I've heard alot of people making absolute claims about people of many different nations and ideologies in the past few days. I thought I would post this story here, because it really challenges the mainstream dogma. This is the story of Mubin Shaikh, the muslim canadian who had a large part in bringing down the "homegrown terror ring" here in Toronto a few weeks ago. He has many values that could be considered stereotypically muslim; he was a supporter of instituting sharia law in Ontario, and has said he supports the jihads in Afghanistan and Iraq. However, he has also stated that he believes in canadian values and protecting canadian lives (why he joined the canadian spy agency in the first place). What do you guys have to say about him?
(I would just like to add something before you all attack him for supporting "Jihad". Littrally, "jihad" means struggle, not the widely bracketed holy war definition commonly used in media reports. The struggle usually encompasses an internal one not to sin / stay moral, etc. and it also can mean struggle as in resisting oppression. It isn't necessarily violent - writing a letter to the Prime Minister or a newspaper can be characterized as 'jihad'. Sooo, when people describe nuts such as Bin Laden as 'jihadists' and/or 'Islamists', they are being grossly inaccurate and somewhat ignorant.)
Posts: 441 | Registered: Jun 2005
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So which jihad is he supporting in Iraq? The terrorist insurgency or the institution of democracy?
All in all though, I was very impressed. It definately counters a lot of the garbage that BC was spewing.
Posts: 1412 | Registered: Oct 2005
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What is the basis for your conclusion that his support of the "Jihad" in Afghanistan and Iraq is of the type? He doesn't elaborate on that issue in the article.
It sounds like he may have coorperated for the money, but I'll withhold judgment on that.
Posts: 407 | Registered: Mar 2006
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Beats me. The point of this article was less the fact that he doesn't have typical wertern views, but more the fact that even with the views he has, he values human life and western values as much as his own. He is quite the counter-example of the muslim some of you portray.
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BTW, that may be literally true about the word jihad (just as in English 'battle' can have non-war related meaning). However, if that is the case then the terrorist factions have completely hijacked the word-since that is what they use to describe their acts of terrorism.
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quote:Originally posted by Mig: What is the basis for your conclusion that his support of the "Jihad" in Afghanistan and Iraq is of the type? He doesn't elaborate on that issue in the article.
It sounds like he may have coorperated for the money, but I'll withhold judgment on that.
I did not make that conclusion. All I was saying is that we cannot be sure which kind of jihad he means (though since he is a muslim scholar, he probably means the actual one, which is what I described), so it is best to not try to attack him for supporting "jihad" in afganistan as if that implies that he supports suicide bombing, which I'm almost sure he doesn't support.
I doubt he did it solely for the money, as there was considerable risk involved on his part. Furthermore, he had no obligation to come out publicly and say he did all this, he was given the option of remaining anonymous, but chose to come out to show that not all muslims hate the west, and a good deal of them are willing to fight for both muslim rights and (in this case) canadian rights. Plus all spies are paid, does that mean that their intentions can be undermined?
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quote:Originally posted by BaoQingTian: BTW, that may be literally true about the word jihad (just as in English 'battle' can have non-war related meaning). However, if that is the case then the terrorist factions have completely hijacked the word-since that is what they use to describe their acts of terrorism.
yes this is true, they have corrupted the true meaning of the word, and turned it into a pejorative concept. though I think that the western media is also somewhat responsible for this.
The difference between jihad and battle is that when people use battle in a non-violent context, no one automatically assumes they mean it in a violent one (ie if I was talking about the battle against unequal education, no one would assume off the bat that I meant violent battle, but if I said the jihad against unequal education in the middle east, many people would assume violence automatically).
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The campaign for sharia law was never meant to completely usurp the western laws in canada. Its intention was to provide a faith-based alternative for a certain population of Ontario when conventional law couldn't resolve an issue to everyone's content. While I am against it, I do not feel that wanting to have different alternatives available to resolve domestic and faith-based conflicts is necessarilly against western values.
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Angiomorphism, Although his support of sharia law wasn't meant to apply to everyone in Canada, supporting Sharia law is consistent with western values. That he uses western values to achieve his end and that he appears to respect those values speak well of him. Bu I think you said it best when you say that he doesn't have typical western values.
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Yes, but I hesitate to blame the media as well. They simply report what the terrorists themselves-and even other non-terrorist Muslims as well-have chose to call their actions.
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"Although his support of sharia law wasn't meant to apply to everyone in Canada, supporting Sharia law is consistent with western values."
you mean "inconsistent" I assume, though I like your post this way better.
And my point is that though he doesn't have typical western values, he wants to be integrated into canadian society (there is one point in the article where he talks about how he tries to balance his muslim beliefs and canadian secular beliefs), and is not what some people have claimed all muslims or arabs are, nor does he hold beliefs that some people claim all muslims or arabs hold.
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quote:Originally posted by BaoQingTian: Yes, but I hesitate to blame the media as well. They simply report what the terrorists themselves-and even other non-terrorist Muslims as well-have chose to call their actions.
To be honest with you, I'm not sure where the current use of the term jihad first originated. I'm sure there is an article out there somewhere investigating the issue, but I really don't know enough about it to comment any more. I would just be surprised if western media wasn't somewhat involved (like they were with "insurgency" and "collateral dammage")
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Depends on what exactly he means by Sharia Law. If he referring to it as a code of behaviour, rather than a code of enforcement, it could be as consistant with western values as many religious doctirnes.
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