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All right, I've got 2 cats -- one male one female -- about 4.5 years old. We got them a little over 4 years ago and in that time they have just cost us a lot of money.
I don't see them pee. The litter boxes (2) are changed every other day (by my husband since I'm pregnant) and according to him they do pee in the litter box. But they also seem to pee other places -- how often or how much I have no idea at all. It's not like they do it in front of me.
For a while, it was our nursery. I took some small comfort in the fact that it made some psychological sense -- new baby moves in and cats get upset so they pooped and peed in the corner of his room. We are currently getting estimates on replacing the carpet in time for our new baby. Mostly, I thought they were pooping there, but the smells and the amount of damage indicate that they were peeing in there as well, probably much more than I guessed.
Then yesterday, we found another out of the way corner of the house where they have been peeing with unknown frequency and quantity for some amount of time. This carpet, too, will need replacing.
Shortly after we got them we moved into an apartment for a year and once again, never caught them peeing anywhere. When we moved out, the management charged us $1500 for replacing the carpet and we thought they were exaggerating or nuts but now I don't think so.
My 2-year-old loves them and I love the idea of him having animals around, but I just can't continue to spend hundreds of dollars fixing the damage that these cats do.
All the behavioral modification techniques I can find rely on me being able to pay 24-7 attention to them but I can't.
So, cat lovers/owners -- do you have any ideas about how I could solve this problem short of getting rid of the cats (which has definitely crossed my mind)?
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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First thing is you need to de-scent the places where they are already peeing. This may include carpet and pad replacement and serious scrubbing/disinfecting before the new carpet is laid, especially if they've been using a spot for long enough that their urine has soaked through to the floor. They will continue to use a spot that smells like their leavings. There are several odor-eliminator products in both the petstore and the grocery store, I used one called "Kids N Pets" when my cats first came home and had a few accidents.
It may be worthwhile - after cleaning - to put small litterboxes in the places they're soiling so they have an appropriate target, and then slowly moving the boxes away from those spots to get the cats to relocate their urges. Leave their main box where it is, you don't want to break the link to that location.
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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The only thing I can think of to contribute is that my vet has told me over and over again that when multiple live in the same house, there are always problems, but when you only have one cat, it hardly ever has problems. Maybe you would consider getting rid of only one of the cats? Cats are not social animals and I doubt they would mind being parted. I have no idea how tensions between the two cats could lead to peeing in inappropriate places, but of course we don't understand what goes on in their minds and there may well be a connection. Ask your vet abou it.
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You could try No Stay or this nifty product I just recently learned about and may use to keep the cats from jumping on the top of the stair railing.
Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Tara -- that's interesting, because all I keep thinking about as this is going on is that I never had problems with the cat I knew and loved growing up...the reason I got cats as an adult (my husband doesn't want them). But there was only one of him. These two have had problems from the start. The male used to keep the female from using the litter boxes when they were kittens. For all I know, he's still doing that, although we thought we put an end to it.
rollainm -- interesting idea. I wonder how badly that smells.
Goody Scrivener -- already being done. In fact, we tried to just kilz the subfloor and replace the pad in the nursery before we realized it wasn't working and the carpet had to go. We'll treat the new area the same way before fixing it.
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quote:Originally posted by Tara: Cats are not social animals and I doubt they would mind being parted.
While this may be true for some (and maybe even most - I don't know) cats, I do know that every cat I've had in my lifetime - and I've had quite a few - has been very emotionally attached to its siblings. I would definitely not just get rid of one. In fact, taking one away could cause some pretty serious emotional damage to the remaining cat, and your current problems may get even worse.
Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tara: Cats are not social animals and I doubt they would mind being parted.
While this may be true for some (and maybe even most - I don't know) cats, I do know that every cat I've had in my lifetime - and I've had quite a few - has been very emotionally attached to its siblings. I would definitely not just get rid of one. In fact, taking one away could cause some pretty serious emotional damage to the remaining cat, and your current problems may get even worse.
I couldn't get rid of one. For one thing, I couldn't choose. For another when we have purposefully separated them, they get very upset. I do think it's an interesting observation, though, that two cats are more likely to cause problems than one. I do know that it's impossible for me to know which cat is peeing on the floor. It may be that if we decide to get a new cat in the future, that we stick to one from the start.
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Whoever came up with the idea that cats are not social animals is a nutjob. Of the 5 I've owned, every single one has been social, even the ones that seem standoffish. It wasn't until a cat pair became a solo cat that it became noticeable, but they are definitely social animals.
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quote:Originally posted by Tara: Cats are not social animals and I doubt they would mind being parted.
While this may be true for some (and maybe even most - I don't know) cats, I do know that every cat I've had in my lifetime - and I've had quite a few - has been very emotionally attached to its siblings. I would definitely not just get rid of one. In fact, taking one away could cause some pretty serious emotional damage to the remaining cat, and your current problems may get even worse.
This is my experience as well. My cats are very social with one another and with us.
As to the peeing problem - maybe it's the kitty litter? I was using feline pine for a while and after a short while, my female refused to use the litter box. So we're back on standard clumping clay litter.
Also, I've been told that the chemicals used to produce some carpets - especially rubber backed bathroom carpets - smell enough like urea to cats to make them want to mark the rugs. My female did this for while (she's all sorts of trouble) until we got non-rubber backed bathroom rugs. I've no idea if that applies to you or not, though.
Also, it's quite possible that there's some physiological reason that your cats are doing this, so it may be worthwhile to take them to the vet to get checked out.
Posts: 959 | Registered: Jan 2002
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I could certainly understand the one cat theory if the cat is used to being alone from the start.
They're complex creatures, though. One thing to remember is that they're not machines, and sometimes you can't just "fix" a problem. Sometimes it's just a phase. It's also possible that the cat has a medical issue, so maybe a trip to a vet (or two or three) is in order.
In my personal experience, though, when a cat starts peeing where it shouldn't it generally means they're...(ahem)...pissed off about something, so that's something else to look into. Maybe there's something you can do to appease them.
Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Oh one more thing. It's recommended by many that you have one more litter box than the number of cats you have, and at least one on every level of the house. Maybe they just need more places to go.
Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: Have you taken the cat to the vet to see if it needs to have it's anal glands expressed?
Hah! I missed this somehow. One of our cats actually had to have her glands removed because they were causing her such grief. Come to think of it, she did become significantly less rambunctious after the surgery.
Posts: 1945 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by rollainm: Oh one more thing. It's recommended by many that you have one more litter box than the number of cats you have, and at least one on every level of the house. Maybe they just need more places to go.
There is no way I'm putting a litter box in my bedroom!
I took my cats to the vet a year ago to rule out physical problems...no physical problems but nothing's changed except that things are more expensive and I'm getting angrier with them. Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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My current single cat has urination problems due to cystitis (i think that's what the vet and my mom call it). The food he ate causes crystals to form in his urine that hurt. He then assumes that peeing in the box makes him hurt so he started peeing on the couch and in a corner in the basement. We switched foods and he has not had the problem at all now.
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Christine, I do have a litter box in my bedroom and I honestly do not smell anything so long as I clean it out regularly. I do have a little bit of litter on the floor all the time as it escapes the box when they scratch n cover.
I know that I absolutely could not separate my older two cats at all, and taking the baby away would be problematic as well. They're littermates and are constantly cuddled up together. The younger one has the same mother (we have no idea on the father) and the older two would be thrilled if he were gone, but I know that the younger would be very lonely without his big sibs.
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I can empathize, Christine! We've been dealing with the same thing (only we know which cat it is and it's been happening off and on for the last year or so). I have to try really hard not to think of the things she has ruined (furniture, etc.) or I get really mad. She did have some urinary crystals, but has been on prescription food for about 6 months now, so I know they're no longer a problem. The vet even suggested we may have to resort to anti-anxiety medication (she's a very sensitive, shy, anxious kitty). We've had pretty good luck lately. We added yet another litterbox and each one now has a different type of litter in it (of course our different cats each seem to prefer different litter). I have also blocked her access to some of her favorite places. I don't know if we've "cured" her of the issue, but it's been a while (a couple months I think) since she's surprised us (and I've started experimenting with uncovering some of her past places). We think it may have been because one of the other cats was blocking her access to the litterbox, but we weren't able to confirm it. Is there any way for you to tell if one is blocking the other?
I hope you're able to find a good solution! If you do, I'd love to hear it!
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The most common reason for cats to pee outside the litter box is if it's dirty. Cats are very fastidious. If you don't provide a clean place for them to go, then they'll go somewhere cleaner. Make sure they always have a clean box.
The next most common reason for cats to pee in the wrong places is if they have a medical problem, like cystitis. Definitely let the vet check them out to see if there are medical reasons for this to happen.
Finally, I want to recommend Resolve for getting cat pee out of carpets. Spray the spot well, then scrub with a scrub brush to work it deep down into the fibers. Then use an absorbent rag to wipe it up. I use an old sweatshirt turned inside out. Scrub then wipe in every different direction to get as much up as possible. You can spray then wipe several times, as well. The smell of Resolve isn't unpleasant to humans, it smells sort of clean I guess, but cats don't like it and it has the additional feature that it discourages them from using that spot again.
Good luck figuring it out, whatever is causing it, and fixing it. I've never found it to be just a behavioral problem. There's always a real reason that you can fix.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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I don't think you've said anywhere but have they been fixed? I'm kind of assuming they are since you have one of each gender and don't have kittens. If only one of them is fixed it's possible that the non-fixed cat is doing all of the marking. Unfortunately, once a cat starts urine marking, having the animal fixed often doesn't correct the issue, because it has become habit, but it might help.
If there are any kitten owners out there that haven't had their animal spayed or neutered, I encourage you to do it once they reach the appropriate age and weight. It may prevent this kind of issue from starting in the first place. With females it's also easier to have them fixed at a younger age. Once an adult female starts going in to heat, you have to find a time when she's not in heat to have her spayed. You can have females spayed while they are in heat, but it costs quite a bit more. Also, any adult female that isn't going to be having kittens should be spayed to prevent health problems.
I suppose that became something of a rant, but I had a roommate in the same situation. We'd have been much better off if her animals had been fixed earlier and she's now much more diligent with any new cats she gets about having them fixed early on.
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You can try liberal application of enzyme cleaners (available at pet stores) or Oxyclean to the areas where they have been peeing. We've got a cat that pees all over the place and using these products we've always been able to get rid of the stains and odors. Be warned though: both of these products will cause the area to stink *more* at first, as they seem to be kicking the stinkify process into overdrive until there's nothing left to generate stink.
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007
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ludosti: We knew that the male was keeping the female from the litter box when they were kittens because we saw him do it. We also saw her use the bathroom outside the litter box. I guess when they were younger, they didn't know to hide this behavior from us. Plus, at the time, we did have a litter box in the bedroom because we lived in such a small place. Never again!
If he's continuing to do it as an adult, it's hard to tell. I think he would still like her not to use his litter boxes, but as we punished both of them every time we found a mess from one, I think he got the idea.
Oh, and yes, they're both fixed.
I may try putting different types of litter out to see if that works. I think part of the trouble is that I honestly don't believe they're doing this regularly. I think they're doing it *from time to time* and I don't know why that would be. Most of what I've read about problems involve cats who are consistently peeing outside the litter box.
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I've never found punishment to be a helpful strategy with cats. All it does it cause more problems, in my experience. Punishing them about their litter box behavior just makes it a lot harder to figure out what's actually the problem and solve it.
I know that dogs and children need discipline and structure and rules. It seems like cats would respond to that approach too but they just don't, in my experience. The approach that I've found to be the most fruitful and happy is to change something in the environment to encourage what I do want to happen or discourage what I don't want to happen. Like you can fight battles for years using punishment without success, and then find a simple change, like keeping the chairs pushed in all the time to discourage cats from getting up on the table, or keeping the litter boxes very clean to encourage them to use them, will work right away without any unpleasantness or frustration.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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The general rule is # of cats + 1 = # of litter boxes you should have.
There are many things you could try. First of all, make sure you clean out the litter box regularly. Some cats are ok if it is a little dirty whereas other cats don't even like to poop in the same box where they just peed. Giving the cats more choices of places to go may afford you a little extra time in between cleaning.
Another option is to try different litters. They may not be going in the box because the texture is unpleasing. I have heard a lot of anecdotal evidence that cats do not tend to like clay-based litter. Since you are having problems, I would recommend trying a finer-grain litter. Offering choices is a good way to go as well. Place two litter boxes side-by-side with two separate litters in each. You can determine their preference by which box has the excrement in it. I would recommend trying this several times with several different litters. It is also possible they would like more litter in the box. Maybe you do not fill it very high and they would prefer more litter.
Also, definitely try to clean the areas they have previously gone with some type of enzyme-based cleaner to get out the smell.
Do you know that it is definitely both of your cats peeing outside of the litter box? A signalment of pee on horizontal surfaces indicates spraying/marking and is usually performed by males (though it does happen with females). However, if it is on a vertical surface then this may indicate they do not like their litter box, there are not enough litter boxes, their litter box is too full, or that they have a medical problem. If you ever notice them straining to urinate or seem to be in pain, I would take them to the vet immediately.
I have some more advice if these things do not work, but I highly recommend giving these options a good chance. Good luck!
Posts: 306 | Registered: Jun 2003
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"In my personal experience, though, when a cat starts peeing where it shouldn't it generally means they're...(ahem)...pissed off about something"
Yep. This may not be true in this case, I don't know, but my cat has definitely done this. She used to go pee on my ex's clothes when displeased. John Steinbeck also mentioned a cat that used to wait until his father (Steinbeck's dad) was underneath him (the cat would hang out in high spots) and then pee on Steinbeck's dad.
Posts: 3354 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Christine: If he's continuing to do it as an adult, it's hard to tell. I think he would still like her not to use his litter boxes, but as we punished both of them every time we found a mess from one, I think he got the idea.
I had the opposite problem with our cats. One of my females refused to use any litterbox that the male had used (and he was willing to use any and all of them.) So until I figured that out, she surreptiously peed in hidden corners. Luckily, the male was old and overweight, and was unable to jump or climb, so it was easy enough to segregate a litterbox for her by placing it on a table. If he had been more agile, we would have had to completely segregate the cats, which would have been very difficult or impossible.
quote:Originally posted by Christine: All right, I've got 2 cats -- one male one female -- about 4.5 years old. We got them a little over 4 years ago and in that time they have just cost us a lot of money.
I don't see them pee. The litter boxes (2) are changed every other day (by my husband since I'm pregnant) and according to him they do pee in the litter box. But they also seem to pee other places -- how often or how much I have no idea at all. It's not like they do it in front of me.
For a while, it was our nursery. I took some small comfort in the fact that it made some psychological sense -- new baby moves in and cats get upset so they pooped and peed in the corner of his room. We are currently getting estimates on replacing the carpet in time for our new baby. Mostly, I thought they were pooping there, but the smells and the amount of damage indicate that they were peeing in there as well, probably much more than I guessed.
Then yesterday, we found another out of the way corner of the house where they have been peeing with unknown frequency and quantity for some amount of time. This carpet, too, will need replacing.
Shortly after we got them we moved into an apartment for a year and once again, never caught them peeing anywhere. When we moved out, the management charged us $1500 for replacing the carpet and we thought they were exaggerating or nuts but now I don't think so.
My 2-year-old loves them and I love the idea of him having animals around, but I just can't continue to spend hundreds of dollars fixing the damage that these cats do.
All the behavioral modification techniques I can find rely on me being able to pay 24-7 attention to them but I can't.
So, cat lovers/owners -- do you have any ideas about how I could solve this problem short of getting rid of the cats (which has definitely crossed my mind)?
Is still you are facing the problem>
Posts: 1 | Registered: Feb 2021
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quote:Originally posted by steven: "In my personal experience, though, when a cat starts peeing where it shouldn't it generally means they're...(ahem)...pissed off about something"
Yep. This may not be true in this case, I don't know, but my cat has definitely done this. She used to go pee on my ex's clothes when displeased. John Steinbeck also mentioned a cat that used to wait until his father (Steinbeck's dad) was underneath him (the cat would hang out in high spots) and then pee on Steinbeck's dad.
I love that I can simultaneously quote my own post from 13 years ago AND laugh at cat pee spam.
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