posted
I do believe there are more than a few mormons on the board here, so I have a question about the religion. How does the mormon church view the concept of being "saved" or "born again"?
I ask because having been raised catholic, the whole concept kinda puzzles me and I'm not quite sure that I get it. I'm just curious as to how the mormon church views this concept, or if they have a doctrine similar to this?
As far as my thoughts, I am puzzled about the concept. What I always hear is that to be 'saved' you have to accept Jesus as your savior and accept that he died for our sins. But I think there must be more it than that, something people aren't explaining. As a catholic, that's part of the basic tenants of the religion. You kinda have to accept all that to be part of the religion, and that's kinda just something I've always believed. Yet I don't think I'm necessarily 'saved'.
The other part of being 'saved' always seems to involve religion curing some part of a person, helping with a vice or other problem a person had. They get 'saved' and then the problem is gone. It seems as though only people with drug or drinking or womanizing problems ever talk about getting 'saved'. Do people who are just normal and lead okay lives get 'saved'? Or is it just that people with bad pasts talk about that a lot more than normal people?
This isn't meant to upset or insult anyone. I just kinda wanted a different perspective of the whole concept. I would like to hear that perspective, or any other thoughts people have.
Posts: 1042 | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm not LDS; I'm Catholic (former Protestant). I have heard other Catholics discuss what you can say if a Protestant asks you if you're born again.
But these aren't Protestant terms; they're from the Gospels, and other parts of the New Testament. Protestant perspective is that believing in Christ saves you (but then, that's also our perspective). Sometimes when people make this decision, the outcomes go along with visible changes in behavior. (But shouldn't all of us have improvements in our character -- whether it's spectacular or not?)
posted
Well, for Mormons the idea of "Saved" is probably closer to the Catholic view as articulated by yourself; puzzling. There is in LDS theology the idea of a Coversion and Change of Heart, but that is not the same as saved. It is a change of path and not the destination.
Salvation, in LDS terms, is something that happens in the next life and not this one. True, the Atonement of Jesus Christ is always available to "wipe away" sins and help us Spiritually draw close to God in such a way that we can become worthy of salvation. However, the "Saved" concept is left to the final judgement when everyone's eternal "fate" will be decided. Otherwise, the only way toward true and final salvation is to endure this life in faith until the end.
edit: WillB, well said. A Mormon could have written that same thing. The difference is, however, that when a Protestant says it they mean once and for all saved. In other words, for many of them it is an end and not a means.
Posts: 2207 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
stihl1, the phrase, in the way you're quoting it is used by some (not all) branches of evangelical Protestantism to refer to a conversion experience. It’s the equivalent (in other circles) to “becoming a Christian” or your “spiritual birthday.” Those who use it that way believe that even if you were raised in the faith, there is a point at which you come to believe for yourself, and that is when you are “saved,” “born again,” “become a Christian” or whatever language that particular group uses. This is generally different from denominations where children are raised in the faith and expected to go through preparatory classes and make their profession of faith at a certain age (through confirmation, if they were baptized as infants, or baptism, in those denominations that don’t baptize infants). Folks who had a dramatic conversion experience tend to have more memorable stories (instant recovery from alcoholism, drug use, prostitution, various splashy and spectacular sins) but you’ll also find many folks who lived quiet lives according to the tenets of their religion and then just one day “knew for themselves” that it was true, or similar experience. Maybe they don’t tell their stories as loudly, or maybe they just aren’t as memorable.
And to nuance what Occaisional said, a Calvinist would mean “once and for all saved.” But not all Protestants are Calvinist.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
It's a very emotional experience for some people. And for those who have an emotional conversion experience, the less emotional ones may be slightly suspect.
Posts: 834 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
dkw, what you describe fits almost exactly with what us LDS call "conversion." We often talk about what it means to be "truly converted" and that even those raised in the Church need to "become converted." We are also to seek continual conversion, to study and fast and pray and live our lives in such a way that we are "converted" over and over. We also talk of "coming unto Christ", which is sometimes similar and sometimes the same in meaning (depending on who's saying it and in what context.)
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
In Judaism, we don't have the "being saved" thing. We do have "teshuvah", which is repentance. Someone who led a non-observant life and decided to follow a more observant practice is called "baal teshuvah", but this is not usually a big dramatic thing, with attendant miracles. In fact, the change more typically comes on gradually, with the person taking on one commandment, then another (perhaps trying to eat only kosher food, then to observe the Sabbath, then to pray once a day, then three times a day...).
But there are plenty enough commandments that no one out there is perfect in their observance of all of them, so there is the opportunity for everyone to do teshuvah.
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
The unfortunate experience I had in High School was that students would use "being saved" as a way to separate themselves from one another. A group of kids from one church would question kids from another church, and find out they hadn't been "saved", and proceed to tell them that their religious experiences and church life were invalid, because they were missing out on being "saved" by Jesus.
So in my mind, churches who insist on some sort of being saved are often trying to find a way to set themselves up as the REAL church.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I just see it as a time when you accept Christianity for yourself. You might be an adult who never believed, but now you do...or you might be a teen who went to church because your parents said to, but now you really believe in Christ yourself. I grew up in the Church, so for me it was different from someone who suddenly realized that Christianity was for them. However, I can pinpoint a time when I realized that I didn't believe because my parents believed...but because I had my own faith.
It doesn't have to be some sort of big event (ie: when you are baptized, or with a preacher or something). For me, I was sitting alone thinking.
Posts: 1901 | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I just often feel that when I'm asked the 'saved' question, that I'm missing out somehow on what they are talking about. I was raised to believe in Jesus and what He did. I often wonder if maybe I'm missing out on that, is there something else there I'm supposed to know about or understand?
Primarily the kind of people I am talking about are evangelical types. It seems to me that these people are particularly more involved or wrapped up in their religion. To be honest, a bit too involved for my tastes. I guess being raised a catholic I just don't understand the evangelical faiths. Catholics are a bit more reserved, definitely not as boisterous, and more methodical about their faith.
I have an ex girlfriend who is very involved in her religion, some brand of evanglicalism, that spends a lot of time trying to talk to me and convert me into her religion. Talking to her and trying to understand her religion is very confusing. She is a great example of why I don't understand the 'saved' thing. When she talks about it, she talks about how her religion has changed her life. Basically Jesus has help to solve all of her personal problems and she is better off now because of that. Whereas that's probably a good thing for her in particular, because she certainly had a lot of problems, it confuses me. Everything she talks about now comes back to her religion. Every thought she has, everything she talks about, every thing goes back to her religion and God.
Now, that is not necessarily a bad thing, I suppose. But it kinda scares me. Because although I do believe in Jesus and what He did, I don't run my life through God or religion. And this is often a theme I see with 'saved' people. Everything they talk about has God in there somewhere. So I assume that being 'saved' also has a lot to do with changing your way of thinking and acting and how you live your life. At least that's the way it comes off to me.
And although I am more than willing to bring more religion and belief into my life, I am certainly not willing to change everything I do and believe to conform to that kind of standard. I don't have vises that I'm looking to cure or personal problems I want Jesus to fix. I just want to more about religion and God. Although I'm not a perfect person, I am not looking for a change in my life. And I'm not necessarily sure there has to be a change like that to be a better person or closer to God.
I guess in my head, what I always invision, or the goal I always have in exploring my faith is a gradual increased understanding and gradually growing closer to God. It kinda spooks me out how people have these sudden conversions where they are now a different person and everything is all better, all their problems are solved. For me, it's about learning and becoming closer to God with growth of my faith. Not a sudden jump like that.
The other issue I have is that I am a very independent, individualistic kind of person. I really enjoy learing and undestanding, and I prefer to explore and find things out on my own. I value holding my own opinions and conclusions based on learning, etc. It seems to me that so many of these 'saved' people kinda give that all up and just accept things at face value. Frankly, it seems like so many of these people just become automitons that regurgitate what their religion tells them. That scares me, and doesn't interest me.
So I guess the bottom line is, I don't really know that I believe in the being 'saved' thing, and I am pretty sure I don't agree with the evangelical view of religion. I guess I have a different view based on my catholic upbringing. But I also don't agree with the catholic view either. I feel like I'm kinda in a limbo, looking for a religion that fits neither and I've got nowhere to turn.
Posts: 1042 | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
When I was around nine or ten, a Baptist kid told me that Mormons weren't going to heaven because they hadn't been "saved." As a Mormon, I wasn't used to the terminology and asked exactly what he meant. He told me that I had to pray to Jesus and tell him that I accepted him in to my heart as my Lord and Savior. That sounded perfectly in line with my beliefs so I said I would do that. He looked confused, as though wrestling with contradictary teachings, and then said the he guessed I was a special Mormon.
That was about my only experience with "saving". I attended a liberal Methodist chuch for about a year and I don't remember ever hearing the term used in that way.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:It kinda spooks me out how people have these sudden conversions where they are now a different person and everything is all better, all their problems are solved.
I agree that this is not the best method of personal change. The idea of being a new person that is no longer fully responsible for the things they've done in the past is appealing. And I think that's far from limmited to "being saved." But I think it denotes a lack of appreciation for the learning power of mistakes. It seems to me that people who cling to new beginnings prefer to linger in guilt about the past instead of learn and grow from it. I find that disheartening.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
stihl, I'll suggest that you go with the "growing closer to God" rather than the "looking for a religion" -- at least, I suspect you'll find it more appealing -- I do, anyway. But however it is that you phrase it: what are you looking for?
[ January 28, 2007, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: Will B ]
Posts: 1877 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Will B: stihl, I'll suggest that you go with the "growing closer to God" rather than the "looking for a religion" -- at least, I suspect you'll find it more appealing -- I do, anyway. But however it is that you phrase it: what are you looking for?
That's kind of the stance I've been taking. However, I would like to find a church to join and a community to be a part of, to help in the exploring of religion.
I guess I always feel wrong or that I'm missing something in not jumping on the being 'saved' bandwagon. So many other people seem to be on there. Frankly, I think it's overrated and not what it seems.
Posts: 1042 | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
What I want to be able to do is learn about God and religion and be able to discuss and dialogue with people about it. Accepting things at face value and just toeing the company line isn't good enough for me. And I'm definitely not looking to change myself or become a different person or use God or religion as a crutch. So much of what I see in organized religions is based on those things. I just want to be able to learn, be a part of a church and community. I definitely don't want to be a part of the type of people like my ex is involved with.
Posts: 1042 | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
What is it about your current Catholic community that isn't working for you?
Also, I can't think of any religion, even ones that emphasize a more gradual growing closer to God, that isn't going to change you if you get serious about it. That's part of what "Growing closer to God" means, neh?
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by dkw: What is it about your current Catholic community that isn't working for you?
Also, I can't think of any religion, even ones that emphasize a more gradual growing closer to God, that isn't going to change you if you get serious about it. That's part of what "Growing closer to God" means, neh?
I don't have a catholic community because I gave up on that religion a long time ago.
Changing me a little bit is okay, becoming a different person entirely isn't what I'm looking for. I have this mental picture in my head of certain religious people. They remind me of the Star Trek episode where the flowers spit those spores out and turn everyone into brain washed happy people. I don't want to turn into a brain washed automiton, and I don't think you have to in order to be religious. And I don't think it's an overnight, sudden change if it does happen. I think it's something you gradually work on and become over time.
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:Because although I do believe in Jesus and what He did, I don't run my life through God or religion.
If you do in fact believe, why don't you run your life "through God?"
I don't think Jesus or God wants us to run our lives through them. I think they gave us individual souls and the ability to think and question and form opinions of our own for a reason. So we can be independent individuals. You can be an independent individual who thinks on your own and forms opinions while still following the message Jesus and God gave us. IMO.
Posts: 1042 | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
To the original question: the LDS concept of Salvation.
First off, in the LDS perspective, everyone is saved from death already. That's not even an issue. Due to the fact that you are here on this Earth, you chose to not follow Satan and his followers, but to rather come here to Earth to be tested for your faith. I suppose that if you're going to understand Salvation, you'll have to understand the LDS concept of the Plan of Salvation.
The Plan of Salvation is composed of several different steps, ranging from the pre-existence to the Three Degrees of Glory.
The pre-existence is that point of existence where all beings were the spirit children of our Heavenly Parents--Heavenly Father being the foremost Parent. In a grand council, he laid before us the Plan of Salvation, indicating to us that we were only in the first stage. The entire Plan was focused on the idea of our following in our Father's footsteps to the process of deification (that is also an entirely different subject of the LDS faith).
In order to follow in His path, we had to obtain bodies, which we of course did not possess at the time. We had to master our bodies and our reactions to them. In short, we were sent to Earth to gain these bodies and prove ourselves worthy of them, in spite of all temptation.
The terrible War in Heaven was battled over the concept of how to live out our Earthly experience. Heavenly Father decided to grant us the gift of Agency in our experience here on Earth, despite all of its vices. We would be free to choose our path in life; God would not choose it for us.
One of the foremost of our brethren (for we were all children of Heavenly Father) suggested a different path. Instead of giving us our free will, he would ensure that no one strayed from the path--by removing the freedom to choose from our lives. Such a plan would ensure that everyone would pass through Earth untainted. This spirit was known then as Lucifer, Son of the Morning.
In reality, Lucifer planned to Lord over all of us, placing himself above the Father in glory. He would take all of the glory for himself, rather than use it to empower his brethren and sisters. The plan that he presented was a false plan, and it was the debate between the two plans that formed the core of the War in Heaven.
Those who chose to follow Lucifer were cast out of Heaven into outer darkness, removed from Heaven. They have no opportunity for repentence or progression; they are the damned. Those who chose to follow Heavenly Father were chosen to go to Earth to prove themselves. As such, they would be saved from death in the end.
-------
I need to go now. I'll be back later to finish up this explanation.
Posts: 292 | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well, as long as you freely choose to follow their program for your life rather than whatever other plans you have to choose from. I don't know what's up with the "stated" opinions business.
As far as I know, neither God nor Jesus are into "stating" opinions.
Posts: 763 | Registered: Aug 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Here's a talk by Dallin Oaks, a church leader, that answers this question, for the benifit of both Mormons and non-mormons reading and posting in this thread.
Posts: 1894 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by stihl1: I just often feel that when I'm asked the 'saved' question, that I'm missing out somehow on what they are talking about. I was raised to believe in Jesus and what He did. I often wonder if maybe I'm missing out on that, is there something else there I'm supposed to know about or understand?
I think the big issue there is whether or not you actually believe it's true or it's just sort of your default mindset because you were raised in that faith. I don't know if that makes any sense.
quote:That's where the "while still following the message of Jesus and God gave us" part comes in.
To be honest, then, I don't see the distinction between this and letting God run your life. I'll be briefly sarcastic to demonstrate the point; please forgive me. Is the big difference between the two philosophies that God doesn't always make His orange juice preferences clear, and thus the latter believes it's not necessary to check with Him before you buy? What major, life-altering moral decisions are not covered by the message of Jesus?
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't know stihl's distinction, but I see one. Between "I will do what I want within God's established limits" and "I will conform myself to God so much that what I want is whatever He wants." One gives God part of life, the other gives Him all.
Doesn't help much with the OJ decision, though!
Posts: 1877 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:I will conform myself to God so much that what I want is whatever He wants.
Wouldn't most religious people agree that this is in fact the ideal? That in a situation in which what God wants is known, that wanting what God wants -- or at least conforming to what God wants -- is the best of the available options? I know that many people believe it's not possible or realistic to necessarily live your life this way in all ways, but wouldn't they believe that it'd be, by definition, "better" to do so?
The flipside: in which situations is it better to want and do things that God does not want you to want or do?
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm not sure they would (agree that this is the way to do it). You did say "religious people," not "Christian." It's pretty clear in Christianity, but I don't think it is in some other religions. And Christians don't always pursue it either -- although we'll probably agree that it's ideal, and thank you for the reminder.
Not sure what stihl will say. ?
Posts: 1877 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Eh, once you realize it's the only way to justify any existence, it isn't so bad. What's the matter with having a justification for existing? Okay, you might not want me to have a justification for existing, I can see that. But in a more hypothetical sense, what's wrong with letting people exist even if you think they shouldn't?
Huh, that sorta answers itself, doesn't it?
Okay, why do you feel that those who conform to God's will shouldn't exist? That's really the question I was trying to ask.
Posts: 763 | Registered: Aug 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
"Here's your vehicle of salvation my brothers, --praise the lord-- Go buy a gun. --praise the lord-- Go give your gun to Jesus and say: Jesus, you go kill the disciples of Satan and you kill the nazi's Jesus. --give me a hallelujah-- Have you been healed? Have you been saved? Has it happened to you my brother? Feel the pain of sweet Jesus. --praise the lord-- We gotta kill the noise, we gotta kill the pollution of Satan, my brother. --give me an amen-- I love Jesus. We gotta kill the pollution. Pollution!"
Posts: 993 | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
I don't think that God wants you to become a different person. I think that God wants you (all of us) to become who we are. To be more ourselves.
Think of it like a beautiful stained glass window that, over time, has become dull from the accumulation of dirt and time. Cleaning that window doesn't make it a different window; it allows what it is to come forth. And, by its beauty, it also allows more light to shine through.
So what parts of ourselves do we ask God to help us "clean"? Is an addiction, for example, an integral part of who someone is or is it something that is keeping that person from being fully himself?
God doesn't want zombies or clones. We are created with intelligence and personality and unique gifts for a reason. Why would blunting any of that be God's plan?
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Christ says, ‘Give me All. I don’t want so much of your time and so much of your money and so much of your work: I want You. I have not come to torment your natural self, but to kill it. No half-measures are any good. I don’t want to cut off a branch here and a branch there, I want to have the whole tree down. … Hand over the whole natural self, all the desires which you think innocent as well as the ones you think wicked—the whole outfit. I will give you a new self instead. In fact, I will give you Myself: my own will shall become yours.’
-Mere Christianity, New York: Collier Books, 1960, p. 167.
I believe there is room for individuality in eternity. I like what Kim said about God giving us unique personalities and gifts (and talents) for a reason. However, I also believe that Christ wants us to sacrifice a lot of what we typically think of as "our selfs."
Posts: 2926 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by pH: Unfortunately, the whole conforming to God thing is often used to justify a miserable existence. That makes me really sad.
pH, can you explain what you mean by that? Most people I know who are honestly trying to conform their lives to God are quite happy with their decision to do so.
Or are you talking about hypocrisy, when people say that they're doing things God's way and everyone else should too, but they are really not living what they claim to believe?
Posts: 3149 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by pH: Unfortunately, the whole conforming to God thing is often used to justify a miserable existence. That makes me really sad.
-pH
I kind of agree. It seems to me that a lot of people who do that have a pretty miserable life to begin with, and aren't really good with living their life on their own. Which is sad, but in the end if it makes things better for them, then it's good. I think.
Thing is, I like who I am. I'm not a great person, I'm not the worst person. But I like being an individual and becoming a Christian zombie doesn't appeal to me. I want to think for myself, form my own opinions. I don't want to be someone who judges people or dislikes gay people because that's what my religion says. I don't want my decisions made for me and not be able to think for myself. I don't need a God makeover. I want to dialogue and discuss with God, not be a puppet.
Posts: 1042 | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by pH: Unfortunately, the whole conforming to God thing is often used to justify a miserable existence. That makes me really sad.
pH, can you explain what you mean by that? Most people I know who are honestly trying to conform their lives to God are quite happy with their decision to do so.
Or are you talking about hypocrisy, when people say that they're doing things God's way and everyone else should too, but they are really not living what they claim to believe?
I'm not talking about hypocrisy. I'm talking about people making choices that cause them to be miserable, thinking that this is a worthy sacrifice that God would want. There are the wives who stay married to abusive husbands because they feel it's their duty. There are people who love their perfectly legitimate, moral careers, who give up those lives because they think that's what God wants...even if it's not what THEY want. Of course, I also think that what humans want and what God wants probably coincide more than we give ourselves credit for.
There's way more to this, but it will probably end up as a rant.
quote:Originally posted by pH: Unfortunately, the whole conforming to God thing is often used to justify a miserable existence. That makes me really sad.
-pH
I kind of agree. It seems to me that a lot of people who do that have a pretty miserable life to begin with, and aren't really good with living their life on their own. Which is sad, but in the end if it makes things better for them, then it's good. I think.
Thing is, I like who I am. I'm not a great person, I'm not the worst person. But I like being an individual and becoming a Christian zombie doesn't appeal to me. I want to think for myself, form my own opinions. I don't want to be someone who judges people or dislikes gay people because that's what my religion says. I don't want my decisions made for me and not be able to think for myself. I don't need a God makeover. I want to dialogue and discuss with God, not be a puppet.
I don't think Christianity should be about mindless zombie-ness. And I don't think, at its core, that it's about that at all. Being a Christian doesn't mean becoming a puppet.
quote:Originally posted by pH: Unfortunately, the whole conforming to God thing is often used to justify a miserable existence. That makes me really sad.
-pH
I kind of agree. It seems to me that a lot of people who do that have a pretty miserable life to begin with, and aren't really good with living their life on their own. Which is sad, but in the end if it makes things better for them, then it's good. I think.
Thing is, I like who I am. I'm not a great person, I'm not the worst person. But I like being an individual and becoming a Christian zombie doesn't appeal to me. I want to think for myself, form my own opinions. I don't want to be someone who judges people or dislikes gay people because that's what my religion says. I don't want my decisions made for me and not be able to think for myself. I don't need a God makeover. I want to dialogue and discuss with God, not be a puppet.
I'm sorry that you have the idea that Christianity has to be like that. It really doesn't. Of course you are supposed to form your own opinions. I believe that you're supposed to form your own opinions. (An example: I certainly don't feel that Christianity requires us to judge or dislike anyone. Quite the contrary.) Did you read what I said regarding "being madeover"?
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by pH: Unfortunately, the whole conforming to God thing is often used to justify a miserable existence. That makes me really sad.
-pH
I kind of agree. It seems to me that a lot of people who do that have a pretty miserable life to begin with, and aren't really good with living their life on their own. Which is sad, but in the end if it makes things better for them, then it's good. I think.
Thing is, I like who I am. I'm not a great person, I'm not the worst person. But I like being an individual and becoming a Christian zombie doesn't appeal to me. I want to think for myself, form my own opinions. I don't want to be someone who judges people or dislikes gay people because that's what my religion says. I don't want my decisions made for me and not be able to think for myself. I don't need a God makeover. I want to dialogue and discuss with God, not be a puppet.
I'm sorry that you have the idea that Christianity has to be like that. It really doesn't. Of course you are supposed to form your own opinions. I believe that you're supposed to form your own opinions. (An example: I certainly don't feel that Christianity requires us to judge or dislike anyone. Quite the contrary.) Did you read what I said regarding "being madeover"?
Yes, I did read that and I agree. I don't believe that Christianity has to be like that, but that's the message I get from so many so-called evangelicals and people who claim to be 'saved'. It's very frustrating.
And frankly, I've come to the opinion that evangelicalism and being 'saved' isn't for me. I think that it is for some people, certain people. I think that brand of christianity genuinely helps people and does some good. I think some people NEED that from God, need to be taken over and made into a zombie. But frankly, it's not for me. And I don't believe that just because I disagree with that, I am wrong or can't find a religion. Despite what I am being told from certain evangelicals.
There's a reason why there are so many religions, so many brands of Christianity. We're all looking for something different from God, and we all tailor our beliefs based on that. My problem is I'm not sure what I'm looking for, only that I'm looking for it.
Sorry to dredge this old thread up, but reading the Jesus Camp stuff made me think of this.
Frankly, evangelicals scare me. Any religion or belief that requires you to give up so much of yourself to conform is dangerous. And reminds me of a cult.
Posts: 1042 | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
It's interesting hearing about this evangelical message through your experiences, as opposed to mine. It helps to clarify, and I firmly agree with your ideas of "conversing with God" etc.
Great thread. Hi Tante! Posts: 1236 | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
We also talk of "coming unto Christ", which is sometimes similar and sometimes the same in meaning (depending on who's saying it and in what context.)
![[Wave]](graemlins/wave.gif)
