posted
Women, robed in white, with crescent moons tattooed in blue upon their brows, carried torches throughout the ruddy darkness of the hollow hill.
And Athenya led them.
A massive fire roared in the middle of the cave, its flames and smoke spitting and swirling upwards. In the midst of this heat and smoke, Athenya could see the serpentine tree roots that twisted through the stone and soil of the walls. From out of cracks, crevices and black tunnels the women walked, one behind the other. It was forbidden to talk at this time, so Athenya stayed silent as she led her line of women. Yet it was far from quiet inside her mind; she would make a speech to her sisters soon, a speech of much importance, and so she needed to ensure that she chose her words wisely.
[This message has been edited by GeorgeCousineau (edited May 23, 2005).]
[This message has been edited by GeorgeCousineau (edited May 23, 2005).]
posted
The good is that I can see a mostly clear setting. The bad is that first paragraph/sentence. It's a bit clumsy, and it would likely work better if it were two sentences, maybe three. You don't have to cram it all in one sentence. Also, I stumbled over "hollow hill". If it's a cave within a hill, just go with cave. I know what caves look like. Hollow hills I have a completely different picture in my mind that probably doesn't match yours. How big is the hill? I see hills as fairly small, hardly big enough to be any use when hollow. But I can see an entrance to a cave that's on a hill.
Reading on, Athenya appears to be leading a line of women. So, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to just say that right away. Something to consider.
Other than the promise of an "important" speech and the oddity of tattooed women, I don't see much of a hook. Consider letting us know precisely what to expect. If it then goes horribly wrong, all the better. But what does Athenya think is going to happen AFTER she gives her speech? Why is she here in the first place? What is her role among these white-robed, tattooed women? Tell us right away and I might be hooked.
Good luck.
[This message has been edited by HSO (edited May 22, 2005).]
posted
I have to agree, that first sentence needs to be broken up. It is very awkward as written. Other than that, I would read more to find out what happens.
Posts: 266 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Women, robed in white, with crescent moons tattooed in blue upon their brows, CARRIED [and with] torches [in their hands, moved silently] through[out] the ruddy darkness of the [hollow hill] CAVERN.[, and] Athenya [walked with] LED them.
Seriously though, complete agreement on the opening line, the "hollow hill" (I was surprised to find out it meant a cave), and Athenya going from walking with the women to leading a line of them (before, they didn't seem to be in lines).
I do tend to think that the content of this opening would be sufficiently intriguing if the prose had better clarity, though. It is true that any of my initial impressions of "hollow hill" would have hooked me more than setting this in an earthen walled cave, but that's because I tend to think of the best possible interpretations of things that I read (I know it doesn't seem this way in my critiques, but it's really true).
posted
Thanks very much for the helpful comments. I've rewritten that first sentence, which was indeed very awkward: hopefull I've sharpened it up. However, I've kept the description of the hollow hill, seeing as I've been inside of one before and this is how I remember it (apart from the tattooed women, of course!).
Posts: 5 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
I still feel that first sentence is awkward.
And I'll tell you why: It's all those bloody commas breaking up the flow. Consider this rewrite as only an example of letting that sentence flow.
First, you're original sentence (in case you edit your post again):
quote:Women, robed in white, with crescent moons tattooed in blue upon their brows, carried torches throughout the ruddy darkness of the hollow hill.
Now, another way of letting it flow:
Women in white robes carried torches throughout the ruddy darkness of the hollow hill.
***
Then you describe the tatoos and possibly what they mean (if it means they belong to a particular group, then say so).
Of course, there are a hundred ways to start this introduction, too. My personal pref would be to start with Athenya leading the women. Such as (with much liberty, please forgive my indulgence):
Athenya led her sisters through the ruddy darkness of the hollow hill. Wearing their ritual white robes, each woman silently carried a torch toward the massive fire in the middle of the cave. And all bore the mark of the [insert clan name here, if there is one] clan: a blue crescent moon tattooed upon their foreheads.
***
Now, my example is not any better than what you've written. It's only an example of cutting to the chase... Feel free to ignore it.
posted
Although I'm quite tempted to start with "Athenya led her sisters through the ruddy darkness of the hollow hill", I want the first sentence to retain a sense of mystery: unnamed women, of an unnamed clan, moving through a hollow hill. Their purpose will become more apparent as the chapter progresses, but at this point I'd quite like the reader to wonder: Who are they? What are they doing?
Point taken about the overuse of commas, though. I'll have to keep reworking it till it flows.
posted
Sorry, the term "hollow hill" itself is what confused me. I didn't think of it as meaning a hill had been tunnelled out. I thought that it meant either a hill in a hollow (a small valley among low mountains) or a hill with a hollow in the middle. I didn't have a problem with earthen tunnels under a hill except that I thought it a less intersting setting.
There can be no mystery in the abscense of information. Confusion isn't mystery, it's just confusion. Ignorance isn't mystery. Mystery is a function of [i]wanting[i] to know something but not knowing it. The current line gives us no reason to want to know anything in particular about these women, it's just too vague.
And trying to create "mystery" when you're about to dispell it in the next line is silly anyway.
posted
Survivor makes an excellent point about mystery. And this, I feel, goes hand-in-hand with suspense. Real suspense is having characters in situations where they are uncertain about the outcome. False suspense is deliberate withholding of information -- the most common error we make when learning our craft. And real mystery is similar, except that the characters themselves don't know what or why something is.
But, when a character does know, then the author should tell us. Athenya knows who they are, as she is leading them into the caves. And really, there's nothing mysterious in that passage. It is -- as Survivor put it -- just a lack of necessary information.
Now don't confuse mystery with intrigue (they are similar, but not). Intrigue is teasing us with just the right amount of information, but not giving it all away just yet. You're not really holding back, you are simply being subtle about what you release to the reader. Essentially, you state something [odd] as fact and then don't bother explaining it -- but you will explain it soon, usually very soon. Or we will see it explained by actions or dialogue. Something. It's a slow reveal technique, and it's incredibly difficult to pull off well (so I personally avoid doing it). It's all about the right amount of exposition. Too much, and we get bored and want to see some action. Not enough, and we don't believe in what we are reading.
You will lose nothing by telling us the clan name, and you will gain loads of our trust and belief if you do tell us right away. Because then we have something to identify with. "Ah, these women are a sisterhood. I can relate to this. Now... why exactly are they important?" That's the question I would ask, if I were interested enough. Athenya is going to make those women important. So, don't lose our belief in your story by holding this stuff back. Be honest with us and we'll keep reading.
posted
Showing mysterious strangers is best done through another POV watching them.
Ie Bill sat the tree braches watching the line of white robed women pass beneath him. He knew nothing about them, save that when one had looked up at him she bore a blue tattoo of a moon...
In this case since your working with introducing Athenya as the POV it would be best not to withold important information. Although their physical description can be gleened over time a bit her and bit there. It doesn't have to be dumped at once.
posted
Think of a story as a window. If it's crystal clear, I can see what's going on on the other side, and if it's interesting, I'll keep watching. If the window's so dirty I can't see -- hey, is that a woman in a white robe, or a lamppost ? -- it's wearisome and frustrating. But unlike in an ordinary house, this is a window that I can set aside in favor of a clean one -- by picking up another story.
Posts: 2830 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
I just wanted to chime in that I think the hollow hill works fine. I've seen it used for tombs, for a passage to Faerie, and as a cave, so it didn't confuse me here.
The revised version grabs my attention sufficiently that I would read further. I was only stopped by "a speech of much importance," which read to me as the author telegraphing something is about to happen. I think if you take that phrase out, you are left with a sentence that tells us her mind is unquiet, she has a speech to give, and she must choose her words wisely. All of which implies to me some unease and the potential for conflict. You can show how important the speech is by the reactions of her audience.
posted
The one thing that disrupts my thoughts with the term "hollow hill" is that it's been done before, by Mary Stewart in her series on King Arthur. It gives me the feeling of: "Yeah, yeah, I've read it before." ... now, one must keep in mind I love this genre, and I'd probably keep on reading because of it. Mists of Avalon is one of my all time favorite books. But I'm starting out with an inward sigh and the thought of "Yeah, and this had better get good fast...."
Just one challenge in using a well-oiled phrase like that.
In regards to the hill question, it occurs to me that my idea of a "hill" is probably what some people call "mountains", depending on where they come from. I don't know that you need to paint a picture of how big the hill is, but be aware that you'll get a variety of mental images depending on what geography the reader identifies with. I'm in the middle of the Cascade mountains, so "hill" is anything less than 10,000 feet.
posted
Hi, George. First, I'd like to say that I'm not real sure how good my suggestions will be. Since you've apparently edited the post rather than adding an edited version, I don't really know what your first two versions said.
That said, here are my suggestions for this version:
quote:Women, robed in white, with crescent moons tattooed in blue upon their brows, carried torches throughout the ruddy darkness of the hollow hill.
I also found the flow halting with all of the commas. I would suggest a change of word order, making it something like "Women, robed in white and with blue crescent moons tattooed upon their brows..." Even that seems just a way to push the info in. Perhaps the other suggestions were more clear on this.
Also, I would change "throughout" to "through". It's just hard to imagine torches being carried THROUGHOUT the darkness. That makes me think they're everywhere---all around (rather than in lines), possibly even floating up into the cavernous ceiling. I would also suggest dropping 'ruddy' if you're going to keep all the colors, or it's just too many adjectives.
I'm another one that doesn't exactly see the hollow hill. It seems less concise, but of course, that's your preference.
The transition between the first two paragraphs is difficult for me. "And Athenya led them." It just seems to float there, separated from the story. I like the idea to have "Athenya led the white-robed women...", working the tattoos in elsewhere. Also, it seems that if the women are coming from various cracks, crevices, and tunnels, Athenya is leading only one line and not all of the women.
quote:...its flames and smoke spitting and swirling upwards. In the midst of this heat and smoke
Flames and smoke, spitting and swirling, heat and smoke...I would like to see this cleared out a bit. Maybe "its flames spitting and swirling upwards. In the midst of the smoke..." I don't think the heat would have any effect on her seeing, whereas the smoke would. With a massive fire spitting and swirling, we know it's hot.
quote:Yet it was far from quiet inside her mind; she would make a speech to her sisters soon, a speech of much importance, and so she needed to ensure that she chose her words wisely.
This seems an important sentence. It's great, except I would leave out 'so'. It's merely filler that dilutes the flow and meaning.
Thanks for the opportunity to share.
[This message has been edited by Ahavah (edited May 25, 2005).]
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? -- it's wearisome and frustrating. But unlike in an ordinary house, this is a window that I can set aside in favor of a clean one -- by picking up another story.
