posted
I'm a strange bird. I've been writing for some time (with no serious publications), and I'm a computer monkey working for a defense contractor. I'm also possessed with an entrepreneurial spirit. So when I think about the difficulties of publishing, and the dangers involved in giving the rights to my beloved stories to someone else, I wonder if it would be easier to begin my own publishing company.
This next paragraph is all common-sense stuff, but for the sake of the post bear with me.
It seems to me that a small publishing house would be similar to other start-up companies in respect to administration and finance. (Forgive me; this next part sounds awfully banal.) The start-up would have a certain amount of capital to produce (i.e. print) its product. (Here the author would have the advantage of having full rights to his/her story and complete control over the printed version.) Then said product would be marketed and sold to the distributors who wholesale to bookstores. With any profit gleaned from this sale, the fledgling company would be able to buy other stories from authors, print them, and the cycle continues.
My problem is that I know very little about the publishing industry – such as the relationship between publishers and distributors. Would wholesalers even consider buying from a small publishing house? Do the large, established publishing companies have a monopoly on this market? Have authors tried this before only to lose money and pride?
posted
I know of a few people who have done this, most of them writers of religious nonfiction within my church, so it's not impossible. It may require a great deal of influence or money, however, and you don't sound like you have either.
Posts: 55 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
I used to work for Booksamillion, the 3rd largest book retailer in the country. They absolutely would buy from a small publisher. HOWEVER, you would have a hard time getting it into all of our stores. How this would best work for you, if you're interested: 1) If your product is regional-interest (ie, Texas or Southwest) you'll go through the Regional Book Buyer at Amerian Wholesale Book Company. You WILL have a hard time getting someone on the phone, but creative calling will do the trick. You'll need to send sample copy(s) of your work to that buyer. 2) If your product is national interest (ie mainstream, SF/F) you will speak to the buyer for that category. I think they still break out buyers by category (ie Fiction, Cooking, etc.) You may want to consider offering them a good discount (there's standard discounts that publishers give book retailers; you might consider going lower to increase your buy potential). You'll still need to send them sample copy(s). I would NOT say that you're self-publishing; I would say that you're a new small press publishing house. 3) You could try going to the top. Send a strong, super professional sample copy to the President (Sandy Cochran) or Chairman of the Board (Clyde Anderson), or to the President of Bamm.com (Terry Finley). You might say that you've also sent samples to the appropriate buyer, but you thought that your product might interest them. DO YOUR HOMEWORK though! Sandy, Clyde, and Terry don't read scifi... BAM has "President's Picks" and "Clyde Picks" and you can find out what some of their recent "picks" have been to know whether your item(s) would be of interest to them. 4) You could make your pitch to Bamm.com. The buyer for that is Doug Corne. It will also be difficult to get him on the phone. But try the above tactic for Bamm.com (targeting Doug and/or Terry). If your product is hugely successful for Bamm.com, Terry will push for it to go into the stores.
I would imagine that the above suggestions would likely be applicable for other retailers, but I couldn't speak for them, obviously!
posted
I've worked with writers that are self-published & have even thought about starting a publishing venture of my own - and I think that if you want to be a career-writer (full time, published, getting paid, etc), this is probably not the way you want to go.
If, and chances aren't in favor of this, your publishing venture goes well and you publish your work and then works by other authors - suddenly this will be your career. Publishing not writing.
It seems like a lot of time, talent and money to spend on something if it is not your *first* love (which, I assume is writing... but, if I'm wrong, and publishing is your first love - dont mind me).
I guess that's why I see such a benefit in working with PR professionals, Agents, etc - they are *paid* to do this, so you can concentrate on what matters to you: writing.
A few of the authors I've spoken with, initially thought self publishing was an "easier" path to publication - but found in the end its as much work, if not more, than regular press publishing (considering they received little or no editing - which is sometimes very needed - and no help marketing and promoting their work, unless they paid for it). Plus, a lot of agents, publishers, editors don't consider this "publishing experience" and so this may not help you get published in the future unless you have a huge hit.
quote:My problem is that I know very little about the publishing industry
You absolutely need to research far more about the publishing industry before you even consider the position. That should be your first point of research.
A point about self-publishing is that they are traditionally more expensive than traditional print material, because of the higher costs involved in short run printing being spread about a small number of issues.
This is especially important in that retailers demand a good discount on stock they acquire, and usually insist on a returns policy in the event of unsold stock.
In simpler terms, even in a best case scenario you can distribute to major retailers, but find your profit margin's too hard - or otherwise find that the retailers want to return your unsold overpriced books.
That's only part of the challenge, though - many larger retailers will not actually touch your work - namely because of the business issues of acceptable profit and returns.
It is precisely why it is so difficult to successfully self-publish that very few people make any form of commerical success with it - those who do are very very rare.
Different people have different aims for their writing. Those who go for traditional publishing face a tough road of acceptance - those who go self-published face poor distribution.
[This message has been edited by Chronicles_of_Empire (edited August 22, 2003).]
posted
I just recived from my agent an updated "how to formatt your ms" and when I looked over the changes to his site I noticed one other thing---he now states that he will not take any self published book unless it hasd sold 20,000 copies. Whew.
Maccabeus: You’re quite right. I have neither money nor influence. I’m just a curious guy who likes to spin a good tale.
SiliGurl: Your post was very informative. Thank you. You have impressive knowledge of the industry. I’m mostly interested in the fantasy genre. Have any fantasy authors that you know of succeeded in self-publishing?
DiaCornier: You bring up a good point. I hadn’t thought of the impact that self-publishing could have on the writing process. I, perhaps naively, thought I could find time for both. Do you know of anyone who has attempted to wear both writing and publishing hats?
Chronicles_of_Empire: What you say about the high costs of short-run printings rings true, and the online research I’ve done supports it. Consider Morris Publishing (www.morrispublishing.com). They’ll run 1000 copies of a 400 page book @ $3.74 each. When you consider shipping costs (and storage costs for that matter) there’s not much room profit there if you assume the book will retail for $6-$8. But then again, if it were so easy to self-publish everyone would be doing it.
srhowen: I agree that editing is always a must. I’m curious: has your agent ever worked with self-publishers, or is his policy of 20,000-copies-sold a polite way of saying no thanks?
(Sorry it took so long for me to reply. I got married over the weekend; I’ve been a tad busy. )
[This message has been edited by Kligson (edited August 25, 2003).]
posted
I know he's done at least one e-book contract. As most self published books do not do better than 20,000 copies--it may be his way of saying no thanks. The Christmas Box did very much better than the 20,000 books.
Andy also edits his clients work. Many agents do not--and if you think a crit group is tough--let an agent get hold of your stuff.
I think he knows what sells and what won't. He did tell me, (I had an offer to publish one of my works as an e-book) that publishers rarely take on e-books. They could be considered self published as few of them get edited. Same stigma.
I think you have to ask yourself why you are self publishing?
To make money?
To gain a traditional contract?
Just to hold the book?
Chances are great you won't make a lot of money. Chances are you will not get a contract in the traditional sense.
If you just want the book to hold---go for it.
Getting to the agent/publisher stage is hard, painful, and stressful. A little like walking up a steep mountain of lava knowing when you get to the top that you will have to clean the bathrooms at a foot ball stadium with a tooth brush--and then use it to brush your teeth--before you get the contract.
So yes, e-book and self publish can be very attractive--just make sure you are doing it for the right reasons. DO it for the wrong ones--i.e. money and fame, and you may shoot your chances into the crapper.
posted
I'm not sure if this has been said yet or not, since I didn't read the replies. or even the main body of text, I know that's really bad I apologize.
But I think it's a bad idea to self-publish in general because a well-known publisher is a lot better at getting the book into stores, and to interested parties.
posted
srhowen: I suppose my interest in self-publishing stems from my desire to find a clever back door into a career as a writer. But from the sound of it, a writer faces more challenges in the self-publishing arena than they do with the traditional model.
My motivations for writing could be described as a desire for fame, I suppose. Fame in that I would like to write stories that inspire and enchant. I have some characters and plots that I love very much, and I’d like to share them with a large audience. Is it not the dream of every writer to be adored by his/her readers?
Money can be obtained. It’s a resource available to the hard working and clever. The dollar figure attached to a contract is not the most important thing to me, although I would like to write full time. If my writing makes enough money to support my family it would be a grand thing indeed.
From what everyone has said, it sounds like a traditional contract with an established publisher is the way to go.
posted
Easy to say hard to get--no matter what direction you go there is a lot of work involved.
I can only say that you have to write, read read read, write, then repeat. NO matter what anyone says you cannot write what sells without reading. As you grow you will start to see what works and what doesn't and put that into your writing.
What works? I have decided there is not a magic formula. NONE. Many how to books say there is--but then there are so many books out there, each different. I’ve said this before and will be blasted for saying it again--OK good writing sells. But there is nothing wrong with putting that writing into a first book “formula.” I think one of the reasons so many people fight this is--it is hard to do. It is very hard to say ok, I will make chapters this long, only use this many words, have this many scenes ect--but--BIG BUT--if you can’t do that how do you ever expect to do rewrites.
I am not talking about crit group rewrites. Those are still under your control. The ones an agent or publisher give you are not. Yes you can say STET (let is stand) but that won’t get you where you want to be. You have to change things or find a way to change them, the way you want, and still please those in the know. Not easy--I know.
Once you think you have the best book you can write the next step is research--and persistence. Research all agents and publishers, check out the sources that warn of scams ect--there is a huge population of them. Remember the 12 commandments of getting an agent–or publisher
1. Thou does not pay an agent reading fees, submission fees, or any other fee other than office costs paid after they sell the book.
2. Thou does not pay an agent reading fees, submission fees, or any other fee other than office costs paid after they sell the book.
3. Thou does not pay an agent reading fees, submission fees, or any other fee other than office costs paid after they sell the book.
4. Agent is an AAR member in good standing.
5. Agent is up front with client lists and sales (do not buy the oh we don’t share our client list)
6. Agent is not listed on Predators and Editors (negatively)
7. Agent is not listed on SFWA writers Beware list
8. I will check out absolute write and see if anyone has dealt with said agent
10. Agents clients answer your e-mails with glowing words about said agent 11. Thou does not pay an agent reading fees, submission fees, or any other fee other than office costs paid after they sell the book.
12. Thou does not pay an agent reading fees, submission fees, or any other fee other than office costs paid after they sell the book.
As to an easy way in---I don’t think there is one. Hard work, determination, an armored shell, and research--then if the writing and story are good you are in.
I feel that the current model of publishing is getting old, and stale. I believe strongly in the possibilities of the self-publishing market, which is, conversely, new and a little naive. A major opportunity lies in a pooling of power by the self-publshers and e-publishers, (have you ever read "The Amazing Maurice..." by Terry Pratchett? Rat power, 'ho!)
I found your first post intriguing. Would you plan on, if becoming a small publisher, buying other authors' works and then submitting them to the same processes which worry you in regards to your own work? How would your contracts be different than the standard contracts?
We hit these major pitfalls when writing becomes about the money MORE than about the writing. Would you do what it took to make the writing (now publishing) your day job?
Essentially, would you become a publisher akin to all the other publishers out there?
posted
xanaditu: Hypothetical situations are difficult, because they’re, well, hypothetical. So what I WOULD do if I had my own publishing venture is a matter of conjecture. But I can tell you what I’d LIKE to do: use the publishing policies that work, but be different enough to attract new blood.
For example, rewarding popular authors for books that sell many copies is a fine idea. But paying multi-million dollar advances is silly. (Although I must say, I’d never decline such an offer myself. Who would?) If authors are granted a fair royalty percentage they will make their money from book sales.
Those millions of dollars spent on the advance could be invested in new authors, or experimental works. How do these companies ever do anything groundbreaking if they never take risks? (I’m sure they do take an occasional risk, but I’d like to see more.)
Consider a $1,000,000 advance to a best-selling author. A publishing company could pay that author a reasonable advance; say something to the tune of $25,000. (If authors live lives that are too extravagant to live off of smaller advances, that’s the fault of the authors. It’s not the publishing companies’ responsibility to support expensive habits.) I know I could live off that amount for 5 or 6 months. Then once the book makes it to the stores the author can enjoy the fruits of his/her labor (royalties). This way the publisher would have hundreds of thousands to support other ventures: new authors, alternate media ventures, etc.
This was mostly a rant, and didn’t do much to answer your question. I don’t have enough operational knowledge of publishing to say specifically what I’d do.
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