posted
When I'm writing the first draft I never think about word count, I'm trying to get it all out. So no, I think limiting yourself to a certain word count would be detrimental to the story.
In the second draft I see what will stay and what will go, like that extra character in the diner scene who takes up too much space. I check for plot, too. What happens and why and if it should happen or not. By then I've cut down 20% of useless stuff. By the time I'm finished revising and rewriting, my story should be as long as it needs to be in order for a reader not to drop dead of boredom in the third paragraph.
And I'm babbling. Sorry. Getting back to your post: I just write till the thing is done.
posted
I usually have a good idea of how long a story will be before I start. That factors into the decision of which story to work on when.
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posted
Stories certainly come in sizes and the size is apparant at the conception.
But size is not an exact word count.
I know from experience that when I write a novel its going to be about 75000 - 90000 words.
I do not aim for a word count. The story must carry itself forward and end where it has to end. Forcing a word count can make for a very disconnected story with stunted flow.
posted
With short stories, I just write until it's done.
My first shot at a novel turned into a novella.
Unlike (seemingly) the rest of the world, I have to add rather than subtract words. I'm still working to break out of technical writing mode, which tends to be spare.
That means for a novel, I'll have to set a goal for words and then pad as I go along. By 'pad' I mean add the flavor and description I'm not used to writing.
posted
If you are padding with description, you are probably doing it wrong.
Pad by making the story more complex. Add a vital subplot and weave it into your story.
You do probably need to add some description, but if you can pad a novella into a novel with description, its going to be a very dull novel with pretty descriptions.
posted
In the past, I've found my stories expand beyond their original targets. The one novel I completed to first draft is 200,000 words, and I have another with over 100,000 that's probably still missing at least 1/3 of the scenes. Short stories often expand in the same way. I'm a naturally wordy writer.
I've started getting better by being a bit more disciplined about planning what scenes I need, about allowing myself not to narrate all the "gaps" (if nothing significant happens for three days, I used to write about nothing significant happening; now I am learning to start the next chapter three days later and live with it). But I'm still a long way from being able to plan a whole book out, chapter by chapter, scene by scene, which I suspect is the only real way to know in advance how many words you're likely to end up writing.
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Marva- I have the same problem. But, I also do technical writing at work, so not too suprising. Too many years of eliminating every word that I can possible eliminate. For a lot of people in my field, this attitude goes over into everything. I told a joke at a presentation and my peer feedback seriously included "drop the jokes, they are unnecessary." But I was happy because everyone stayed awake at my presentation, which is quite an accomplishment. When I go back in my short stories and add description, it can take up a lot of words. Of course, my critiquers generally don't cal it padding, they say necessary. For example, I write that the scene takes place in a house and my reader wants to know something about the house- clean, dirty, big, small, rich, poor.
Posts: 303 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
I write until I'm finished, and I usually have long, complex stories in my head, so my problem is writing too much (not too much description, too much STORY). My current novel is the first of at least a trilogy (this is not the first novel I've ever written, but the first one I think has a serious chance of getting published and I'm going for it, full-tilt). I cut this one off at about 114,000 words, and have edited it back to about 112,000. It has a logical beginning, middle and end, with a good strong climax and some sub-plots (but not too many). The problem with this one was establishing the world - it's a fantasy, but a realistic fantasy, set in the real world as well as the magical world. The next one will explore the magical world a good bit more as well as driving the main plot forward.
posted
I usually have some length in mind when I start, usually based on what I plan to put into it. But then I usually say "between two thousand and three thousand words," rather than "twenty-five-hundred words," so it's not as precise as an estimate.
If somebody wants me to write something for them (yes, it's happened, but not with paying markets) and tells me it has to be, like, "six hundred words," or "one column," well, I can do that, too. But often as not it's by editing something down, or occasionally editing something up.
If I go over fifty thousand words, I usually figure I've got a novel on my hands.
posted
I write until I'm done, but I tend to be long winded. I spend a lot of tim on character development and most of my stuff is dialogue heavy. If the genre doesn't support the length, I find way to trim it. 120,000 words is fine for a fantasy novel, but not really good for a crime fiction novel. The only reason I'll make such cuts is as an unpublished author a publisher isn't going to want to publish such a thick book...
posted
It really depends on the writer. With my short stories I start with a definite idea of word count for the first draft (7000 – 10,000). This gives me a good idea of how much story can fit, and how “wordy” I can be for a given story..
I’ve only attempted one novel and I’m 20,000 words into it with a target of at least 110,000 and no more than 120,000 words for a first draft, with the final draft not much more than that. I find that having a word count target has certain advantages.
1) I keep an Excel log of how many words I write each day and my total word count to date. This gives me a goal, helps me keep my weekly work targets, and gives me an idea of how far along I am towards reaching my goal.
2) It gives me a good idea of where in the story I should be for the number of words I’ve got. For example, I was over 10,000 words into the novel and I still hadn’t introduced one of three major characters that is crucial to the central conflict in my novel. That might be OK if I was looking at a 200,000 word novel but not for one half that size.
3) I want to sell my work. I don’t want to write a story that is too long because I think I stand a better chance of selling something near 110,000 words than I do something over 200,000 words. Keeping my story and plot points within certain word count goals helps me to meet that goal, and I think it also helps me with pacing the story.
4) When I finish my story, I’ll be better able to judge what I need to do next. If I’m well under the goal, I may need to beef up a subplot or two. If I’m over my goal, I may need to do some trimming of the main narrative or go as far as eliminate a subplot.
posted
I guess I'm not a very organized writer comparitively. I write until I feel I'm done. Even though I've been known to cut out entire sub-plots and even some characters have been held off until the next book, I'm usually reasonably happy with the results.
As a matter of fact, for the first three drafts of my first book I never once looked at the word count. Nowadays I'm much more attentive to how wordy I'm being.
posted
Wow, I never thought of keeping an Excel log. Trying to write a certain amount a day would probably do wonders for me, (Gasp! I might actually FINISH something!) but to do that I'd probably also need to set up a time to write each day, which in the summer is very hard for me. I think it's hard for any student to actually rigidly schedule something in the summer. Or maybe it's just me. I might try that when I figure out my work and class schedule.
I've never been an organized person. In fact, I feel more comfortable some degree of disorganization. My desk is hideous, covered in junk. If I asked someone to find something among that pile of crap, they'd never find it. Chances are they'd get lost and I'd have to round up a search party for 'em. However, I know exactly where all my stuff is. This may also be why I never use a bookmark.
Anyway, back to the main subject, I've never been able to forecast how long something's going to be. I do know from the beginning if something's going to be a short story, novel, or piece of flash fiction, but otherwise I tend to not plan the page or word count. Too much organization for my taste.
posted
It seems to be an individual thing. No matter how many times I aim for a short story I think I only have one or two that come close to qualifying as such. Sometimes I try to force them to be what they started life as and after enough people say there's too much telling--becasue that's the easiest way to keep things short--I go back and revisit them and realize iot wanted to be a novel all along. SO essentially I think I'm saying I have learned to just write until its done without a word goal.
Posts: 71 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
On keeping track of what I'm doing...My current writing log---my methods for keeping track of what I'm doing have varied almost as much as how I write---just involves printing a monthly calendar page out of the Microsoft Works calendar, then writing down what I've worked on, what length-category it's intended to be (short story, novel, essay, whatever) and how many words, rounded off to the nearest zeros, I've written that day. If I'm writing / retyping a second draft, I write "second draft." If I'm just revising something in an existing file, I write "revisions to [title of story]" and don't bother with a word count.
I've tended to avoid using my computer to keep track of anything but the simplest of things, ever since trying to use a Quicken checkbook program put me way in the red...just because the technology is there doesn't mean I have to use it...
posted
I never kept word counts until working on this novella. It did help me to keep focussed, because I'm more of a revise-what-you've-written person, so I could ditzle around with the first 3000 words and not make any additional progress.
All I did was rip the bottom half off a used piece of paper and paperclip to the printed ms. Date, ending word count for the day. It was the last thing I'd do before going to bed. Mostly, I hit or surpasssed my self-imposed goal, sometimes not.
posted
Marva- I didn't get an e-mail. I didn't see it in spam, but maybe I missed it. Sorry! I am not meaning to ignore you. Posts: 303 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Sholar: No biggie. I was just lamenting the technical writer's dilemma of being trained to brevity. I didn't think folks here would find it useful as it didn't pertain to fiction writing.
posted
I did a lot of business writing for a lot of years, so brevity and clarity has been ingrained. Breaking myself of that also means that, when I'm editing, I have to add detail and description in.
You're not alone.
When I write novels, I have a general idea of how long it's going to be, but - and this is a pretty huge but - I also plan in copious detail (that's the best way for me), so I do know pretty much exactly where the story is going to go.
I've just started playing around with shorter stories, so those are not as familiar or predictable for me, but I suspect that with more practice, I'll probably be able to peg those as well.
Perhaps it's a part of my anal retentive calculating accountant type background that plays a part in this? :dontknow:
posted
I should also mention that I've kept a diary since 1979, binders with looseleaf paper, where I write down the day's events (usually) before I go to sleep, in boring detail. There are lots of gaps, for sure, but I've found it to be a useful reference to my life from time to time. ("I went here on such-and-such a date, before I went there the next day," and "Yes, I did watch the first Brickyard 400 to the very end" come to mind.)
Naturally my literary work comes up in it. ("I wrote another 1000 words of my latest novel attempt. It seems to be going well.")
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Nowadays I'm much more attentive to how wordy I'm being.
