posted
This may be dealt with somewhere in the dense commentary, and I missed it but...since this project would be kind of under the aegis of the Hatrack River Writer's Workshop website, hadn't some sort of permission to do so be secured before proceding?
Posts: 8809 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Robert Nowall: This may be dealt with somewhere in the dense commentary, and I missed it but...since this project would be kind of under the aegis of the Hatrack River Writer's Workshop website, hadn't some sort of permission to do so be secured before proceding?
On one hand, due diligence requires at least asking if permission is required. On the other hand, incidental, inconspicuous trademark use that doesn't diminish the trademark's value is fair use.
Due diligence, like this discussion, also assesses interest, marketability, audience, infrastructure, resources, and other legal necessities. This discussion is a brainstorming focus group for surveying a portion of those qualities. At present, things are about breaking down into thirds. One-third says they'll participate regardless, so long as things are on the up-and-up. One-third says they want the traditional publishing relationship: submit, screen, payment. One-third is open to an experimental model, albeit risky and possibily rewarding.
I won't move forward until I have the time and then not without assurances the risks are at least comensurate with rewards. I will not get caught up in an ongoing losing proposition. I don't have the time and money to pour down a black hole.
Another part of due diligence is looking at cash flow. Minimum costs run about $700 per volume, more if multiple editions, as much as $1000 per anum. Recouping those expenses gives me pause. A print edition is one possibility for recouping costs. Charging for digital access is another. But charge for content and writers want to be paid.
Print edition breakdown;
250 pages trade paperback (6 by 9) 400 words per page 100,000 words total 5,000 words item average 20 items $9.00 unit manufacturing cost $3.00 unit markup $0.60 manufacturer markup $12.60 unit cover price
$700 minimum expenses $1000 maximum expenses
assuming 20 sales $60 expenses recouped
assuming 50 sales $150 expenses recouped
assuming 100 sales $300 expenses recouped
assuming 250 sales $750 minimum expenses recouped
assuming 335 sales $1005 maximum expenses recouped
assuming 500 sales $1500, $1000 maximum expenses recouped $500 distributed to item contributors $25 average pay per contributor
Posts: 6037 | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
extrinsic, you can count me in, in any capacity those who join in decide I’d be suitable for. Which in reality might be as lowly as proofreading. Heck, I’d even be prepared to sling a $50 into the hat.
My reasons for saying yes at this nebulous stage? I think you need the encouragement and I need the professional and craft development such an undertaking might provide. I think I write well and evocatively – but I’m frustrated by my lack of understanding of why what I write brings some people to tears or how I enrage some readers on the hero’s behalf when they see him suffering.
There is still a heck of a long way to go in deciding structure, eligibility and selection criteria and a whole host of other mechanical problems. But, until there’s a working group to nut these issues out, it’s all sound and fury signifying not much.
quote:Originally posted by Robert Nowall: This may be dealt with somewhere in the dense commentary, and I missed it but...since this project would be kind of under the aegis of the Hatrack River Writer's Workshop website, hadn't some sort of permission to do so be secured before proceding?
Well, if legal considerations weren't enough, common decency would dictate asking permission doing anything that might involve the Hatrack trademark. I suspect that anything that seems to imply an official relationship with Hatrack would be out of the question, unless such a relationship actually existed. If such a relationship did exist OSC would quite reasonably want to have some kind of editorial input into the project, since his intellectual property is involved. I doubt he has the time or interest.
The simpler course might be to distance the project from the Hatrack site as far as possible, making it clear that the anthology is neither the work of nor is endorsed by OSC, KDW or Hatrack, while of course thanking the same for their role in bringing the participants together.
So, an acceptable product name and a policy for managing the trademark issue should be on the agenda for the business plan.
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posted
I will at least ask responsible persons able to say whether any association of an anthology with Hatrack River is needed. Incidental use is a fair use of a trademark, mindful of diminishment of value concerns. Something to the effect: These are anthology works of Hatrack River Writers Workshop members. No other association or connection between the two entities is expressed or implied.
Much meditation to do, mostly whether the returns justify the risks and efforts, and whether this will be a monumental headache.
In any event, I will start a publishing concern this coming summer, one way or others.
Posts: 6037 | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Excuse the colloquialisms; I’m over point-oh-five on the breathalyser. extrinsic, I don’t think you should consider Hatrack Writer’s Workshop as anything more than a seed-group of people who might be interested in your idea. From my limited perspective, I’ve noticed that most people on this site are only interested in hooks, queries, first 13’s and related ephemera. I’m a regular contributor on another site and have, in the last two years, critiqued 10+ 100K+ word length novels, through various incarnations. That means I’ve critiqued the same story more than three times. And, that doesn’t include the uncounted short stories I’ve also critiqued in that process.
I understand and sympathise with your vision, extrinsic – just look further a-field and consider a recruitment criterion that isn’t based on the parochial notion that you are constrained to the rarefied air of Hatracker contributors. I could say more, but I won’t.
posted
Grumpy, that's not how it's supposed to work. The first thirteen is supposed to be an introduction for people to take their critiquing relationship to private correspondence. It's not meant to make this place interested mainly in beginnings, although it seems that way some times. There has been a lot of success out of this process.
Can't say if that's been actually happening lately, I don't produce much so I'm rarely in frag and feed.
Oh, and I see I haven't posted on this thread before. I'm in Extrinsic, I'll at least send you something. Whether I can help further depends on me schedule at the time. Full time employment plus school takes a lot out of me.
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