posted
Hello Everyone; Well..., I finally got the nerve to post the First 13 lines of my Story...Hope you like the title. I am my worst critic and have probably re-read and edited it going on the one-hundredth time now---Glad to say it is nearly done. So.., do the First 13 lines catch your interests enough to want you to read more or does it need more work for a good hook? Any comments you have would be appreciated either by a posted reply or feel free to email me....Thanks to everyone. --Raymond John
CHAPTER ONE -IMMORTAL WAR-
Scattered through-out the rocky terrain are the butchered and tattered remains of the dead; In gross heaps they lay atop one another, smothered within stinking cesspools of black blood. Deep within the Darkened Lands of the Lower Heavens, the clangor of a great battle echoes menacingly on the humid air as it has for the previous fourteen days---a battle fought by Demi-God warriors and a race of malicious, lizard-skinned creatures---creatures spawned by Hell itself.
posted
1st: you've got minor mechanics problems. See Strunk & White online. (the first In should be lower case; through-out doesn't need a dash at least in US spelling).
I don't think this is too bad, although I don't like seeing gross things, so I don't like it. Somebody's apt to complain there's no POV character, and usually that would be me, but in this case I don't mind. (I think you'd better get to one fairly quickly, though.)
I don't like the "malicious, lizard-skinned creatures---creatures spawned by Hell itself." I'd rather find out for myself that they're malicious, rather than being told, and "spawned by hell" seems like a comic-book exaggeration.
But overall, the thing is that I'm not hooked. There's a battle between 2 groups I don't know about or sympathize with, and I don't have any burning questions about it to make me keep reading.
Right. This fragment reads closer to a screenplay than a short story (or novel). And by the way, how many words in the overall story?
I can tell you are setting up your milieu at the start, and there's nothing wrong doing that, but it's harder to do than starting with a character. Rather, consider showing us these scenes filtered through a character's eyes; then we'll be more engaged, possibly hooked.
Let's look closely at that second sentence. There are a few issues to address:
quote: Deep within the Darkened Lands of the Lower Heavens, the clangor of a great battle echoes menacingly on the humid air as it has for the previous fourteen days---a battle fought by Demi-God warriors and a race of malicious, lizard-skinned creatures---creatures spawned by Hell itself.
First, you've got a phrase set off by em dashes (which should be two hyphens, not three). If you take out that phrase, it reads like this:
Deep within the Darkened Lands of the Lower Heavens, the clangor of a great battle echoes menacingly on the humid air as it has for the previous fourteen days, creatures spawned by Hell itself.
This isn't what you mean, obviously. And I realize you didn't intend for that phrase to be set apart on its own, but that's exactly how we'll read it. How to fix it? Make it into two or more sentences. Or punctuate differently.
Next thing, let's look at this descripton:
quote: a battle fought by Demi-God warriors and a race of malicious, lizard-skinned creatures
I have no idea what a Demi-God warrior is or what it looks like. I mean, I have my own ideas of what demigods can look like, but it's probably not your idea. Secondly, on this point, what kind of creature with lizard skin? Do they look like lizards? If so, consider just calling them Lizards. Or, if they have a name for their race, call them that and work in the description another way.
Lastly, there are some serious sentence tense issues to address. Pick a tense and stick with it. Past tense is probably your best bet. "Echoes" looks like present tense to me; what you probably want is "echoed."
Anyway, you don't have to cram everything in on the first two sentences. And watch out for excessive use of adjectives... a few are okay; too many and we become overwhelmed.
Good luck.
HSO
[This message has been edited by HSO (edited May 28, 2005).]
posted
I like the response to my First 13 lines I've received so far so I thought I should respond with some answers pretty quick before more came in.
To wbriggs:
I've always known that there were some mechanical problems here and there and probably more than I would want to admit too. I do have Strunk and White's Elements of Style and Margaret Shertzer's Elements of Grammar. Just need to learn to apply what I've read in them LOL.
As far as a POV, I'm not really sure what to do. The story is being told as a story being told, not by a character in the story who had an actual account of any events happening. I guess this is called the 'Omniscient Narrator..?' or 'Third Person Point of View'. Are these two POV's the same?
In the beginning of my writing the story, I tossed around what POV would work and even thought of First Person Point of View, and I really liked the way it was moving along, but then I thought, 'How could I have gone to places that were somewhat private to other characters? How would this character have known what was going on in private? How would I know what was going on in their minds?'
There was no way I could use Objective POV (detached observer), even if I wanted to. I'm too descriptive a person even when I'm not writing my story. I'm always observant to everything around me.
Their is no character in my story who could account for everything. Because of events in the story, my Main Character for one being thrown from one world to the next, the characters he leaves behind can have no actual account to what happens next.
The Malicious Lizard Thing....that's pretty funny you bring that up....even while I was writing it, I struggled with it....I guess I knew from the start I was doing something wrong but couldn't put my finger on it....I even changed and reworded the paragraph at least a hundred times. For some reason I kept wanting to tell they were malicious instead of showing it. Your phrase: 'seems like a comic-book exaggeration'..., is funny too....that last sentence was put in there very recently within the last couple of weeks from an edit I was doing, and probably from my over-reading of comic books here lately. In the beginning of my writing the story, they never were 'spawned from Hell', for some reason I thought this would help reveal their maliciousness without having to tell about it.
hhhhhhmmmmm..., not hooked, eh? Ok....I think I know where I can fix some things....
To HSO:
How many words...., um well....I'm maybe three-quarters of the way done with the entire story. What I call my 'First' chapter is 126 pages at 24,659 words LOL. It used to be 21 chapters and realized if I kept going at that rate of chapters, I was sure to end up with over 50 chapters by the story's end. When I say first chapter, I mean literally the first chapter though because Its the very beginning of the story. I do plan on breaking it up some more but probably only making these first 126 pages maybe into 4 chapters. Oh, I almost forgot....that's not the entire page count for that first chapter LOL, so maybe it will be more than 4 chapters.
Before I forget, I really liked your breakdown of these First 13 lines.
Ok.., I'm sure I can rearrange the scene and filter it through the main characters eyes. I purposely left the main character out of the beginning because I wanted to bring him into the scene kinda mysteriously...hide his features for one, hide his prowess in battle until it was necessary to bring it forth which, once he is introduced, happens rather quickly. I do know what I can do to rearrange this.
At one time I had a name for these Lizards (I called them Garnes) for no other reason than not having a better idea of what to call them. I do have an animal encyclopedia with reptiles in it and it gives a lot of scientific names....I'm sure I could play on one of these words. They are man-like in stature only....walk upright when they want.
I'm glad you pointed out the Demi-God Warrior thing and not knowing what my idea of what a Demi-God Warrior looks like. I can fix that easily too. Point out just who they are in the beginning....
Ok now, tense....I did write it purposely in the present-tense. I wanted to show that what was happening was happening right then. When you are saying that I should write it in the past-tense, is it because you believe that writing in present-tense is a mistake? I re-read the First 13 lines again and again and I'm not quite sure where you are picking up on there being more than one tense. Again though, If you really believe that writing it in past-tense would be better for the story, I can change it.....That would be rather difficult and take some time, but I could do it.
Thanks again and I will keep you notified of changes.
posted
If you have a reason for using present tense, so be it. Past tense is easier to read for some reason. We are used to reading stories that are written in past tense. But that doesn't mean you can't write in present. There's a topic in Open Discussions about writing in First Person Present Tense. I think it's Christine's and titled "Why! Why! Why!" or something close to that. We've pretty much beaten that topic to death. Give it a once over if you have the time.
One more thing: Don't change anything just yet based on our feedback. Give it time to sink in; make sure you agree with any change you make. In other words, don't try to please us (we see this happen a lot here). We could be wrong; we are certainly biased without intending it.
quote:I wanted to show that what was happening was happening right then.
Exactly. It was happening right then. That's why it would (probably) be better in past tense. Ditto HSO's suggestion to look at the other thread: www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/001919.html . Actually, that thread is about first person present tense, but it has a lot of discussion about both. You can search for other present tense topics as well. Basically, you need to be aware that, for most readers, present tense does NOT give a sense of immediacy; on the contrary, it gives a sense of timelessness and unreality. That makes it a useful tool, for those occasions when you want that effect.
Posts: 932 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
When you post, your wording is free, and though you do have some grammatical faults, it all flows pretty much smoothly.
The fragment posted is contorted and tries far too hard. Don't use so many adjective. Don't. It is a very bad idea. Don't try to make something real by describing it on a grand scale. The only way to make that work is to have it supported by specific examples and specific experience; humans do not care about numbers or generalites. They care about humans and about life.
posted
It wasn't hard at all to take anyone's suggestions. After reading them I can see where I can make some changes to the story to make it flow better, which is why I posted my First 13 lines to begin with. I've never had anyone outside a few friends read it, and all they read was a rough draft and said that it was a good story and that they would like to read the finished product. One friend in particular used to take one of the note-pads it was written on to school and read it on her free time. She offered no critique, but said she really liked the story even though it wasn't a story she would particularly have read. That was a boost of confidence back then that I needed and one of the reasons today that I keep trying to finish it. So please, keep the responses coming; I'm far from being perfect and need whatever I can get to give me that added boost to keep writing. --Raymond John
By the way.., noticed a mistake in the Title. It should be: Eclipse in the Shadows of the Mind
posted
Well, I don't trust my friends or family to give honest feedback -- they mean well, but they don't want to hurt my feelings. I do trust the writer friends I've made here on Hatrack, because they are not shy about telling me what's wrong with my stories. I respect that a lot.
And I've just about got my wife to give me proper feedback on a story. Still, she's biased, and she gets me -- understands my quirks, sense of humor, what I like and don't like, etc.
Anyway, don't look for critiques from friends. You'll do much better here if you want truthful feedback. Still, a critique is only an opinion -- you won't be able to please everyone.
posted
I think it's also valuable to have people who will tell you that you're wonderful and do some coddling. Sometimes you need that - it helps maintain your confidence so that you can go seeking more robust critiques without getting convinced that you're hopeless and should just give up.
Just don't mistake the two groups for each other and you'll be fine.
posted
(Since I didn't post a detailed, line by line analysis last time)
quote: Scattered through-out the rocky terrain are the butchered and tattered remains of the dead; In gross heaps they lay atop one another, smothered within stinking cesspools of black blood.
a) Unless I am wrong, "through-out" should be throughout. b) After the semicolon, the "In" should not be captilized c) This sentence has way too many adjectives. d) This sentence is not an effective opening; it tries too hard to paint an image of horror, while in reality, it overextends itself to the point of broken imagery.
quote:Deep within the Darkened Lands of the Lower Heavens, the clangor of a great battle echoes menacingly on the humid air as it has for the previous fourteen days---a battle fought by Demi-God warriors and a race of malicious, lizard-skinned creatures---creatures spawned by Hell itself.
Not a single noun has no adjective. The overdescription is, imo, excessive.
[This message has been edited by Phanto (edited May 29, 2005).]
posted
well, I think you're right, for the most part, but describing the overdescription as "pornographically obscene" IMO overextends itself to the point of broken imagery.
Posts: 1750 | Registered: Oct 2004
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