posted
Check it here. I never ever thought that marijuana was planted in such a large scale in the U.S. Always thought that most of it came from South America (not that it isn't the truth). Anyway, I find it mindblowing. How does people hide such plantations?
posted
So by supporting that industry, you are really supporting small, local, family farms that manage to stay profitable without government subsidies?
quote:Originally posted by Eduardo_Sauron: Check it here. I never ever thought that marijuana is planted in such a large scale in the U.S.
I remember reports about it being California's biggest cash crop back 20 years or more ago.
quote:Originally posted by Eduardo_Sauron: Always thought that most of it came from South America (not that it isn't the trugh). Anyway, I find it mindblowing.
Heh. No pun intended.
quote:Originally posted by Eduardo_Sauron: How does people hide such plantations?
<shrug> I'm guessing that a lot of people, who realize that hemp being illegal is one of the stupidest things we've ever done in this country, are basically complicit in saying nothing about what they know. I certainly wouldn't tell anyone if I knew something about it.
Also, it's probably the hardiest crop known to man. It's highly climate independent, and will grow well in every one of the fifty states, which isn't the case with other crops.
You realize that Congress was actually tricked into making it illegal, right? No one would have voted to make hemp illegal, so the folks who wanted to ban it started calling it marijuana, a term that most people were unfamiliar with.
Hempseed oil is probably the healthiest oil around, and clothes made out of hemp last longer than other fibers. Paper made from hemp doesn't get yellow with age the way wood pulp paper does, and using it would do a lot to help with the problem of deforestation and the pollution that's a result of processing wood pulp paper.
And you can make plastics out of it. Instead of wasting what petroleum we have left.
posted
I remember reading a few years back that it's a billion dollar industry in Kentucky, and basically entire counties are aware of and okay with it.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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People often grow pot in the midwest within corn crops as the plants look similar early on from above. The marijuana matures faster then the corn and so it can be harvested quite a bit earlier then the corn.
Often times people will actually plant the stuff within the corn field of a farmer and the farmer is completely unaware. If you have ever been to the midwest and seen the size of some of those fields it is hardly surprising.
With alittle know how its possible to grow some in your own basement and enhance your income by selling it, most people are not stupid enough to use garages anymore.
Then again, in Utah it seems Meth labs are the latest thing.
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Okay, I know why they made hemp illegal (tobacco and alcohol industries lied to congress a long time ago) but why is it still illegal? I don't understand.
Heck, we repealed proabition and less of the country was behind it than is now behind the legalization of hemp.
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It speaks well of the rising potency of the American crop that we do not need to import so much any more, however if it were legal the value of the crop would fall back into line with tobacco or any other legal drug crop so the number is more of an indication the skew created in making it illegal, if it were purchased by the bale it would soon be a very different story.
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quote:Originally posted by Lisa: The difference is, Meth is dangerous, both to make and to use. Pot is neither.
Oh agreed on both counts. I was merely noting that in Utah meth is king whereas in the midwest its pot.
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quote:Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_: Okay, I know why they made hemp illegal (tobacco and alcohol industries lied to congress a long time ago) but why is it still illegal? I don't understand.
I once heard a talk from a DEA guy (I think it was), and he said something I'd never heard before, and have never heard since. But I wonder if there isn't a grain of truth in it.
He said that in a lot of other countries, pot is considered a Really Bad Thing. Countries that have no problem with opium. He said that if we were to legalize pot, they'd absolutely flood us with heroin.
The thing is, I'm not sure how they could do that without making the price plummet. But you're right -- there has to be some reason. Hemp is everything that soy was, and more, and without the downsides of soy. And there's already a private testing company set up that will certify hemp products as THC-free, or at least THC-very-low. So it's not as if the drug worry is all that serious or realistic.
But Schwartzenegger just vetoed a bill in California that was passed by both houses, which would have made it much easier to grow hemp for industrial purposes. It just seems like such a stupid thing for him to have done.
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posted
Let me add that according to my sources, a book called Daily Life in the US during the 20s+30s (something like that) prohibition *did* reduce alcohol use by 60%!
(I just reminded myself of a certain character from the Magic School Bus book series )
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quote:Originally posted by Phanto: Let me add that according to my sources, a book called Daily Life in the US during the 20s+30s (something like that) prohibition *did* reduce alcohol use by 60%!
(I just reminded myself of a certain character from the Magic School Bus book series )
You reminded me of her as well.
But just because it reduced alcohol use doesn't mean it was a good thing. It wasn't repealed because so many people were violating it; it was repealed and so many people were violating it because it was a dumb law.
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quote:Originally posted by Phanto: Let me add that according to my sources, a book called Daily Life in the US during the 20s+30s (something like that) prohibition *did* reduce alcohol use by 60%!
(I just reminded myself of a certain character from the Magic School Bus book series )
When you're banning something that's used by so many people, you'd really better reduce consumption by over 60%. If you don't, you've done nothing more than make criminals out of a bunch of people.
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Isn't that exactly what happened with Marijuana?
I wonder by how much Marijuana consumption was reduced when it was made illegal. I'd be intersted to know the stats over the decades too, i.e.- what the percentage reduction was back then, and what percentage of the population uses today.
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Hempseed oil is probably the healthiest oil around, and clothes made out of hemp last longer than other fibers. Paper made from hemp doesn't get yellow with age the way wood pulp paper does, and using it would do a lot to help with the problem of deforestation and the pollution that's a result of processing wood pulp paper.
And you can make plastics out of it. Instead of wasting what petroleum we have left.
I agree with you, but don't spout the propaganda of the pro-hemp if it isn't really accurate. The logging industry is not really responsible for significant deforestation- in fact the logging industry is what maintains many national and state parks and keeps them from the hands of developers and "environmentalists" who want to build cabins in the woods. I agree that the logging industry is artificially buoyed by anti-hemp legislation, but to go so far as to say that hemp would stop deforestation is stretching your powers of foresight a little. As long as clear-cutting is stopped, the logging industry does more to keep the forests safe than they get credit for.
Also hemp based fibres make very uncomfortable clothing, imho.
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quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: I agree that the logging industry is artificially buoyed by anti-hemp legislation, but to go so far as to say that hemp would stop deforestation is stretching your powers of foresight a little.
I don't think I actually went so far as to say that it'd stop deforestation, did I? If I did, I didn't mean to. But the pollution required in the processing of wood pulp paper is a huge problem, and isn't required in the processing of hemp paper.
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: Also hemp based fibres make very uncomfortable clothing, imho.
Sure, as a lining. But for the outer part of clothing, they're incredibly durable.
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"Industrial hemp is an incredible resource. Hemp is harvested for its fibers for hemp clothing and seeds for hemp oil. With a relatively short growth cycle of 100-120 days, it is an efficient and economical crop for farmers to grow, however, industrial hemp cannot be commercially grown in the United States because it is erroneously confounded with marijuana. In fact, industrial hemp and marijuana are different breeds of Cannabis sativa. Smoking large amounts of hemp flowers can produce a headache but not a high! " http://www.hemp.com/Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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This site is a bit more objective. It seems that it is the same plant, b ut when grown closer together, produces less leaves(hemp), and when grown for oil or recreational use, it is grown farther apart. http://www.downbound.com/Hemp_s/39.htm
The thing to know is, marijuana(cannabis) is a weed. It is just born to grow, and to spread itself far and wide.
Frankly, I feel it is a fairly benign drug, but still a drug, and still illegal. No matter what you feel about what its status should be, the fact remains that it is illegal, and will get you in bog trouble.
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Actually though I usually sound off pro-marijuana and pro-hemp in general, you have to see past the propaganda on both sides of the issue and realize that marijuana can be a dangerous drug, particularly for people with depression or dependency issues.
I've had all kinds of experience with it, from friends who are perfectly fine smoking once in a while, who realize the danger and who don't kid themselves about when it is appropriate to use and when not, to friends who have ended up smoking it all the time (as in all day every day) and dealing it so they can afford the habit. It seems to me to be if not as dangerous as alcohol (you don't hear about college freshmen smoking themselves to death!) marijuana is at least differently dangerous and not to be underestimated in its power over some people.
That's what makes the issue so tough- marijuana continues to be grown and used by those who want it, but the culture surrounding is continually fueled by lies and wishful thinking about its effects on the mind, both about its positive qualities and its negative ones. On one hand it isn't going to make you homeless if you are a stable intelligent person who uses it in moderation, but on the other hand it just might if your the kind of person who should best not start fiddling with their brain chemistry.
I'll go ahead and admit I've smoked pot, more in my later high school and early college years, and my feelings have always been mixed. I sometimes liked it, but didn't like the idea of some of my friends doing it, or of encouraging anyone else to do it, which is how many potheads justify themselves doing it. I didn't like being a part of a subculture I didn't find tasteful (all the aliens and glow-in-the-dark bongs and dirty t-shirts etc), and finally I just didn't like doing it when I could be doing fulfilling things instead, even if it was only reading or schoolwork.
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quote:Originally posted by Elizabeth: Frankly, I feel it is a fairly benign drug, but still a drug, and still illegal. No matter what you feel about what its status should be, the fact remains that it is illegal, and will get you in big trouble.
If you're a college student, you can lose your eligibility for federal student aid, but in many places it's been practically decriminalized. Here in Oregon, for example, possession of small amounts will merely get you a fine at the most.
Marijuana plantations that are hidden away on public lands do some significant damage to the environment and society, with fertilizer seeping into streams and the occasional armed guard. Government agencies spend tons of money each year trying to search out and eradicate these plantations. (Not to mention the millions spent on investigating and arresting people for simple possession of marijuana--786,545 arrests for marijuana in 2005, about 694,000 for possession. For reference, the total number of violent crime arrests that year was 603,503: figures from csdp.org/)
Posts: 1592 | Registered: Jan 2001
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Sure, the crop won't be as valuable if it's legal, but I foresee that the taxes from it would be substantial and the government would be saving a lot of money by not putting users in jail. I think the tobacco companies would start making marijuana cigarettes--they already have all of the right equipment! I think most people wouldn't bother to grow it themselves if they can buy it already rolled.
I'd certainly be okay with regulation. Teenagers don't need to be smoking it--as if they need anything else to decrease their motivation. But adults should be able to make the decision for themselves (perhaps even with the advice of a doctor), and it doesn't *always* decrease motivation. For some people, it increases their motivation and optimism, and without it they're stuck in a deep and angry depression.
But I'm not so sure that it will ever be made legal. There are just too many people who believe the lies the federal government has fed them about it. And there are too many people who are not content simply to not use it themselves, they want to make sure nobody else does either--even if it helps that person in major ways.
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I could see it being legalized by the time my generation (mid-20s) is in power in the federal government.
My generation seems to be uniquely distrusting of the status quo (in fact, if I could assign us a motto, it'd be "Prove it"), and even my most conservative friends (in a pretty conservative state, at that) recognize that marijuana is just not as dangerous as all other popular recreational drugs (cocaine, heroin, opium, and meth).
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If marijuana is legalized then in a few years people will be suing Big Marijuana just like Big Tobacco for all the harm it causes them and we will be flooded with stories how Big Marijuana hid the truth from everyone.
Posts: 1918 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: I could see it being legalized by the time my generation (mid-20s) is in power in the federal government.
My generation seems to be uniquely distrusting of the status quo (in fact, if I could assign us a motto, it'd be "Prove it"), and even my most conservative friends (in a pretty conservative state, at that) recognize that marijuana is just not as dangerous as all other popular recreational drugs (cocaine, heroin, opium, and meth).
Is anyone else over the age of 30 laughing their rear ends off at this?
No offense, JT, but when your generation gets to be in their 30s and 40s (to say nothing of their 50s), they'll be just as jaded and conservative as the current crop. Maybe more.
The hippies were the generation before me, and they went corporate, too. Enjoy being young and idealistic. Very few of us stay that way.
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quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: I could see it being legalized by the time my generation (mid-20s) is in power in the federal government.
My generation seems to be uniquely distrusting of the status quo (in fact, if I could assign us a motto, it'd be "Prove it"), and even my most conservative friends (in a pretty conservative state, at that) recognize that marijuana is just not as dangerous as all other popular recreational drugs (cocaine, heroin, opium, and meth).
Is anyone else over the age of 30 laughing their rear ends off at this?
Well, it was more of a polite snicker. But yeah, every generation claims this.
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quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: I'm well aware of what happened with previous generations, and I stand by my previous post.
That's interesting, JT. I'm skeptical of the larger claim (though I wouldn't be surprised to see pot legalized in the next 20 years or so), but not so skeptical as to dismiss the assertion out of hand. What would you say that the difference is between people in their mid-20s now and, say, the hippies of the late 60s that will cause your generation not to accept the status quo as they get older?
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It's not consumerism (edit: or not only consumerism, anyway). It's just that as you get older, you learn to choose the causes you're willing to spend your energy on. Also, with greater experience often comes a greater understanding of the other side of various questions.
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It seems rather obvoious but I will point it out anyway. When we are talking about 'cash crops' we are really talking about 'cash'. Please note that corn, soybean, wheat, etc... do not net the farmer $500 per pound the way marajuana is likely to do.
There was a time when Pot was about $150 per Kilo for good stuff. But the US governement kill Mexican production, and the price went to $300 per Kilo for Columbian. Now Columbian has pretty much been cut off and the supply comes from more diverse and dangerous sources, consequently the more than likely $500 per pound.
Corn is like $3 per bushel, Pot is $500 per pound, at that rate it doesn't take many pounds to add up to huge amounts of money. So, it is not the size of the crop that makes in expensive, it is the value of the crop.
Also note that as Pot has gotten harder and harder to come by, and has gotten more and more expensive, cheaper but far more dangerous drugs have crept in to take it's place; drugs like Crack and Meth.
Personally, I suspect if Pot was reasonably available and reasonably priced, then Crack and Meth would quickly fade away.
I would never go so far as to say Pot was good for you. Certainly anything foreign that gets in your lungs is going to produce long term damage. Pot is also not great for maintaining plentiful and healthy brain cells. It is also not condusive to creating highly motivated people.
Yet of all the drugs out there, when used in moderation, I think it is one of the least dangerous and that includes alcohol.
As I side note; I will point out the Pot was never illegal until they decided to make alcohol legal again after Prohibition. The alcohol companies didn't want the competition from a drug they couldn't control and distribute, so part of the deal of making alcohol legal again included the rider that Pot would be illegal.
quote:That's interesting, JT. I'm skeptical of the larger claim (though I wouldn't be surprised to see pot legalized in the next 20 years or so), but not so skeptical as to dismiss the assertion out of hand. What would you say that the difference is between people in their mid-20s now and, say, the hippies of the late 60s that will cause your generation not to accept the status quo as they get older?
It's just a gut feeling on my part (my gut being mostly made up of youthful idealism, of course ), but if I had to articulate it I'd say that the difference between my generation the hippies of the 60-70s is that they traded their idealism for realism when they realized being poor was only a fun way to go through your youth. No one wants to raise a family in a cardboard box just to stick it to the Man and make a statement against rampant consumerism.
I really don't see that level of glassy-eyed idealism in my generation (of course, I recognize that I could be too close to see it, but I'm usually pretty good at seeing the big picture) -- I think the mean falls pretty solidly in the 'realist' camp, maybe even leaning towards 'pessimist'. Which is why I used the example of conservatives; I'm talking young WASPy mo-fo's. It's no surprise that potheads want to see it legalized, but when I can get the majority of the blue-blazer club to admit it wouldn't be a bad thing if pot got legalized I think the truth is starting to be pretty well known.
Not to mention my generation doesn't particularly have to sell out as we get older in order to feed and clothe ourselves; we're already big time capitalists.
Of course, I was mostly joking with my response to Lisa -- I definitely wouldn't be surprised to see my generation get more conservative as we age.
It's my guess, though, that part of the move towards 'more conservative' will be accomplished by having the middle ground shift a little to the left, leaving a chunk of people on the opposite side of the fence without them having to move.
------
If you're skeptical of the larger claim, Noemon, what do you think will facilitate the change?
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: I have become more idealistic and liberal as I have gotten older.
I have to agree. I am still pretty idealistic, but definitely a tempered idealism.
I think that my generation(I am 43) has made some changes which are based on who we "were," and I think the hippie generation, though many went corporate, did as well.
What many younger people don;t know about hippies is that a good number of them came from corporate America. It is a lot easier to follow The Dead around when you have a trust fund, believe me.
So, I tend to shudder when I hear youthful idealism scoffed at, with a "wait til you're my age" approach. I think that is sad and condescending.
And for all the talk of technology making people stupid, I think the current "younger generation" is one of the kindest large groups of people we have seen in a while. I think that, in general, they listen to what older people tell them, and think about it. Again, major generalizing here on all sides, but there you have it.
And yes, Lisa, I know I can edit.
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