posted
I posted this on my blog but thought I'd ask here too.
Maggie's been reacting to something. We're reasonably sure at this point it's soy. The store had ONE kind of soy-free bread today, and it was $3/loaf. For a small loaf. Ugh.
I think I'm going to have to get a breadmaker. (I Don't Do baking in the oven for anything more complicated than baking powder biscuits or a cake now and then. If it takes a rise, I don't bake it. Not from scratch anyway. We don't have room to rise anything!)
Anyone got recommendations for a compact, reasonably priced, well-performing, super-idiot-proof bread machine? I'm talking, "dump dry ingredients in. Dump wet ingredients in. Push no more than 2 buttons. Remove bread and eat it." That's what I need.
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I hope this isn't too unhelpful a response, but it seems to me if you have room for a breadmaker you have room for a bowl of dough to rise. They will take up roughly the same amount of real estate for roughly the same amount of time.
That being said we have a cheap generic breadmaker (the cheapest from Walmart) and it works fine, and roughly matches the requirements you listed.
Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mar 2005
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I'm actually going to go the same route with my advice. My mom god a bread machine when I was a teen and spend about 3 years making dozens of loaves of bread, trying to find a good one. The best we could say for any of them was that they were edible.
I make my own bread all the time and it's not hard or time consuming, even without a bread machine. The trick I use -- a kitchen aid with a dough hook. This helps me skip the kneading step. But it's not necessary.
Here's basically how the process works (varies by recipe):
Mix yeast and warm fluid (proofing) (5-10 minutes)
Mix remaining ingredients and knead ((5-10 minutes )
Rise in bowl (1 hour)
Separate into loaf pans and rise again (45 minutes)
Bake (30 minutes)
Yes, while overall this process takes 2.5-3 hours, only the first 10-20 minutes are hands on. The rest you just need to set some timers and be in the house. I do this while the kids are napping. For a while I made bread this way twice a week. (I've backed off recently but it comes and goes.)
Anyway, just my take on it. I don't find baking risen bread to be at all difficult....although I've run into lots of people who have a block about it. I did for a while myself because my first loaf of bread came out yucky and it took me years to try it again. I guess I forgot my kindergarten lessons about try, try again. Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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If you don't mind white bread the "artisan bread in 5 minutes a day" craze is really easy. It works easily with up to 1/3 whole wheat flour, but more than that takes more care with shaping and rising.
No kneading, you mix a big batch and keep it in your refrigerator and cut off a piece when you want to bake it.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Anyone got recommendations for a compact, reasonably priced, well-performing, super-idiot-proof bread machine? I'm talking, "dump dry ingredients in. Dump wet ingredients in. Push no more than 2 buttons. Remove bread and eat it." That's what I need.
My family has a Black & Decker All In One Automatic Breadmaker, although it seems to work just as well as all our previous breadmachines. The method is "throw the ingredients in. Press go." We always tweak our ingredients though-- different flour means different amounts of water etc.
Now, we don't like the bread cooked in the machine (it tends to have a soggier crust and the texture's nowhere as good, imo), so we make dough, have it rise in the machine, and put it on a tray or in a tin in the oven to cook at 450 F for like 15-30 minutes depending on what you're baking. It's delicious, and requires five minutes of throwing the ingredients in the pan, a minute to check the mixture's not too dry or wet, and then baking. The bonus of that is, you can also use the dough for pizza, rolls, any size loaves you want, combo rolls and loaf etc.
I'm amazed that so many breads have soy in. Why do they put it in? Is it to increase the nutrition levels of the bread or for some other purpose?
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Teshi: I'm amazed that so many breads have soy in. Why do they put it in? Is it to increase the nutrition levels of the bread or for some other purpose?
It's an inexpensive substitute for healthier things.
Actually, the soy industry in the U.S. has done a terrific job marketing their product. It is a very common allergen and yet it is almost everything. I have a friend whose daughter is allergic to a lot of things, one of which she believes is chocolate. But another is soy, and it is almost impossibly to find chocolate without soy in it, which made me wonder if she really was allergic to chocolate. (Couldn't entirely blame the mom for not chancing it in this case.)
Soy is used as a cheap filler in so many things -- if you're soy allergic you may not want to trust fast food hamburgers, for example.
quote:Originally posted by Teshi: Now, we don't like the bread cooked in the machine (it tends to have a soggier crust and the texture's nowhere as good, imo), so we make dough, have it rise in the machine, and put it on a tray or in a tin in the oven to cook at 450 F for like 15-30 minutes depending on what you're baking. It's delicious, and requires five minutes of throwing the ingredients in the pan, a minute to check the mixture's not too dry or wet, and then baking. The bonus of that is, you can also use the dough for pizza, rolls, any size loaves you want, combo rolls and loaf etc.
I've seen people say they do this before -- mostly on allrecipes reviews, but I don't understand how it saves time over a kitchen aid if you end up having to take it out and bake it.
I love making my own pizza crust, though. We haven't done a delivery pizza in years...homemade is so much better and so much more versatile. I've been experimenting with different sauces lately. I recently hit on the idea of mixing wine with the sauce...yummy.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:I don't understand how it saves time over a kitchen aid if you end up having to take it out and bake it.
???
With the breadmaker, toss ingredients in and go away. Come back later and use dough. With mixer, there is considerably more active time involved before "go away". Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I've used my mom's bread machine - I think it's a Betty Crocker? The crust wasn't soggy - in fact I thought it was a bit too hard, but I don't like hard crusts, so I might be too picky. I only ever made white bread with it, but Mom makes a variety (which is why I no longer have her machine - she wanted it back.)
I'm considering getting a bread machine at our local resale shop that helps support the domestic/sexual assault shelter. They usually have 1-3, and charge about $15.
Mom's recommendation was put the wet ingredients in, then the dry ingredients on top. Put the yeast and salt away from each other.
Posts: 2034 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:I don't understand how it saves time over a kitchen aid if you end up having to take it out and bake it.
???
With the breadmaker, toss ingredients in and go away. Come back later and use dough. With mixer, there is considerably more active time involved before "go away".
Not really. I throw the ingredients in the kitchen aid. When it looks like dough I put a towel on it and set the timer for an hour. I'm not saying it's not an extra step, but if it's 5 extra minutes actual of work I'd be surprised.
ETA: Plus, as an investment, the kitchen aid does other things besides mix bread dough.
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Yup. I have a bread machine and a kitchen aid. I have been known to use both for dough, depending.
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To stop the dough sticking to the tray you can either flour it or use a little olive oil. Flour is all floury, olive oil gives it a nice sheen on the crust, depending on what you're looking for.
One thing about taking it out of the tin is that if it's too wet you really notice it because it will be all floppy and not raise very well. You can't always tell in the tin. This is a good thing to know because too-wet dough is very bleh.
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I don't know what type of bread machine I have, but it leaves a whole in the bread, which I don't like. I don't cook though, so it was my husband's toy (which was a hand me down from his mother who never used it). Now that I am unemployed, I think baking bread might be fun for monster but I have no clue how to do it. She likes stirring and mixing and I think kneading would amuse her, as would leaving it in a lump and an hour later it being all huge. I guess I should go online and look for a recipe. And buy some yeast- I have a packet in here, but it is like 6 years old.
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Skip the bread machine. Making bread is pretty easy. A Kitchen Aid or similar mixer is useful for a lot of things besides bread making and will actually take up less room in your kitchen than any bread machine I've ever seen.
I used a bread machine for a while and the one big advantage was that I could set it up and then go to bed or work and the bread would be done when I got up or came home. This was only an advantage because I was very rarely at home and awake for the three hours it takes for bread to rise and bake. The actual investment of my time in the process was less when I didn't use the machine since I could make several loaves at once and the product was always superior.
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quote:Originally posted by scholarette: I don't know what type of bread machine I have, but it leaves a whole in the bread, which I don't like. I don't cook though, so it was my husband's toy (which was a hand me down from his mother who never used it). Now that I am unemployed, I think baking bread might be fun for monster but I have no clue how to do it. She likes stirring and mixing and I think kneading would amuse her, as would leaving it in a lump and an hour later it being all huge. I guess I should go online and look for a recipe. And buy some yeast- I have a packet in here, but it is like 6 years old.
A couple of notes: 1. Yeast expires, so be aware of this. It's usually good until you open it and then I'm not sure how long it lasts because I go through it too quickly to matter...but if it doesn't proof, throw it out. 2. Some of the recipes are vague about the temperature of the "warm" water needed. The package of yeast will tell you what the ideal temperature is, usually around 110-115 degrees Fahrenheit. It doesn't hurt to get a thermometer to check that it's the right temp.
Finally, for baking projects with young kids, I find that sweet breads work best....things like banana bread. I don't know how old yours is, but my 3-year-old isn't quite ready to knead yet. He can stir and we're working on measuring. He does help me with risen bread by measuring and he loves to watch the kitchen Aid go to town on it.
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We have the Breadmaster, and we love it. We make whole wheat bread every week for Shabbat. It's light and fluffy and no one believes that it's 100% whole wheat, because it's not dense and harsh.
We've never actually tried letting it cook in the machine. We put the ingredients in and let it work the dough. After it's done (an hour and 20 minutes), we take the dough out, put it into two bread pans, and cover them with a damp towel in the oven for about 40 minutes. Then we brush on eggwash and bake for 23 minutes at 325 degrees.
Putting the ingredients into the machine takes about 15 minutes. And the bread is phenomenal. Better and cheaper than store bought, and it's pretty much ruined us for white bread.
If you want the recipe, let me know.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by scholarette: Ok- stupid question- what does proof mean?
Not stupid at all! Sorry, I've been doing this for years and didn't think to temper my terminology. Proofing, or activating the yeast, is when you mix the yeast with warm water and sugar and it gets all foamy.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Lisa: We have the Breadmaster, and we love it. We make whole wheat bread every week for Shabbat. It's light and fluffy and no one believes that it's 100% whole wheat, because it's not dense and harsh.
If you want the recipe, let me know.
You've managed to get 100% whole wheat bread not to taste harsh? Do share! Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by scholarette: Do you have a favorite banana bread recipe (there are a lot of recipes on the internet)
I actually use the one from my old Better Homes and Gardens book -- I've tried a few off the Internet but this one is still my tried and true favorite:
1_1/2 cup flour 1_1/2 tsp baking powder (equivalent to 1/2 tablespoon) 1/4 tsp baking soda 1/4 tsp ground Cinnamon 1 cup mashed ripe bananas (about 2-3 bananas) 1 egg 3/4 cup sugar 1/4 cup vegetable oil 1 tsp lemon peel (it says optional, but I recommend) 1/2 cup chopped walnuts
Instructions: Mix the first 4 ingredients in one bowl. Mix the next 5 ingredients in another. Mix them together. Add the walnuts. Bake at 350 for 50-55 minutes.
ETA: Bake them in a well-greased loaf pan or it won't come out.
posted
Thanks! That looks yummy. Maybe Friday I'll try it- and buy bananas today so they'll be all ripe by then.
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quote:Originally posted by scholarette: Ok- stupid question- what does proof mean?
Not stupid at all! Sorry, I've been doing this for years and didn't think to temper my terminology. Proofing, or activating the yeast, is when you mix the yeast with warm water and sugar and it gets all foamy.
Um, not in any recipe I've ever read. Proofing is the final rise, after the dough has been shaped.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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dkw -- I did a quick Internet search and found the term used to describe both activation and rising, depending upon the site, and at least one site used it for both steps. The ones who use it for rising say it is for all rising, though, not just the final rise. (Wikipedia suggests that it can proof once or multiple times, depending upon the recipe.) So, it doesn't seem to be clear. I'd only heard it used to describe activation, but the term isn't explicitly used in many recipes so I'm not even sure where I originally heard it.
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I know you guys are complaining about soy, however I would like to point out that it is often one of the best alternatives to dairy or other allergies.
Now I realize it was 60 years ago, but soy formula kept my father alive when he was allergic to his mother's breastmilk. He nearly died before a soy-based formula was tried. Now a days I know they would try to remove all possible allergens from the mother's diet to try to tolerate the breastmilk, but he still needed something to keep him alive in the mean time.
Not only did George Washington Carver find all kinds of uses for the soybean, but it is also a pretty complete protein. Edamamme is a healthy snack.
Posts: 11265 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Christine: I'd only heard it used to describe activation
Ditto! It's actually a skip-able step, except in cases where you are not sure your yeast is good. Hence the name of the step.
quote:A Kitchen Aid or similar mixer is useful for a lot of things besides bread making and will actually take up less room in your kitchen than any bread machine I've ever seen.
I love my Kitchen Aid, but it is considerably heavier than my bread machine (which means it can't go up on the high shelf as the bread machine does) and has a substantially larger footprint.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Well, my trip to the store for yeast, banana and envelopes ended up costing over $50. I am a horrible shopper. The bananas were next to the blueberries and strawberries, which all looked so very yummy. And that led me to the veggies and fresh veggies are always good. And then I thought, yum, chicken would go well with this and be easy enough to cook. And then it is like, oh, yeah, I am out of this. And I really do need that. Posts: 2223 | Registered: Mar 2008
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Okay, I should clarify. I have 2 problems with doing this without a breadmaker.
One is that I kill bread if I touch it. I don't want to touch it or I'll kill it, lol. I've tried for years and anything more complicated than pizza/naan/pita or quickbreads is pretty much a no-go for me.
The space issue is really more of a containment issue. I don't have room to leave things out to rise where small children or cats can't get into them. I don't enjoy cat fur in my bread, or children eating raw bread dough and throwing it up on my floor and contaminating the batch. So, the self-containment of a bread machine is all that is going to make this doable.
I have a Kitchenaid. The only times I've used it to make bread were disasters.
Thanks for your recs so far!
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Lisa: We have the Breadmaster, and we love it. We make whole wheat bread every week for Shabbat. It's light and fluffy and no one believes that it's 100% whole wheat, because it's not dense and harsh.
If you want the recipe, let me know.
You've managed to get 100% whole wheat bread not to taste harsh? Do share!
3 1/2 cups of sifted whole wheat flour (I use Bob's Red Mill)
5 tsp wheat gluten
1/4 cup oil (I use canola)
1 cup + 2 tbs hot water (tap hot is fine)
2 extra-large eggs
6 tbsp (a little more than level, but not really heaping) + 1 tsp sugar
1/2 tbsp salt
2 1/4 tsp dry yeast
I usually take 3 cups of flour from the bag and sift it. That'll give me the 3 1/2 cups plus some leftover for when I'm dealing with the dough. I sift the gluten in with it.
In the machine, put the oil, 1 1/2 eggs, and the cup of hot water. Save the other half an egg for eggwash.
Put the sifted flour into the machine and even out the top so it's kind of level. Put the sugar and the salt over that, and then make an indentation in the middle of the sugar/salt/flour.
Put the tsp of sugar into the indentation. Put the yeast atop that. Pour the two tbsp of hot water over that. Close the cover, set it on dough, and start the machine.
After 120 minutes, the dough is made. Cut the dough in half and put each half into its own breadpan (if you want, cut each half into thirds and braid them). Put them into a warmish oven (I usually set the oven on 175F while I'm cutting the dough, and then turn it off before putting the breads in the oven) with a damp towel over them. Leave it for 40 minutes.
(Spray the breadpans with non-stick spray first.)
Put the eggwash on the bread and then bake for 23 minutes at 325F. I don't usually pre-heat for this, so it's a little less than that in actuality.
Havah proofs the yeast instead of doing it this way, and then pours the proofed yeast in after the sugar and salt are there. I haven't noticed any real difference from it.
Let me know if you like it.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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FTR, I have no problem with soy-- other than it's causing gut issues, fussiness, bloody diaper rash, and pink raised rashes on my child's face. The rest of us still eat soy, I am just not gonna give it to the one who's allergic to it.
Another question: how loud is your breadmaker? Emma has sensory issues and does not do well with loud appliances (including the Kitchenaid.) I'm wondering if I need to be making the bread while we're out on a walk or whatever.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Lisa, your challah recipe is very similar to mine, but uses sugar instead of honey. (I also sometimes make it half whole wheat, but not if I have gluten in the house.)
One other difference: I haven't had time to make mine in months. The bakery whole wheat is pretty good, but not the same.
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Thanks, Lisa. I don't have any gluten in the house so I'll have to try it after I go to the store this weekend.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by scholarette: Do you have a favorite banana bread recipe (there are a lot of recipes on the internet)
Here's another banana bread recipe you can try (I make it at least once a week and my husband and 18 month old both love eating it for breakfast): ludosti's banana bread
I'd recommend storing your yeast in the fridge. I buy my yeast at Costco (in a couple pound package) and store it in its bag in a tupperware container in the bottom back corner of my fridge and it literally lasts forever that way.
I'm excited to try Lisa's bread recipe! I'll have to buy some gluten though....
KQ - I have Wellbilt machine (I bought it probably 8 years ago and can't remember how much it cost, but I'm pretty sure it was a cheap one). It's easy to use, though I use it more often for making dough (pizza, roll, etc.) than for making full bread. I do have some great recipes though - my mom spent quite a bit of time refining some bread and roll recipes for the bread machine. It is pretty quiet. It it only actively making noise (stirring) for a few minutes during the process (probably less than 15 minutes total spread out into a couple different stirrings). It's not any louder than a stand mixer.
Posts: 5879 | Registered: Apr 2001
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When making whole wheat bread, the brand of flour matters. I really like King Arthur whole wheat flour, which is available in Walmart around here. It hardly even needs any extra gluten to make loaves that rise well and aren't too heavy.
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I tried the honey wheat recipe today. Pretty good, except I realized once I got to the splitting step that I only have one loaf pan. So, the second loaf looks pretty funny. And my husband is going to tease me forever about how domestic I am becoming.
ludosti- that looks yummy too. Posts: 2223 | Registered: Mar 2008
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We live in the land of Smart and Final-- warehouse club prices without club membership. I know I can get a 50 lb. bag of bread flour, and the good stuff at that, for pretty cheap (like, less than $10 last I checked.) Whole wheat isn't a priority for me, honestly, though I may play around with it if I find a machine that does the white stuff well.
I've got a rec elsewhere for an Oster Compact ExpressBake. Anyone familiar with those? Apparently it makes a horizontal rather than vertical loaf... I have only a slight idea of how that works, but it sounds good to me. And it can make a loaf in less than an hour.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by rivka: Lisa, your challah recipe is very similar to mine, but uses sugar instead of honey. (I also sometimes make it half whole wheat, but not if I have gluten in the house.)
Ooo, I should try it with honey. During Tishrei, sometimes we put honey on the top instead of eggwash, but we've never tried it with honey inside.
I wonder how much honey I should use to substitute for the 6 tbsp of sugar. Any ideas?
Oh, and for breadpans during Tishrei, we use glass mixing bowls. They come out looking like those hats old time cantors used to wear.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Lisa: I wonder how much honey I should use to substitute for the 6 tbsp of sugar. Any ideas?
I don't measure (I put it in until it looks like the right amount) and I make it on the sweet side. If you use honey, reduce the liquid. There must be conversions online . . . here's one.
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: I've got a rec elsewhere for an Oster Compact ExpressBake. Anyone familiar with those? Apparently it makes a horizontal rather than vertical loaf... I have only a slight idea of how that works, but it sounds good to me. And it can make a loaf in less than an hour.
IME the [EDIT] horizontal bakers turn out consistently poorer-quality loaves. there's a reason most of them aren't designed that way. And they can all do a rapid cycle, but the bread is not as good.
quote:Originally posted by theCrowsWife: When making whole wheat bread, the brand of flour matters. I really like King Arthur whole wheat flour
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: I've got a rec elsewhere for an Oster Compact ExpressBake. Anyone familiar with those? Apparently it makes a horizontal rather than vertical loaf... I have only a slight idea of how that works, but it sounds good to me. And it can make a loaf in less than an hour.
My bread machine made a horizontal loaf, and it did make better bread than my mom's vertical machine. The only downside is that variations in the rise of the dough lead to slices that are very different sizes from loaf to loaf. With a vertical, the slice size is always the same, you just get more or fewer slices depending on the rise.
However, since it doesn't sound like you'll be experimenting much with different recipes once you find one that you like, you probably won't have too much variation once you get the hang of the recipe.
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So, I looked up reviews on different machines recommended to me, and I'm getting the Oster. 2, actually. So I can do 2 loaves in an hour, and be done for a day or two.
I'm not too worried about variations in size; my kids tend to eat a single piece of bread as a snack quite often. My husband and I can deal with it.
Now, to find a good electric knife for slicing bread, which I'm told is very helpful when you're doing it every day. I am all about the convenience. Any recs on that? Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Personally, I find the electric knife to be more trouble than it's worth just for bread, since it is more involved to clean it than a normal bread knife. What I find indispensable is a slicing guide so that the slices come out uniform.
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I second the slicing guide, particularly if you're using it for sandwiches.
Christine, I was typing that last post one-handed while nursing the baby, so it came out a little shorter/sharper than I meant it -- I was thinking more along the lines of "huh, that's a usage I haven't seen, isn't language weird" rather than "you're wrong." Sorry about that.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Oh, be sure to let the bread cool at least 30 minutes after baking before you try to cut it. The inside will continue to cook, and it will be nearly impossible to cut cleanly while it's still hot. I usually wait until they're completely cool before slicing. Also, if you have to cover it while it cools, use something breathable like a towel, otherwise condensation will form and make a soggy crust.
You may already know these things, but I thought I'd mention them just in case. It would be really frustrating to successfully bake a loaf of bread and then make one of those mistakes at the end.
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She likes stirring and mixing and I think kneading would amuse her, as would leaving it in a lump and an hour later it being all huge. I guess I should go online and look for a recipe. And buy some yeast- I have a packet in here, but it is like 6 years old.
