posted
i have story in witch elipses are an intergral part of the ending. my question is;when ending a sentence with an elipse does the period, question mark ect, come before or after the elipse, with or without spaces?
Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Period, question mark, etc. all come after the ellipsis.
If you spaced between the dots of the ellipsis, then space between the period or whatever at the end of the sentence. (I don't put in extra spaces when I use ellipses, for whatever that's worth.)
posted
Wow. I'm with Kathleen, but it seems there is no real agreement on ellipses. Some sources say put spaces between the three dots, some say put spaces only before and after the three dots, some say put the sentence period then a space then three unspaced dots, some say put the sentence period then three spaced dots, some say three dots for a trail off, some say four...????
The closest thing to what you are asking I found was that if the last part of a sentence that ends in an exclamation or question mark is being omitted, "then instead of four points, use that mark plus three points." (That from Stilman in Grammatically Correct).
But Stilman assumes you're omitting something. You may simply be trailing off in a questioning manner, as in "Where was he going...?" If you write "Where was he going?..." it seems to nullify the trail-off. Looks too abrupt to me.
Kathleen's way makes more sense.
[This message has been edited by Kolona (edited May 03, 2003).]
posted
Thanks Kathleen and Kolona! this was a big help. Not only did i learn something about ellipses, I learned how to spell it too.(or was that ellipsis) Posts: 41 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Same goes for words like parenthesis (one set of the double punctuation mark that ends and starts this parenthetical comment) and two sets are called parentheses.
If you have more than one analysis, you should call them analyses, and so on.
Weird way to make a plural, I know, but there it is. And one set of ... is an ellipsis, with more than one set being called ellipses.
posted
I think I asked this same question last year.
If an elipse is a trail of dots to denote a change of movement...then my own research suggests that the most common published form...would appear like that...and this...with three dots only and...no spaces between words. Do you think that this punctuation is correct...? That is indeed the way to use...elipses.
posted
I believe that in books, ellipsis points always have spaces between them. I've seen some magazines where they only used spaces before and after the three dots. The style guide that I'm most familiar with (Chicago) says that there should be spaces.
If the ellipsis ends a grammatically complete declarative sentence, then do a period and then three ellipsis points, like this:
quote:Hmm . . . I'm not sure what to do now. . . .
For exclamatory or interrogative sentences, use three ellipsis points followed by an exclamation or question mark.
[This message has been edited by Jon Boy (edited May 04, 2003).]
posted
I detest the ellipsis. It's the puntuation of rubes and charlatans, one group hasn't the ability to cloth ideas in well-styled words, and the other foists off ideas in three dots with all of the integrity of the riff raff who sent the Emperor out naked!
If you have something to say, say it and let the world be damned to it. If you don't have something worth saying, and you know the difference between good and bad and right and wrong, do not attempt to hide an Ending behind three specks.
Ellipsis users are a seedy lot who'll cheat on art, taxes, and their spouses; they are not to be trusted.
Edit:
I think Twain wrote that people who use ellipses are apt to steal.
[This message has been edited by Tanglier (edited May 05, 2003).]
Those who cannot write realistic characters and dialogue will never use an ellipse.
Btw - check to see how the genre you're writing for uses ellipses. I actually think I do use spaces in courier, but that was originally to overcome auto-formatting. Either way, it's all very easy to change using the "edit>>replace" function in Word.
posted
Tanglier, that was the strangest rant I've ever seen. Sorry, but I can't even begin to understand the logic behind it. As an editor, writer, and reader, I know that there are many useful times to use ellipses. I only dislike them when they're used to unethically edit a quote or when people simply don't know how to use them.
gt2it, I think Tanglier was referring to Mark Twain. Also, there's no need to shout. Typing in all caps is visually assaulting and hard to read.
quote:Sorry, but I can't even begin to understand the logic behind it.
Try harder.
Ellipses are for the inarticulate writer who, instead of delving into the issue he/she wants to discuss, keeps the idea hidden behind three dots. It's like playing a shell game or a sleight of hand with Art. Ellipses are the wink winks and nudge nudges of the craft. They are used when the writer cannot think of an appropriate metaphor or explanation and feels like gambling that the reader will understand what writer cannot articulate and probably doesn't understand him/herself.
They are for opportunists and the verbally and morally ambiguous. If they were religious, they would be non-denominational Protestants who only go to church on Christmas and Easter. Ellipsis users walk on slippery ground, and like these sinners, their foot will slide in due time.
[This message has been edited by Tanglier (edited May 06, 2003).]
Jon Boy,you insult me by assuming i don't know who Twain is. Twain who...? was a humorous poke at Tanglier. So i will assume that you have no sense of humor and explain. Twain who, as in - what did Twain know? the elipsis at the end was to show no matter what Tanglier says i'll use it anyway. the little guy slicking out his tounge was just sticking out his tounge at Tanglier.
Tanglier
[This message has been edited by gt2it (edited May 06, 2003).]
[This message has been edited by gt2it (edited May 06, 2003).]
posted
Although Tanglier was a bit extreme in how he was saying it, there is something about what he was saying. I know that when I'm writing on boards or email, I tend to use elipsis when my thoughts aren't quite together, or when I'm mentally taking a breathe.
In a story, the use of them often weakens the story itself. Not always, but often. I have seen stronger stories where the author broke off what was being said, and explained what was going on.
posted
William Gibson (although I have huge conflicts of style with him) uses elipses very well in alot of his books. Not strictly in dialogue, also in narration.
Pick up one or two of his books, they're wonderful and a good example of a unique style.
posted
Exactly, they are the same as taking a deep breath in the narration--they can slow the pace. SO unless that is what you want, be careful where you use them.
posted
Ellipses are like garlic, exclamation points, and humor. In small doses, they can really spice up whatever they're in. In large doses, they take over and draw attention to themselves. I hate to criticize OSC on his own site, but the overuse of ellipses in Stone Tables made that particular novel very difficult to get through for me. Like Shawn said, they slowed the pace and drew attention to themselves instead of being a subtle spice.
And gt2it, I don't think Jon Boy was insulting your intelligence. It's just sometimes hard to pick up on sarcasm on the Internet. Believe me, I know from experience.
[This message has been edited by Brinestone (edited May 07, 2003).]
posted
Darn it...I could have sworn there was at least one set of ellipses in "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God." Posts: 180 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
gt2it, I really wasn't trying to insult your intelligence. Sorry. No offense was intended. I hope you choose not to take any.
Tanglier, could you provide some examples of the kind of writing that you're talking about? In my experience, ellipses are used to indicate a pause, faltering speech, or the omission of extraneous material in a quote. Speech is anything but a smooth, unbroken chain of words, and there must be a type of punctuation to indicate the broken nature of dialogue. I really don't know what you're reading, but I'm interested to find out.
[This message has been edited by Jon Boy (edited May 07, 2003).]
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