posted
Ok, just as I'm trying to back off Hatrack, this story comes out. Apparently, PETA has asked Ben & Jerry's to replace cow milk with human milk in their ice cream.
My first thought was... ew, then what would they name the flavor... Boobie Fruity (let me know if that is bad and I will edit it out, but I would say that in Mr. Cards living room)?
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Personally, I find it odd that we actually prefer to drink milk from a completely different species, several species in fact if we consider other kinds of milk, but that we find it gross to drink human milk.
Technically, many of us did drink human milk at one point anyways ...
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Yeah it is funny that drinking milk from a cow seems natural and good and wholesome but drinking human milk sounds disgusting. =)
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quote:Originally posted by Mucus: Personally, I find it odd that we actually prefer to drink milk from a completely different species, several species in fact if we consider other kinds of milk, but that we find it gross to drink human milk.
Technically, many of us did drink human milk at one point anyways ...
...when we were babies. Most of the things we did when we were babies get left behind. Losing the urge to feed on "mother's milk" is natural.
PETA's letter reminds me of a really creepy article I read back in 1998, written by a woman who saw nothing wrong with breastfeeding her five year old son, who wondered why people thought she was doing something unhealthy.
At one stage, yeah, it's great. But one grows past it... Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
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I eat beef too, but I don't eat people. I don't know what breast milk tastes like, so I don't know how the ice cream would taste. It may be perfectly fine, but I don't want any.
As far as PETA wanting to use human milk rather than cow milk because of the way cows are treated, what do they think would happen to people. This sounds like an opportunity to exploit the underprivileged. Plus, aren't they vegetarians and vegans? Wouldn't eating ice cream made from human milk be the same as that made from cow milk?
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quote:I don't know what breast milk tastes like, so I don't know how the ice cream would taste.
Naturally sweeter than cow milk, often with a kind of fruity aftertaste (like after you eat a honeydew or canteloupe, that kind of aftertaste.)
And the flavor can vary with what you eat before the milk is produced.
For the record, I do not want to drink another woman's breastmilk, thank you very much, but I have licked it off my hand and then scrubbed my hand with a baby wipe plenty of times when I did not want to get up to wash them off... I'm lazy that way.
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Most countries that are traditional bastions of baby-wearing are also extended breastfeeding countries.
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quote:I don't know what breast milk tastes like, so I don't know how the ice cream would taste.
Naturally sweeter than cow milk, often with a kind of fruity aftertaste (like after you eat a honeydew or canteloupe, that kind of aftertaste.)
And the flavor can vary with what you eat before the milk is produced.
For the record, I do not want to drink another woman's breastmilk, thank you very much, but I have licked it off my hand and then scrubbed my hand with a baby wipe plenty of times when I did not want to get up to wash them off... I'm lazy that way.
So if they fed the hypothetical women chocolate it would taste like chocolate? Or if they fed them on a strict diet of vanilla and sugar?
That is just making me picture a futuristic nightmare movie full of women attached to milkers... getting stuffed with chocolate. Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: Weaning after six months? Who does that?
Most countries that are traditional bastions of baby-wearing are also extended breastfeeding countries.
Some seem to ween at 2 or when the kid is ready. (AP people on a site I'm on) I think I've read some books that advice starting solid foods at 6 months or something. But five is a bit... long. I saw some show where the kid was like, 6 or 7 or something. And he could make his own food.
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quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: Those things make breastfeeding past infancy and into childhood make sense?
Depending on how you define "infancy," this is pretty common. The American Association of Pediatrics reccommends nursing until at least one year old, and the World Health Organization reccommends at least age 2. My just-turned-two year old still nurses 2-3 times a day and I don't see that stopping anytime soon.
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I think the issue with saying, "Hey, most of us have already done it!" is that most of us have already ingested secretions from our OWN MOTHERS--not some random person. Since, when we were doing the drinking, it was not that long since we had lived inside of the person now doing the lactating, we didn't really have room to get weird about it. As adults, though, it becomes more of an issue. I know that there are just as many sanitary issues with cow milk, but I think that the different-species thing is an important part of us feeling safe. I guess because the people milking cows are professionals, and the people we generally seeing milking women have no motor skills and smell like vomit.
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(Oh, and FYI-- to "ween" is to suppose or imagine. To "wean" is to discontinue something, as breastfeeding, usually gradually. )
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quote:Originally posted by Hank: Since, when we were doing the drinking, it was not that long since we had lived inside of the person now doing the lactating, we didn't really have room to get weird about it. As adults, though, it becomes more of an issue. I know that there are just as many sanitary issues with cow milk, but I think that the different-species thing is an important part of us feeling safe. I guess because the people milking cows are professionals, and the people we generally seeing milking women have no motor skills and smell like vomit.
quote: I guess because the people milking cows are professionals, and the people we generally seeing milking women have no motor skills and smell like vomit.
Yeah, but lactating women don't spend all day walking around in their own poop.
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I actually don't think this was a serious proposal anyway -- it's an attention grabber and a way to make a point about "stealing" milk from baby cows.
And I wouldn't want to consume milk from an unknown donor or subject women to the kind of controls that would be necessary to insure a healthy milk supply.
And if it were possible to "harvest" large quantities of human milk I think it would be better used to feed babies whose mothers can't or won't breastfeed them, not to make ice cream.
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PETA is trying to get a rise out of people. Apparently, it's working.
Breast milk is sweeter than cow's milk, so given America's sweet tooth they'd probably actually like the breast milk ice cream -- so long as no one told them what was in it.
I've tasted my own breast milk and can't honestly say that I like it, but I am rather used to cow's milk. I gave some to my 2.5-year-old (weaned him at 1.5 so one year later) and he kind of made a face. Guess he got used to the cow's milk already, too.
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: Those things make breastfeeding past infancy and into childhood make sense?
I try not to be judgmental of how long other people nurse. It's a personal decision and there are only 2 relevant players: mom and baby. As long as mom isn't forcing baby to nurse then I don't see the problem with nursing a 5-year-old. It actually takes years for the human immune system to mature and breast milk continues to provide antibodies that can help. The World Health Organization recommends at least 2 years of breast feeding.
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quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: Well, if they can ask for it, you know they are too old.
Um, no.
My oldest daughter signed for it at 2 months, and asked for it verbally at 5 months.
My current baby daughter is 5 months and has been signing for it for about a month now.
I draw the line at "when they are old enough they will have clear memories of it as adults," but that's a personal line which I do not seek to impose on others.
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quote:Originally posted by Elmer's Glue: Well, if they can ask for it, you know they are too old.
What does walking and talking have to do with nursing? There is no medical, emotional, or biological rationale for this perspective. My 4-month-old is already signing for her milk. I guess it's time to quit!
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quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: Most of the things we did when we were babies get left behind.
As a baby, I breathed, cried, laughed, had my cells divide and multiply ... still do all of those at one point or another.
I believe what you mean is that many of the things that babies do *that adults don't do* get left behind, but in a way thats approaching circular as an actual reason to not do them as an adult.
quote:Originally posted by brojack17: ... This sounds like an opportunity to exploit the underprivileged.
You can hire midwives to breastfeed babies, does that count as exploitation too? Interesting.
quote:Originally posted by dkw:
quote: I guess because the people milking cows are professionals, and the people we generally seeing milking women have no motor skills and smell like vomit.
Yeah, but lactating women don't spend all day walking around in their own poop.
Plus, they can actually choose to milk themselves if thats any better, whereas the cows don't get a choice.
On second thought, I honestly have no idea if thats a good argument or a bad argument to convince people. Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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I think the term is "wet nurse". Midwives deliver the babies and wet nurses nurse them, I think.
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And doulas provide labor and/or postpartum support. Often including breastfeeding support and instruction for first-time moms.
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Well either way, it's not going to happen. Were a long way off for a giant company to start making breast milk ice cream because a grop asked them extra nice.
Posts: 549 | Registered: Feb 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Xann.: Well either way, it's not going to happen. Were a long way off for a giant company to start making breast milk ice cream because a grop asked them extra nice.
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There are so many babies whose mothers can't nurse that desperately need any donated breastmilk that I can't imagine ever using it to make ice cream. One of Aerin's NICU neighbors got breastmilk from a milk bank because his mother was on chemo and couldn't nurse him herself. That is who needs any spare breastmilk. It's not easy to get for critically ill babies, so I can't imagine giving (or selling) any to those who don't need it. This is a very precious and limited commodity and to suggest using it for commercial purposes, rather than to help sick children, is awful. I'm sure this is a publicity stunt, but it's pretty sickening.
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A thought occurs, inspired by those kosher food threads that seem to proliferate here.
Is human milk kosher? Is it a recursive thing? (i.e. If "you are what you eat" and you keep kosher, is your breast milk kosher?)
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Let's see, in no particular order... I don't think there's anything inherently gross about adults consuming human breast milk; whatever creepiness you bring to this is your own. On the other hand, I haven't tried it since infancy myself, and don't feel any particular desire to.
PETA is totally trying to get people to think about the comparative ethics involved, rather than really and truly wanting to get Ben & Jerry's to do this, and while I abhor 99.9% of their tactics, this one's actually rather ingenious. And effective, if this thread is any guide. Well done.
posted
I don't see animals and humans as on par with each other, so I would have no problem wearing a fur to a PETA meeting while eating ice cream, and then breaking out a burger.
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