posted
I saw this video months back, and then did some research on it. Here's the funny thing...jugglers HATE this video.
Apparently, they seem to dislike the fact that Bliss is getting credit for a relatively simple three ball routine. (It's not simple to me, but apparently it is to professional jugglers).
One particularly bitter juggler posted this in retaliation. Enjoy. Posts: 3852 | Registered: Feb 2002
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Wow. To both of them. Bliss's three ball juggling isn't super tough stuff, but it looks cool and gets an emotional response, which is what he was after.
That five ball routine was pretty dang sweet. Some of the stuff he does at the end blew me away. Wow.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
To be fair, a lot of jugglers aren't that fond of Garfield either. There's a pretty big rift between his group and the IJA right now.
Yes. There is an international community of jugglers that's way to caught up with politics right now. Nothing is innocent forever.
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
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He was the first guy to do it as far as I can tell. Doing something difficult is not the only thing that makes a juggler fun to watch. Being innovative and unique is just as important IMO.
Beethoven's music may not have been the most difficult to play, he does have some doozy pieces in that regagrd however. But his most memorable pieces were powerful for the unique emotions they invoked.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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It was Penn Jillette (who despite being a magician, refers to himself as a juggler) who got Garfield to do his retaliation.
I heard about it on Penn's old radio show. He went into a long, joking diatribe about how all jugglers are bitter and hateful (he included himself, and Michael Goudeau, his co-host and fellow juggler). And so he wanted to start a fun little controversy by having Garfield do the same routine but with more balls.
I think they're both pretty cool.
Posts: 3852 | Registered: Feb 2002
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I think the objection to the Bliss video is that people were calling it things like "best juggling ever" and "amazing juggling video", which just goes to point out how out of touch most jugglers are with their audiences. And how naive most people are about juggling, but this should come as no surprise. (Audience member: "z0mg, that's the most amazing thing evar!" Juggler: "but it isn't even hard!")
But there is plenty of juggling out there that is both amazing (I mean really amazing, to jugglers too) and inventive.
quote:Originally posted by Strider: nice use of The Bealtes. The retaliation video blew that first one away.
It really didn't, you know. The bitter juggler couldn't do it with a single camera. You can tell from all the cutaways that his video was stitched together. So I don't care if he used 5 balls or 20 -- it wasn't as good. And there's more to Bliss's act than just the juggling. What he did fit the music better.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Hey Mike! Did Vladik take over for Victor? Clearly there's some contiguity there.
Additionally, Jason Garfield is known as a jerk as well as an excellent technical juggler.
Personally (as an aspiring juggler myself) I've always felt there's a hugh difference between being a good juggler and a good performer. Many jugglers are primarily interested in the difficulty or intricacy of their tricks and sets. A good performer has to be more aware of audience reaction, which often has little to do with difficulty. More difficult tricks often get lost on audiences if they are too subtle or fast-moving. Also, I feel the most enjoyable acts involve more than straight juggling, like the movement in Vladik's act, or the rhythm's in Chris Bliss'.
I am not at all a fan of Garfield, mainly because he takes the performace aspect out of juggling in trying to make it a "serious sport." I would argue that gymnastics is a serious sport that still places emphasis on performance and that juggling becomes far less interesting to watch if you're just trying to to the hardest tricks you can without making them look cool. So I think his response is very cool, but Bliss does a much better job synchronizing his act to the music.
Also, I just saw Anthony Gatto in Cirque du Soleil on Wednesday night (a good friend of mine is also in that show) and it was amazing. My friend also said that when Gatto is practicing that trick where he is juggling 5 rings and flips them up onto the hook (for example) he practices it with 9 rings! Apparently he has never dropped in performance, and if he can do all his tricks with twice as many props I believe it. Posts: 3420 | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:Hey Mike! Did Vladik take over for Victor? Clearly there's some contiguity there.
Hey Eric! Hmm, I'm not sure, but I think that's the plan. Hard to keep track of these things. I mean, when I first saw that video of Gatto in Kooza I thought to myself, "huh, he's pretty good, I wonder if I've seen him before." And then I looked at the tags for the video.
Dragon, I agree. Good to hear Kooza was good. Is Jacob enjoying himself so far? I'm looking forward to them coming to SF in November.
Posts: 1810 | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
That second juggler was ten times better with one cut than the first one was with the continual shot. I would much rather watch someone do difficult and cool looking juggling than any artsy synchronizing to the music. Bliss was absolutely boring and the second guy had me gasping - although I have seen better than him as well.
Posts: 2207 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Okay, I watched them both (Bliss and Vladik) without sound, and I preferred Bliss. I can see how the tricks were simpler, the whole act was simpler, but all the fancy movement of Vladick's, although complex and probably very difficult, was somehow less engaging- without music.
I think this is because what amazed me about Chris Bliss' routine is that he made it look like he wasn't juggling. The balls were just bouncing off him. I never got that in the Vladik routine. To me, they seemed like completely incomparable routines. Bliss managed to do a routine without motion (he's clearly to old), and it was quite stunning not necessarily from a technical point of view but simply from a visual performance.
Also, I think it's highly, highly amusing how all these jugglers are up in arms.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Do you think Bliss has been practicing that since that song came out? I wonder if he got permission to use it (from Michael Jackson, or whoever holds the rights now)?
This whole thing reminds me of Lord Valentine's Castle and how juggling is totally not about the audience, but much more about the individual juggler's pursuit of his art. In my very primitive juggling experience, I've found that there's no sense at all in expecting audiences to get it or appreciate what you're doing. If you want to please audiences then be a showman. If you want to be a great juggler, then juggle. The two aims are completely different things.
I liked the juggling in Garfield's Bliss Diss, too, but it seems spiteful and envious and mean that he had to do it as a putdown of someone else. I mean, why not just do something completely his own that was better, and let that stand. Why feel the need to specifically put down Bliss just because he had a success? That's the thing I dislike most about both Penn and Teller. They are both of them so spiteful and mean-spirited. I can't admire that. Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Tatiana: That's the thing I dislike most about both Penn and Teller. They are both of them so spiteful and mean-spirited. I can't admire that.
Here I must disagree with you. I think P&T purposefully pretend to be spiteful, but really aren't.
Each time they do a trick and then show how it's done, seemingly to spite other magicians, they mostly invent new trick and expose them or invent new and really strange ways to do old tricks, thus hurting no one else's career.
And that is my defense of Penn & Teller...thank you. Posts: 3852 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
First of all, I like the Bliss routine a lot, even after having it pointed out that there are pros who can do fancier stuff. He's a comedian who tacks one juggling routine at the end of his show, from what I can tell, and it really packs an emotional punch.
That said, the Vova/Fatboy Slim video had me dancing in my chair. That was amazing, and the camera work was great.
Posts: 3149 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tatiana: That's awesome that you can see it so positively!
To be fair, I'm mostly taking their word for it. I was a big fan of the Penn Jillette radio show.
So, for example, they did their "Lift-off for Love" trick at 'America's Got Talent', and when they revealed it Penn said in a mean voice, "Hey Criss Angel, this is for you!"
But Criss Angel was a guest on Penn's show several times and they seem to be good friends. So, I imagine all the meanness is just an act.
Posts: 3852 | Registered: Feb 2002
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Mike, Jacob does seem to be enjoying himself (though he said he isn't working that hard - "I could be a park ranger") and his hand to hand act with Corine is supposed to be the fill-in if it's too windy for the high wire. Apparently Cirque still hasn't written their music, but that's the plan for eventually.
Posts: 3420 | Registered: Jun 2002
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I like Viktor Kee in Cirque Du Soleil's Dralion (warning: he wears a flesh-tone costume that gives the appearance that he is wearing next to nothing). It was one of the first acts I saw that had lots of choreography in it, so I was quite wowwed when I first saw it. Fans of technique will also appreciate that he ends by juggling seven balls.
I really like Bliss' act. While watching it, my reaction wasn't "what amazing juggling!" but "what awesome choreography!". I agree that juggling is both about technical skill and showmanship, and I don't think an act has to be technically difficult for it to be enjoyable.
Posts: 1805 | Registered: Jun 1999
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You'd think so--if he were actually hitting the appropriate keys. The notes are sequenced, so he just bounces at the appropriate times. He could hit anywhere on the keyboard and the next note would come.
As a juggler (a 5 ball flash is the best I can occasionally accomplish), I'll say that some of these tricks aren't very difficult from a technical standpoint, but we shouldn't just discount choreography and showmanship out of hand. My question--are these guys' routines original?
Posts: 433 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
i went to a Cirque du Soleil in atlanta probably about a decade ago and one of the act's was this guy in a blue suit who juggled the balls off the floor. then he stepped into this triangle thingy and juggled the balls off the floor and the two walls. it was the best juggling ive ever seen.
Posts: 813 | Registered: Nov 1999
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that looks more like a clear plastic tube. guy im talking about stepped into a giant hollow triangle and juggled off of it. i think we might have VHS of it somewhere...
Posts: 813 | Registered: Nov 1999
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I must say I'm particular to the Flying Karamazov Brothers when they juggle and play drums and marimba at the same time. It gives a real sense to how rhythmical juggling is, to see that they can find any note they need to hit in the music within the time signature they're juggling in.
Sorry I couldn't find a video posted anywhere.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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I don't think that Michael Moschen was ever in Cirque, but he was the first to use a triangle. http://youtube.com/watch?v=-yiuI04Ak2w&mode=related&search= He was the hands that did the contact juggling in Labirynth and contact juggling is what it is today because of him. He's probably one of my favorite jugglers. It's hard to touch him in terms of influence on the art.
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Fusiachi says that the guy has the piano rigged so that all he has to do it hit the keyboard at the right time and the right note will sound.
I don't know if it's rigged or not, but when the Karamazovs do it they are using acoustic marimbas, and they juggle the mallets. When it's time to play a note, they happen to have a mallet in their hand and they play the note, and then continue right on juggling.
And when they play, it's musically entertaining, not just interesting from a juggling point of view. Of course, the fact that there are four of them playing marimba, drums and the occasional trombone and sax (but not juggling the wind instruments) adds to the musical value.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Bob the Lawyer: that is exactly what the guy did that i was talking about. it was the first time i had ever seen it and it was amazing. that was a cool video.
Posts: 813 | Registered: Nov 1999
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I would much rather watch someone do difficult and cool looking juggling than any artsy synchronizing to the music. Bliss was absolutely boring and the second guy had me gasping - although I have seen better than him as well.
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If you want to please audiences then be a showman. If you want to be a great juggler, then juggle. The two aims are completely different things.![[Frown]](frown.gif)
