't know where you might go with that.
And now "stopped in their tracks" is bothering me. You just mean stopped what they were doing, right? They stopped -- mid-motion, mid-sentence, mid-thought -- and listened.
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The "tracks" part of "stopped in their tracks" may not be the best fit for this. One thing I am going to do with this piece in revisions is try and make it a touch more visceral and immediate.
I do a fair amount of stories that are riffs off of legends, fairytales, songs and various other things, and I usually try to include a few near-direct references to the source material.
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posted
Dunno. All else aside, I can't buy the premise. If it's the flute playing at the club that entices them, he's not piping them to the venue, which is what the Piper did. All he's doing is pleasing the listener.
And if the club is filled because the ones who hear come back, and tell others to come because of the magic playing, isn't that what any skilled musician does?
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quote: Dunno. All else aside, I can't buy the premise. If it's the flute playing at the club that entices them, he's not piping them to the venue, which is what the Piper did. All he's doing is pleasing the listener.
And if the club is filled because the ones who hear come back, and tell others to come because of the magic playing, isn't that what any skilled musician does?
That is a good point. I do in fact address that, a little bit, in the next paragraph, but it might be worth considering doing a little flipping and bringing it into the first 13. For POV reasons it isn't a super detailed handling, but it is mentioned/implied that his playing causes passersby to come in, and I might try and see if I can make it a little more explicit.
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