posted
Greetings everyone. I'm hoping someone here can help me find a perspective I'm not seeing, or show me a tool I might not know exists, or how to use one in a way I haven't thought of yet.
I'm looking for some ways of doing things.
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So... I'm not trying to write a book that covers every action my characters do. I'm aiming for a style similar to Brandon Sanderson and/or J. K. Rowling (Its been a while since I've read Orson Scott Card, but I've read a lot of his stuff. I can't remember his voice, more than the events and themes of his stories right now.)
And, while I'm creating my own voice, I'm aiming for the cut away, time passed, nothing important really happened so I'm not going to explain it all, now here's the important and good bits.
But, I've ran into a problem with a scene that I feel is a MUST for the book.
So, I've got two characters A and B. Character A is helping character B hide from the bad guys. Then the bad guys show up and character A has to run for their life, leaving character B hidden.
I feel its important that the readers be unsure whether character B is alive or dead, or caught or what. I feel its important that the readers be unsure of character B's fate.
Because, I'm killing character B. And I don't want to do a thing where I say something like, "Character A helped character B hide, and now this is happening..." And then have character A discover character B died. Because I feel the readers will feel I've broke a promise. Especially since character be is a beloved character, and thought to be the hero of the story. (Spoiler, character A is the hero.)
So, it's a little like what if Frodo died and Same had to carry on without him.
I can't just say Frodo died, or character B died. I feel I need to show the readers the dangerous moment.
Its also important for my story that everyone thinks character B is still alive for a while. Not just character A, but also the bad guys and stuff. Its complicated, and that's part of why I feel I must show the scene.
So, then it would seem the simple solution is to show the scene! Of course, if I feel I must show it, show it. And I want to.
However, I've written this scene probably 20 times now, maybe 60 if you count small revisions. And, every time I write it, it seems clunky. It seems like it wants to carry on forever, or there's not enough concrete detail, and if I give concrete details it seems like its too much information. I feel like the readers will then wonder why am I giving all this detail to what should be a simple scene of them hiding someone?
Oh, how do they die and no one knows it? They get shot in hiding. Its a fantasy novel with a medieval feel, and they're hiding in the forest. - If it were a modern-day setting, I could have character B hide in a closet and a machine gun sprays bullets into the room at character A. And then the readers can wonder if character B was hit or not. And when character B is found dead later, its sad but not a broken promise on my part as an author.
I'm not sure I've given enough information for you guys to help me or not, but I've certainly got the topic start and the ball rolling. - I'm tempted to post what I'm written, but there's the whole 13 lines thing here, and also what version of the 20 different version do I post? Especially when I think they're all terrible.
Everything else in my book seems to be rolling along wonderfully. I've got several chapters written that I love, and seem to be working great. Its just this one scene that I feel is necessary don't know what to do, since I can't figure out how to handle it.
posted
Two craft methods might occasion the block unstuck, both together: dramatic irony and tension segment sequences.
Dramatic irony is when one party is "in the know" and another party is not, and any point between. For example, that A flees the scene and hopes hidden B is safe occasions doubt. What, flee to save A's life and abandon B to fate? Craven at least. What if A leads the pursuit away -- bold? Only to realize the pursuers turned back, suggests, implies strongly enough B will be caught, probably killed? A continues to flee, hopes for the best, expects the worst, as will readers, though doubt persists, escalates even, whether B escapes or dies. Timely, judiciously later, A discovers B is dead when B's death revelation causes A a profound reversal: revelation and reversal complete dramatic units, in pieces, parts, parcels, and wholes.
That latter sequence is tension's setup, delay, and partial relief entrainment through dramatic irony development. Too little delayed, too soon relieved, tension falters; too long delayed, too late relieved, tension falters. When is the opportune occasion for the revelation? When the discovery matters most to A's situation. Meantime, A is in doubt though more so suspects B dead or hopes B lived. Cues B lived, also timely and judiciously given, counter certainty of death and keep tension and doubt open until unequivocal. Tension setup, relief delay, and relief, span pieces, parts, parcels, and wholes.
Posts: 6037 | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
First question: What is the POV for this story? First person? Close limited third person? Is it all on Character A's viewpoint? Or does Character B have POV chapters/scenes, too? (I'm assuming it's not only in B's POV because . . . well, he dies.)
If it's only in Character A's POV, then you can easily have A worry about leaving B in hiding, but realizing there's nothing else he could do. And then return to find the body and have a strong reaction to that. You haven't broken a promise to the reader because A couldn't have known this until he returns.
If it's multiple POV, then just write the scene the best you can right now and move on. This is a first draft. The purpose of the first draft is just to get the story down so you can fix it and polish it. It will need revision (trust me on that). You can fix the scene in the revisions.
Meantime, try to find a book by an author you like that handles a similar situation. You don't want to copy them exactly, but it could give you ideas about how to handle your scene. Off hand, the only one that comes to my mind is a science fiction story--MIRROR DANCE, by Lois McMaster Bujold. Not exactly the best place to pick up the Vorkosigan Saga series, but the main POV character of that series does die in that one. (Of course, being far-future science fiction, he doesn't stay dead, but . . . ) Can't say I remember the scene well, but I would trust LMB's handling of just about any kind of scene.
posted
This is a risky strategy: killing off a major character readers may have invested a lot in. I have heard of it being done, yet I have never seen such a manuscript. Good luck. From my position I think this requires the controlled use of selective viewpoints for maximum dramatic effect. The following is for demonstration purposes only and is not a recommendation.
Start in Abel’s viewpoint: ‘Abel’, fleeing the Black Hats intent on his destruction, is wounded (or marked in some manner which makes him ‘traceable’) in the process. Bumping into ‘Baker’, Abel manages to enlist his reluctant aid. As they evade their pursuers, Abel weakens to the point he can’t go on. Finding a place of concealment, Abel accepts Baker’s assurances he will find help and watches as he disappears into the woods.
Switch viewpoint to Baker. Replay last scene from Baker’s viewpoint as he walks off to find help. The sounds of hounds baying and horns blaring behind him cause Baker to pause and wonder, “Have they found him?” Does he turn around in a perhaps vain attempt to help, or push on, leaving Abel to his fate. Play this for all it’s worth. Finally giving in, Baker retraces his steps and comes upon the scene of Abel’s discovery.
Fight ensues.
Switch viewpoint to Abel. Fighting, and finally defeated, he dies.
Switch viewpoint to Baker. See the same scene through his viewpoint. Baker does whatever he needs to do next.
The point is, artful use of various viewpoints can keep all parties in doubt as to the outcome until the last possible moment. Craftily done, you can maximise tension and doubt to an almost unbearable level until a final resolution comes swiftly and decisively.
Just a quick thought which might help.
Phil.
PS. Just realised I got A and B mixed up. Sorry.
PPS. Thought I should mention that switching viewpoint within the same chapter, let alone scene, is a risky proposition.
Phil.
[ March 11, 2019, 01:42 AM: Message edited by: Grumpy old guy ]
Posts: 1937 | Registered: Sep 2012
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posted
Based on what you've said, it appears that you're thinking, primarily, in terms of making the reader follow the plot, and telling of the action in the scene in an interesting and exciting way.
But that's not our job. Readers are simple beasts. They aren't interested in detail that doesn't relate to what their protagonist is focused on in the moment called now. Thus, if the character runs, leaving the other one behind, and doesn't know what happened after s/he leaves, the reader has that same uncertainty. Yes, the protagonist may speculate on what happened. They may take steps to try to find out. But it is their story, not yours. So if it matters to them in the moment they call "now," it matters to the reader. If not, and you, as the narrator, step on stage to tell the reader about things the protagonist doesn't know you kill all illusion of reality.
Something to think about. Each sentence in the story should develop character, move the plot, or meaningfully set the scene. Hopefully, more than one of them at a time. But anything else: editorial insertions, backstory, history, etc, should be looked at, carefully, to be certain you're not stilling the scene-clock and killing what momentum the scene has developed.
Hope this helps.
Posts: 263 | Registered: Dec 2016
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posted
Just looked up that scene in MIRROR DANCE. There's the set-up required to get the character to that point. The actual death is only two paragraphs, encompassing just the details that character would notice ending with a cut-off internal thought. Then the chapter and the POV immediately shifts. Those will be different in your situation, but it still could be something you should look at to get an idea.
Posts: 4633 | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
Actually this is pretty common. Hero group is divided during battle. If anyone stays behind it is usually a death sentence. If the pov stays with the fleeing group/groups/individual. The fate of those left behind to hide or rear action is automatically unknown as to their fate. Only if you stay with the pov of the hidden/rear action and dish out their fate to the reader does the reader know their fate but the fleeing characters don't. The reader is now privy to knowledge the surviving protagonists don't have. The fleeing group continues to hope for the best all-the-while the reader knows the truth and what is to come when the main characters catch up with the readers knowledge. It just depends on how much you want to reveal. Both directions have their strength. Sometimes you can even start with what appears the fate of those who stayed behind and fool the reader into believing they met their fate, but later reveal a miraculous last-second save. But it has to make since to the reader or they will feel cheated in the end.
or you can just stay with the fleeing group leaving the reader in suspense as to the fate of those left behind. This is usually a cliffhanger and will need to be answered at some point.
posted
The several replies offer similar guidance. Unlike fragment responses, if several similar considerations of doesn't work insights, worth notice. Several similar craft guidance indicates maybe too common of a method or selection.
Maybe the givens want a fresh perspective.
A and B flee pursuit. B must hide. A continues flight. B is captured and killed.
When or does A realize B died? When does B die? When do readers realize B died, ideally, when A does?
For strongest dramatic effect, best practice is as close a narrative distance to B's death event, in person and at the closest now to when B dies.
Third person, limited, close or first person narrative point of view, in the latter, closest distance case. Third person, middle distance, selective omniscience and selective omnipresence next-most. Remote third person omniscience and omnipresence next-most. Third person detached least-most.
Maybe B hides and escapes, that A observes in real time, and, later, B is captured and killed in view of A? Or a pursuer later reports B's death in person, a messenger scene? Or A later comes upon B's remains? Each someway staged "onstage" for closest practical distance?
"Offstage. Events which occur other than onstage. Examples: reminiscence, narration, indirect quotation. Events which can only be inferred are the ultimate distance offstage.
"Onstage. Events which are shown directly to the reader, who becomes a real-time observer while the action takes place. Onstage events are more dramatic and the reader weights them more important than events offstage."
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