posted
I'm having doubts about the POV of the novel I'm working on. I'm using first person/present tense for the majority of it but I'm worried that I'm not really pulling it off, especially the beginning, which is written in past tense and is supposed to transition to present by the end. It sounds self-conscious to me.
I could switch to 3PLO, but I like my POV character's voice later on in the story and I like the sense of coming full circle in the outline I've got right now. I'm afraid 3PLO will diminish that feel.
So, I'm posting the first thirteen lines of two alternate beginnings. I only want comments on these fragments at the moment... I don't have much more in the way of a third person alternate chapter. Any and all thoughts are welcome.
Oh, and the genre is fantasy.
***
First person:
I see things more clearly now. The whole world filters through in startling rainbow clarity. I wish I could describe what led to this point better, but I'm not a very good storyteller. If Nicholas were here, I'd just ask him and he would tell you the most amazing story.
For me, the beginning is the hardest. Do I start by describing my parents and their hippie tendencies? No, too much sappy rhetoric. I could start with the stories my grandmother and mother read to me about knights and dragons. But no, there's too much childish idealism tied up in that. First crush? Good gosh, no. I'm already cringing. First "relationship"? No, though that's a better place than the others I've mentioned.
Third person:
Jennifer Keller felt the first nudge of apprehension as she watched her boyfriend, Greg, take his things from her closet and stuff them in his dufflebag. He wasn't her boyfriend anymore ... or lover, or partner or whatever she wanted to call it. When he finished, he hefted the bag onto his shoulder and looked at her.
He expected her to say something? She hadn't said anything before when he was yelling and crying. What made him think she would talk now, when it was obvious there was nothing left between them?
"You're not even going to try?" His voice had a ragged edge to it that annoyed Jenny and made her feel guilty even though she hadn't done anything wrong.
She didn't want to hurt him though. So, she kept quiet, trying to ignore the fear steadily creeping through her stomach.
[This message has been edited by Keeley (edited February 25, 2005).]
posted
I like the tone of both fragments, but I'm confused about what I'm looking at. Is the third person fragment connected to the first? Or are these two different fragments to give us an idea of how the styles mesh together in different sections of the novel? Or are these two diferent takes on a beginning? Sorry, I'm feeling daft.
Posts: 2022 | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I prefer the second one. Not because it is third person, but because it reads easier. I've found it takes me longer to get into the groove of reading present tense. In fact some books I have put down just because of the tense. The second one also launches straight into the story, while in the first one, the POV character seems to be unsure of telling the story at all.
Posts: 579 | Registered: Mar 2004
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These openings feel like two different stories to me and I have no idea how to compare them. I cringe when I hear the words "first person present tense" because to me a person can only tell a story about themselves within a frame or by writing it down, which means the action is certainly not present. Of course, in this case the person is musing in the present about things that happened in the past and that's ok...but not interesting. The first person version of this opening states that the narrator is not a storyteller and somehow that sticks with me. I almost feel like the author, not the character, is making an excuse for shoddy storytelling. Also, she rambles on and on about things that have no context and are not engaging.
Now, the second version is better. We start in the midst of conflict and even though I don't know the exact circumstances I am curious and want to know more. Obviously, I am not as deeply entranced in Jennifer's mind but it doesn't matter. I care about her more anyway.
That said, the two openings are simply different. The first starts in musings, the second with action. I'm not sure if it's fair to even compare them but I gave you the best reacionts I was able.
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NewsBys: She feels more comfortable with action than words, so that's why the beginning sounds hesitant. She's also more comfortable with action than emotion, but that's something that comes out inside the story.
Christine: Yeah, it's not much of a comparison. HSO's was better in that sense.
I just get the feeling like I'm staying in my POV char's thoughts too long in the first person version I have now. When I switch to action in the first person version I've been working on, it's snappier, but I haven't seen anything so far that wouldn't work just as well in 3PLO.
As for the present tense, there are certain elements my POV can't discuss with her audience until the end of the story. I thought a present tense, stream of consciousness kind of tale would get around that problem, but it's starting to sound like a conceit (especially while I was typing this post).
I think I'll change the novel over to 3PLO. I'm more comfortable with it and I think it'll strengthen the story.
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It's perfectly legitimate for a first-person narrator to restrict the information they reveal to whatever they knew at the time of the action. Just because they are (presumably) writing it at a later time doesn't mean that they story has to be told from that viewpoint, any more than a 3rd-person account has to be omniscient just because the author knows all. I applaud your decision to change to 3PL.
Posts: 932 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
I like the second one much better. But do you really need to come out and say "he wasn't her boyfriend anymore"? I think we can get that from their actions and dialogue...
Posts: 21 | Registered: Feb 2005
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I liked the second one better, and I agree with 77chevy.
I was also wondering if it might be more effective to use only Jenny's nickname in the first sentence. Using her full name gives a little more distance from the situation.
This is a personal preference, but I feel like even in third person, a character should have only one main tag. If her full name comes out on its own later, cool, but if you're going to refer to her as "Jenny" for the rest of your story, calling her first by her full name broadcasts the presence of an uninvolved narrator like few other techniques.
If the narrator isn't a character in the story, it seems like it should be kept as invisible as possible. Otherwise, it continually reminds the reader that they're sitting in their chair reading a story, and not caught up in the events.
posted
I can't decide very easily. You're second opening is good, but there is no way that beginning will be able to give you the structure you indicate in the first opening.
And that is a good first person opening. It places the character at the conclusion of the story, looking back at how she came to be there. Because the action of this story is largely emotional and mental, from what I can see of both versions, a well crafted first person could serve to give the progression of the story a perspective that you can't easily achieve with the more standard POV unless you cheat.
On the other hand, you are very right to be concerned that this sounds pretty self-conscious if that isn't your intent for the character. Also, because this narrator is looking back from a perspective where she already knows about the big surprise of your story, it could be a problem if you want to keep it a surprise for later. The fact that this is fantasy suggests that there is such a surprise and springing it properly is important.
Overall, the fact that this is a novel for the modern market tips the scale for me. First person stories work best for shorter works, for a variety of reasons, including the sort of dramatic structure you're building here. A novel in the modern market tends to be on the long side to successfully carry off in first person. The first person works, but I would want to have it be restricted a bit, perhaps just having a prologue and epilogue in first person, with the core of the book being more normal with only a hint of the first person narrator peeking through. That may or may not be a solution that works for you.
The 1st person is in present now, as a direct address to the reader, although I assume as you relate the history the character is looking back on, it will switch to past, which makes for better reading. The only thing really hampering the approach is the hesitancy of the narrator in her story telling skills, and which is a bit off-putting.
The 3RDL is the more dynamic opening, based on the scene described. It feels like it is setting up a very different sort of story, however.
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Ah, gotcha. I like Survivor's idea of cutting the first person sections into the third person. There is something immediate about the first paragraph of the first person opening. If you go that route, remember that your sections don't have to be the same length. If you kept the first paragraph and stopped after "For me, the beginning is the hardest." that'd be a good hook, I think. Page break and begin your third person section.
Might be a hokey idea, but it might also be more "literary".
posted
I like the first person better; I like how it opened differently and the different insight into the narrator's personality it gave as she chose what to start with and what she was dismissing. However it did seem a little slow to me. Consider starting with the second paragraph of it?
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You could do something with having the first person narrator be sufficiently different from "Jennifer Keller" that she could speak in the third person about her up until the climax of the story (when she would become the person she is now). This assumes a couple of things. First, clearly, it assumes that she is dramatically different from who she was back then. That seems clearly implied by your opening paragraph. Secondly, that change has to be the climax of the story.
Check out this little modification.
quote:I see things more clearly now....
For me, the beginning is the hardest. Do I start by...? No...hell no...No...I'll start with....
Jennifer Keller--the woman I was--felt....
Now you've split the POV character into two distinct people, and the story is about how one became the other. Structurally, it's more like a story with two different people that become one person. It's about her relationship to her past. I don't know if you want to do this, it just occured to me as a structure that might fill your needs in this story.
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Oooh! Yeah, unless there's a reason not too, (which I can't tell without reading the whole thing) do that. Then you get to have both.
Posts: 2022 | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Keeley – I initially liked the 3rd person opening better because it was easier to read and gave a clear sense of conflict and action. It also gave little details about the characters that immediately snagged my interest.
That said, I also like the 1st person opening. First person is difficult for me to read. I am a fast reader and first person forces me to slow down and pay attention to what the character is saying. It usually takes a few pages for me to adjust to that viewpoint but once I do, I always end up enjoying it. I feel that you have a good sense of the “voice” of your character and once I read it again, I found myself liking her. You did a good job communicating that there was a significant change between the person she was and the person she has become. I did find her insecurity about her writing ability a little jarring. It made me wonder whether you were talking about her or yourself.
I cannot say that one opening is better than the other. I guess that depends on your story. If the breakup with her boyfriend is not the catalyst that leads to her change then it might not be a good way to start the story. If your goal is to write a character story from the present looking back, the first opening would work well once it is tightened up a bit.
Some other Fantasy books that have successfully used first person (IMO) are: Kushiel’s Dart by Jacqueline Carey Merlin by Stephen Lawhead Queen of the Damned by Anne Rice (though she switches between 1st and 3rd person depending on which POV character she is using in that scene)
I always find it helpful to see how other successful writers have accomplished a task I am attempting so that is why I recommend checking those out. The Jacqueline Carey book is also about a female who has changed over the course of her life so you might find that one most helpful.
First person can be immensely enjoyable to read, especially for character stories. I personally cannot write it but I applaud your efforts!
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Wow! These are some really cool comments. Thank yous to everyone for their help. I really appreciate it.
As much as I like your suggestion, Survivor, I don't think it will work for my story. Can't go into much more detail, unfortunately. Let's just say I'm not sure the climax is as strong as it needs to be for your suggestion to work. It is strong though... may end up using your suggestion after all.
I'm going to stick with third person because, even in the first person version I wrote, her boyfriend's departure messes with her head and makes her more open to re-evaluating her life. It's also what opens the door to events which comprise the majority of the book. In looking at the two versions I've got so far, the third person one is stronger simply because of where it starts.
I could start at Greg's departure in the first person version, but Jenny at that point in time wasn't willing to look at anything very deeply. Jenny-from-the-future is more willing to do some self-examination, but that brings up the problem of self-consciousness again. It also divides the voices ("present" and past) more than I'd like.
I'm keeping the first person chapters just in case I change my mind.
TaShaJaRo, I'll see if I can get the books you've mentioned through my library. I stopped reading Rice's vampire books just before Queen of the Damned because... well, she depresses me. But the POV switches sound interesting from what you've described.
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Thank yous to everyone for their help. I really appreciate it.
