I was not aware that socialism means the president should not have a limited number of terms. Bravo to the Venezuelan students for apparently being the extra *umf* needed to push the nay sayers into the majority.
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Hopefully the economy will be salvageable after he leaves office. He's already done considerable damage to important companies like food manufacturers and grocers, using price controls to try to deal with increasing prices . . . meaning that it is no longer profitable to make the food people need, so companies stop making the food.
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We will see if he really does that in the near future, I imagine. He is in power until 2013 at least....
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quote:Originally posted by Bokonon: I'm impressed that one of the many so-called despots put up his changes to a vote, and accepted the answer he didn't want.
-Bok
I don't see it that way. I think Chavez assumed he had the support to get this passed without using the power to govern, "by decree," as this defeat tails a chain of successes. If he uses that power now in the wake of a defeat he lose even more support. He miscalculated, I hope this is the beginning of trend of rollbacks from the direction he has taken Venezuela.
edit: The fact he was shocked that so many people broke ranks and voted against him, and that many of his supporter base didn't even show up to vote is a major reason I think Chavez simply miscalculated rather then Chavez wants to use the Democratic process for the sake of Democracy.
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Trying to get people to democratically get rid of term limits and increase your power to act unilaterally does not impress me with your love of democracy.
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You know, we don't have term limits on the Prime Ministership here in Canada. Jean Chrétien was Prime Minister for 10 years.
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Also, I think Mackenzie King pulled five terms (20+ years) and Trudeau pulled 3 terms (12 years or so), although not consecutively.
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Yeah, 21 years in office. Though I think that says more about the era in which he was Prime Minister, as he wasn't a very personal/social guy if I recall correctly.
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And the US had no term limits until the 40s/50s.
Am I saying he's a paragon of democratic virtue? No. But is he as bad as Castro, Hussein, or Putin? I think this election (which was watched and determined to be largely free of any voter fraud) proves that he does respect the will of those he is an elected official of, even when it's not what he wants.
Now, if in the next few months, he finds a back-door way of implementing his "reforms" without putting it to the people, then I think distinction is almost completely meaningless. -Bok
Posts: 7021 | Registered: Nov 1999
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No, Chavez respects the fact that the military has thus far shown respect for the results of elections. Overly aggressive tampering with the election could have easily triggered a military coup "to restore democracy". Especially since the referendum would have granted him the right to replace senior officers at*will.
What I don't understand is how 49% of the voters could have thought it would be a good idea to give Chavez the discretion to control Venezuela's US$60billion in oil revenues as his personal funds. Considering that comes out to over $2,000 per man, woman, and child -- ~$5,000 per worker -- and ~37% of the population lives on less than $730 per year with ~9percent living on less than $365 per year, he's already massively screwing over the most of the "peasants" he claims as his base in order to bribe members of his party's political machinery. Such bribery made obvious by the fact that Venezuela is suffering from HIGH inflation even though the overwhelming supermajority of people aren't any better off financially. After factoring in inflation for equivalent purchasing power, ya'd hafta go back 100years to find a time when median incomes were lower than they've become under the Chavez government.
The only possible purpose for gaining that level of control would be to loot the Venezuelan economy in order to stuff money into his own personal accounts in non**Venzuelan banks. And since the referendum would have made such transfers legal, the money in those personal accounts would belong to Chavez even if the Venezuelans decided to toss him out for corruption.
* I think I read that in a scan-thru of a synopsis of the referendum. ** Including starting one of his own, Banco del Sur, to "compete as an alternative to the InternationalMonetaryFund."
Chavez essentially used his dictatorial power to enact much of what was voted against last December. Included are a significant uptick in local militias (tasked with enforcing Chavez's policies on the neighborhood level), central control of agriculture and retail, and increased state control of "publicity" (propaganda). All classic signs of an entrenching dictator-for-life. We'll have the pleasure of Chavez's company for many long years, as Venezuela continues to descend (further) into chaos and poverty.
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quote:Originally posted by Bokonon: Now, if in the next few months, he finds a back-door way of implementing his "reforms" without putting it to the people, then I think distinction is almost completely meaningless.
quote:Originally posted by Bokonon: Now, if in the next few months, he finds a back-door way of implementing his "reforms" without putting it to the people, then I think distinction is almost completely meaningless.
Prescient.
I think you meant, obvious.
Posts: 1621 | Registered: Oct 2001
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Is it too late to trade fuel oil for copy's of "The Gulag Archipelago" shipped directly to the people of Venezuela?
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This is certainly a set back, but at least term limits are still in force. Too bad even that seems tenuous at this junction.
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