posted
Will it ever go away? The little voice inside my head that makes note of a person's race. The one that notices how I do treat all folks the same, and yet notices how I take extra care to do so?
I was raised in a racist household. My father and his side of the family have names and jokes and stereotypes for each group, but most especially black people. Thank God for my mother, who abhorred the racism, though really never tried to do anything about it. I was completely immersed, from an early age. I remember being under 10 years old and using the word 'n****r' constantly. I didn't question it – I didn't know that I was supposed to. This continued until I was in my mid teens, when I had a life changing experience – I started claiming my faith for my own. I came to understand that in the Kingdom of God, it doesn't matter who you are in the physical. I couldn't fit racism into my understanding of Christianity. I was heartbroken for all of those years that I had despised people who were different. I repented, in the true meaning of the word. I rejected that path I had walked for so long, and started in a new direction. I've been walking this path for about 10 years now, and it's so refreshing.
The problem is, those ingrained ideas just don't go away. They flooded me from such an early age that I don't know if it's possible for me to be completely colorblind. I can't control those unconscious thoughts and assumptions, just my actions. I don't have to work so hard anymore to act in a colorblind manner – the years and maturity have made it easier.
So why do I feel like such a racist? Is it this guilt I carry around for the half of my life I lived in darkness? Is it for the little annoying voice that points out people's race? Will I ever be free of the past, or do I just treat people the same externally while ignoring the faded tattoo of racism in my mind?
I seek the renewing of my mind that the Bible promises. I've caught myself wishing that it was instant, but it's never that easy.
posted
Dont' feel too bad. At least you think consiously about it, unlike other people who just go along with it and never question it. Questioning that voice is a good thing, it says you are on the right path. My grandmother disliked Jamaicans, Haitans, Catholics, quite a few people. Took me a while to realize I didn't have to pick up her attitudes and could think for myself.
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Even if it never goes away for you, you can restrain your actions so that you don't pass racism on to your children. I think the world will slowly move away from racism because wise parents will slowly move away from their parents' hate, such that it will slowly stop occurring to their children and children's children that there's any reason for the hate to exist.
At least, that's my optimistic, starry-eyed prediction for the future of race relations. I'm sure some parents will continue to pass racism on to their children from generation to generation, so hate will probably continue to exist. But if the larger society teaches and enforces that it's not okay to harbor such feelings, maybe most of us will feel guilty enough to do as you are trying to do.
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The things you learn as a child are really hard to erase.
For example, my boyfriend is black.
But if I walking by myself down a street and there's two black men walking the same sidewalk from the other direction, I get really anxious. And when I feel that way, I know that the indicator is skin color and nothing else.
My family isn't particularly racist (my mom is alittle but she had bad experiences when she was younger, but she knows its wrong and never tried to instill racist feelings in my brother and me.) I blame alot of watching too much news.
Its something you just have to first accept, and then deal with one day at a time. That you recognize those feelings at all is a sign that you'll be alright.
And on a random note, I've given up on the word "color-blind." You can't ignore the color of a person's skin and we shouldn't try to because that implies that color itself is wrong. I see rather to see skin color like a see hair color or eye color...as a feature which causes no presumptions or negative stereotyping.
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I think the fact that you recognize these feelings is the first step towards being able to put them behind you. I agree with Shanna. I think you can't become color-blind, you just learn not to judge a person by their color.
I hate to admit it, but I sometimes get nervous when I'm walking and I pass a black man. It's not fair, but it happens. I recognize it, and try to push past that initial reaction. Sometimes it's just hard to get over the stereotypes.
But, even so, I admire you for admitting it and attempting to work through it.
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posted
Just out of curiosity, how are these men dressed? Are they in business suits, or fairly clean cut, or are they dressed like gangsters commonly dress?
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I'd say anyone not in business or business casual. I'm just jumpy at night. People dressed like "gangstas" or "rappers" or "punks" or "rednecks" or "skinheads" make me more nervous though.
Posts: 1069 | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Swampjedi: Will it ever go away? The little voice inside my head that makes note of a person's race. The one that notices how I do treat all folks the same, and yet notices how I take extra care to do so?
You may never be able to do so yourself. But what you can do is refuse to act on it, to the best of your ability. Be color-blind by policy.
If everyone does this, it'll take a generation for the differences to fade. Of course, not everyone is going to do it, so it's going to take a lot longer than that, but don't beat yourself up about it. I always notice when someone is a redhead. I notice albinos. I notice very tall people and very short people. I notice people who have smoother skin than me or rougher skin than me, or darker or lighter skin than me (though there aren't many of the latter, unless you go back to albinos). I notice people who have noses that are shaped very differently from mine. Pug noses. Big, flattened noses. Hooked noses.
And human beings conceptualize in categories. You can't help it. That's how our brains work. You see that piece of wood with four legs, and you think "table". You notice that it has a telephone and a pad of paper on it, and you change what you think to "desk". It's automatic. You can't help doing it with people as well.
The only solution, I think, is just getting used to the idea that of all the differences that could possibly be significant, skin color is one of the most bizarre. Culture, religion, language... all of these make more sense than skin color, which should be lumped with hair color and eye color and height in terms of their significance.
Don't beat yourself up. Just do your best. It sounds like you already are.
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So perhaps it's not just black people you have a problem with, but people you perceive to be a threat. Since people in business and business casual attire don't make you jumpy, regardless of race, perhaps you are classifying them based on perceived threat level rather than race. This is a perfectly normal psychological reaction (and survival trait).
Sometimes it's easy to become hypersensitive to racial issues. To echo Lisa, stop beating yourself up about it. As long as you are making a conscious effort to stop any prejudices you might have before it turns into discrimination and racism, my hat is off to you. When you teach your children and they don't even have ingrained prejudices, it will be far easier for them than it is for you.
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I wouldn't say that I beat myself up, just that I feel guilt.
I honestly am more nervous around a bunch of "rednecks" than I am "gangstas." Oh, and male only. Groups of women make me nervous for a completely different reason!
I can't imagine life without the shortcuts that categorization provide. Does the fact that we naturally (unconsciously?) categorize people make the idea of a totally 'prejudiceless' society impossible? I think this is the idea I wanted to bring out and discuss.
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MrSquicky could answer this question better than I, but from what I recall from my college psychology classes we form these categories instinctually. It's a survival trait. In a dangerous situation, a snap judgement is needed to save your life. We also can't constantly be re-evaluating everything. We form these categories naturally.
The phenomenon has a lot of treatment in the subject of cognitive psychology. You could try looking there for more info.
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SJ, I think the idea is to behave justly, and not to worry so much about gut reactions. People are always going to make categorizations, but have you ever felt uncomfortable around people with blue eyes? You might notice them as having blue eyes, but it doesn't carry a value judgement with it.
I agree with BQT that this sounds like more of a reaction to cultural/"class" differences than purely a racial one. But then, most cases of "racial awareness" are really mislabeled in the same way. Racism based purely on things like skin color is far, far less common nowadays than most people think, because most cases of it aren't really a matter of skin color at all.
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We can make it go away if one's race no longer means anything, but that means giving away all our racial identities.
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Are you talking about race or culture? It seems like you're intertwining the two. Must they be inseperable?
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posted
Not passing it on to children is a very good thing.
Because of shows like "Dora the Explorer," the Spanish language holds almost a magical, mystical quality for my children. Whenever we encounter someone who is Hispanic in our errands, my children utter with hushed reverence, "They speak Spanish!" I am more than happy to let them feel that way. Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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You should all go and look on the other side of this forum under the blog topic Humans A Failure you will see everything i have to say about race and how it doesnt actually exist enjoy!
Posts: 201 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Even if it never goes away for you, you can restrain your actions so that you don't pass racism on to your children.
Brinestone is wise. I try very hard to do the exact thing she's talking about here. I was raised by a stepfather who was a bigot, plain and simple. My mother wasn't, so at least I didn't get influenced by two parents but it was bad enough.
Racial epithets are not spoken in our home, and my husband and I (he was raised by a very traditional, old-south father who also looked down on people of different races) have to work hard not to pass along what we learned as kids. Our policy is just not to focus on race much at all, to act as if there is no difference, and address the issues and talk about them honestly when they do come up. OUr religious beliefs also teach that there is only one race - the human race - and that we are all related, so we try to instill those values in our kids as well. Love your neighbor as yourself, regardless of the race of that neighbor.
I hope we're successful. I too, sometimes feel shame when I have a reaction to something that I know is coming from my upbringing.
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quote:Are you talking about race or culture? It seems like you're intertwining the two. Must they be inseperable?
I don't believe they need to be inseperable - but I do know more that more than a few black individuals consider being black to be an important part of their identity, and would not want to give that up. I assume the same is true for other minorities. Nevertheless, there is a paradox in wanting to not be judged by one's race while simultaneously wanting one's race to be an important characteristic of oneself. I think we can probably only ever accomplish one or the other.
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Thank you Belle. Your perspective seems a lot like mine.
So far this thread has encouraged me and confirmed my idea that to act as if that annoying voice isn't there is the best way to go, and that not passing that voice on to my children is possible and desirable.
Tresopax has a good point. Lots of people hear "let's all get along" and think "everyone needs to act white" and it puts their hackles up.
I like having different cultural groups. It makes things more interesting. Food especially. Posts: 1069 | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Will it ever go away? The little voice inside my head that makes note of a person's race. The one that notices how I do treat all folks the same, and yet notices how I take extra care to do so?
I'm not sure that we should want, or need, to not notice someone's race. We're different, and that's not a bad thing. There's nothing racist about noticing that someone is black, or white, or asian. No more than it's sexist to notice someone is a woman. I notice people's hairstyle and color, and I notice their skin color (even if they're white I notice if they're especially fair-skinned or not). It's only racist if you treat them differently because of their skin color.
And tolerance isn't achieved just by restraining yourself from using racial slurs (not that anyone has intimated that), because I know several people who never disparage any other races but whose behavior is colored by prejudice. Their actions, and not their words give them away. It's not enough to pay lip service to equality, if you don't walk the line.
I notice skin color, and I don't see that I should stop. I treat everyone with respect, and I try not to assume motives for their behavior based on my own prejudices.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Well, I suppose I should have been more precise.
quote: Will it ever go away? The little voice inside my head that derisively makes note of a person's race. The one that notices how I do treat all folks the same, and yet notices how I take extra care to do so, and laughs because it's thinking of people differently?
quote:Are you talking about race or culture? It seems like you're intertwining the two. Must they be inseperable?
I don't believe they need to be inseperable - but I do know more that more than a few black individuals consider being black to be an important part of their identity, and would not want to give that up. I assume the same is true for other minorities. Nevertheless, there is a paradox in wanting to not be judged by one's race while simultaneously wanting one's race to be an important characteristic of oneself. I think we can probably only ever accomplish one or the other.
Therein lies the rub. I feel free to dislike certain things about cultures. There are elements that I dislike about United States cultures, Latin American cultures, Muslim cultures, Asian cultures, etc. (I'm being very broad here on purpose, I realize that people that are members of these cultures are members of smaller and smaller sub-cultures.)
However, intentionally trying to associate race with culture makes it difficult. It begins to blur the lines between skin color and who I am. You mentioned African-Americans. They have done this. As a result, it is difficult (even for their own leaders) to point out cultural problems and work to solve them-it is seen as a racial attack. This type of practice is counterproductive (or a paradox as you put it).
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My first instinct was to say that I didn't notice it at all. But then I realized that most of the time, I too edge away from groups of black men on the street.
Then I thought about it some more, especially considering culture.
I don't edge away from all black men. I edge away from black men and their friends who are leering at me and who have grills because they seem to be the ones who are most vocal in their, um, "observations" about my body, and they generally do it in a way that makes me uncomfortable.
But I'd like to think that this reaction is more of a response to their dress and demeanor than their actual skin color. I also tend to avoid leering frat boys, for example. So maybe it's more of a subculture thing. I think the problem is that certain subcultures seem to be very dominated by one race, and that makes it hard for people to distinguish between the two.
posted
Palliard wrote this on the Vendetta thread:
quote:first you're led to believe that V has his vendetta against the people that tortured him at the concentration camp. Then you slowly realize that his vendetta wasn't so much against them as it was against the government that allowed there to BE concentration camps.
My view towards white America is similar, as much as we can trace our cultural, political, and intellectual heritage through the revolution, how the hell did it take 170 years for black people in this country to be seen as equal.
Individuals don't bother me. I don't mind the cops or the parents or even the employers. Racists old people don't bother me, even racist young people are out of fashion and are so far removed from directly influencing me that I'm not worried about individuals.
Here is my problem. There is something deeply wrong in our American constitution-- not the document, the zeitgeist-- that allowed for those years of indignity. Who knows, it could be the same thing that can explain the atrocities in our current penal system and whatever is happening in Guantanamo bay. But whatever it is, it'll take a deep look into the character of white America, for that trait to be excised. It may mean rethinking democracy, education, christianity, economics, and politics.
Until a significant group of white people start on the project of figuring out what went wrong, and what part of that political incompetence still lives in our culture, I'm going to keep bristling against white America and white American institutions. It's not an issue of reparations. Money can't solve this problem. It's an issue of American character, and taking a close look at those qualities that buttress our institutions.
_______________
I think this is why black people don't play the cultural assimilation game very well, whereas Asian and Indian and even African immigrants are more eager to adopt the mores of white America.
quote:Until a significant group of white people start on the project of figuring out what went wrong, and what part of that political incompetence stills lives in our culture, I'm going to keep bristling against white America and white American institutions. It's not an issue of reparations. Money can't solve this problem. It's an issue of American character, and and taking a close look at those qualities that buttress our institutions.
I was listening to NPR today about a battle fought against sexual discrimination. I thought how men have been so incredibly *UNAWARE* of the inequality. Why?
Because they are the benefactors of the circumstances. They are the ones in power.
You could take your above paragraph and apply it to sexual inequality. Why did it take so long? Why is it *still* taking so long? What is inherently wrong?
I will tell you. When one group is in power and things are going their way, it is like moving a mountain to try and get them to *understand* what it is like to be the ostracized second-class citizen. It's like caste systems, feudal systems. Slavery was the same. The ones in power, whether majority or no, just don't get it.
Let them eat cake and all that.
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Irami, it seems like your requirements for white America are rather nebulous. How will you be able to tell when they have met your standard? Can they ever?
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It's a nebulous affair. It isn't as if 70 percent of the populus needs to pass a Scantron test on character before I'll believe that theirs is worthwhile. Again, the white problem in America is an issue of character, not race or sex, racism and sexism were just symptoms of a deeper moral malformation.
I can tell you that Bill Bradley has addressed it, and the people who were casual about torturing Greenpeace demonstrators on this thread haven't.
There was an article in the New York Times yesterday concerning this, and how black men, completely unsurprising to me, are moving farther away from the mainstream society.
The rhetoric in the article talks around the central question, which is, why won't black men just go along and play the game like everyone else? Riches and status are available for the black man who assumes white sensibilities, why won't they just do it. It works for other immigrants. The answer, I believe, is something out of Faust.
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I can't say that I blame these black men for moving away from mainstream. Why sell your soul for riches and status? It's a very poor trade. The mainstream is so shallow that I prefer to do my swimming somewhere else.
Posts: 1069 | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:I was listening to NPR today about a battle fought against sexual discrimination. I thought how men have been so incredibly *UNAWARE* of the inequality. Why?
At the same time, I've observed that there are many women and members of minorities who are hyperaware of the problem - to the point where they see it as worse than it actually is, and perceive discrimination where it is not. This is problematic, because even the perception of being disliked and discriminated against can be very harmful. (Consider the young girl who thinks she is overweight and who believes people find her ugly - even if this is not true, the perception that it is true harms her.) I'm uncertain of where the balance lies, but I think current attempts to raise awareness tend not to reach the unaware people while tending to make others overaware - because most of the preaching ends up going to the choir.
I think people mistakenly treat racial and gender discrimination in a fundamentally different way from discrimination against overweight individuals or discrimination against short people or discrimination against people considered less attractive. Racial and gender discrimination are treated as political problems that our society is supposed to one day eliminate, rather than inevitable unfairness rooted in human nature. I think the latter is also more realistic.
Slavery, segregation, political inequality, institutional inequality - these things can be eliminated by changing the way society functions. But the human tendency to judge based on certain characteristics is not going to be eliminated through any political means. You could prevent race from being an issue by teaching people not to notice differences in skin color as much, except for the fact that people do care about their racial identities - and even then that would only mean people are discriminating on the basis of something else instead.
The real solution to discrimination is to teach people to be good judges of character - and to look at people as individuals. The little voice that makes them notice race will not go away, but they can be taught to naturally look beyond what that voice says. That solves the issue not only for racial and gender discrimination, but also for discrimination in general against any group. But this is something that must be done for each new child individually, and it must continually be done for each generation. It's not something we can solve and then be done with, once and for all. It is a permanent dilemma for human beings - the development of a healthy character, including the ability to judge fairly.
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quote:Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong: It's a nebulous affair. It isn't as if 70 percent of the populus needs to pass a Scantron test on character before I'll believe that theirs is worthwhile. Again, the white problem in America is an issue of character,
How is that not calling it a race issue? I mean, you're SAYING "character" but at the same time calling it a "white problem."
Like Dog, I find myself searching for exactly what it is you want. What changes do you think need to be made? What exactly do white people do that's the problem, what would you like them to change? What do you want to see black people achieve (since you've mentioned that attaining what white society defines as success is not good)?
I've read a number of your posts on different threads and you make the same assertions that you did above. Leaving aside the question of how accurate and true they are, I want to know what your solution is.
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Irami, it does seem that you're saying that the problem with whites is that they lack character. That seems to me to be of the same ilk as saying the problem with blacks is that they're shifty, lazy, and oversexed/too agressive.
Tresopax, I agree with what you're saying. Just because I don't find dark skin attractive doesn't make me a racist. [NB: I don't find tanned light skin attractive either. ]
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posted
When people of whatever race, stop being discriminatory to multi-racial people then our society will have arrived. It's not how people react when others are classified as varelse that is the measure, it's how they react to quasi-raman, and can accept them as fully raman.
When I don't have to fear for my boyfriend depending on which part of the city he's in, as to which gang would look at him crosseyed today, because of his ambiguous racial characteristics. People always default to the most varelse conclusion too, the most opposite from what "they" are. To the blacks he's latino, to the latinos he's black, to most whites they think he's Arabic.
And even when he actually is in the culture where his facial characteristics fit (afro-cuban), they make assumptions about him that aren't true either. He becomes varelse when they discover he can't speak a lick of Espanol, and his white girlfriend translates for him.
quote:Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong: My view towards white America is similar, as much as we can trace our cultural, political, and intellectual heritage through the revolution, how the hell did it take 170 years for black people in this country to be seen as equal.
That's like asking how the hell (to use your phrasing) it took Africa centuries to get anywhere near Europe in the sciences.
There were events. There were economic issues. Bigotry is certainly not a uniquely American problem, and it's certainly not a uniquely white one. At the time that white Americans were trafficking in black slaves, so were black Africans.
You might ask how it is that a nation founded on principles of liberty managed not to see that they weren't living up to those principles in the case of slaves, but it's a bad question. You can't look through a retrospectoscope like that.
America was founded on lofty principles, yes. But people are people, and until a specific status quo is challenged, we often don't even notice that it needs to be challenged. Many of the founders didn't even notice that there was a contradiction involved in treating blacks as less than whites. But note that even those who did had a hard time implementing that knowledge in practice. Take Thomas Jefferson, for example. And note further that even those who got this didn't, for the most part, extend the same reasoning to women. How many black men who were troubled by their lack of equal status with white men cared the least bit about the unequal status of women, regardless of color? And it continues on even today. How many blacks or women are concerned about the denial of equal status to gays and lesbians?
quote:Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong: Here is my problem. There is something deeply wrong in our American constitution-- not the document, the zeitgeist-- that allowed for those years of indignity.
That's kind of silly. You say that like it's a particularly American thing. It's not.
quote:Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong: Who knows, it could be the same thing that can explain the atrocities in our current penal system and whatever is happening in Guantanamo bay. But whatever it is, it'll take a deep look into the character of white America, for that trait to be excised. It may mean rethinking democracy, education, christianity, economics, and politics.
Pardon me? "White America"? How offensive. The flaws you're talking about are hardly limited to one set of people based on their skin color. And I find it unbelievable that someone who is so sensitive to bias based on something as dumb as skin color would actually espouse the prejudiced views you're espousing, based on skin color. You really need to look in a mirror.
quote:Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong: Until a significant group of white people start on the project of figuring out what went wrong, and what part of that political incompetence still lives in our culture, I'm going to keep bristling against white America and white American institutions.
Then bristle. <shrug> No one owes you any such thing. My job is to make sure that I don't treat people poorly just because they look different. And to raise my child to do the same. Everyone else has the same job. Nothing "went wrong". Do you have any idea what the world used to be like? You're complaining because the progress didn't happen as fast as you would have liked?
quote:Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong: It's not an issue of reparations.
Good thing. Because I can hardly think of anything more immoral and racist than the suggestion of forcing people to pay "reparations" to other people based on skin color.
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posted
starLisa said pretty much what I was thinking, except perhaps a bit more feistily.
In other news, feistily is now a word.
The thing is, saying that the problem is "white America" is racist. Period. Because saying that the problem belongs solely to whites is the same as saying that all blacks are gangbangers who shoot up houses. And saying that you don't have a problem with individuals is the same as a racist who says that he hates N's, but he's friends with a couple who are the GOOD kind.
And do you really think that Asian or Indian immigrants have totally adopted whatever it is that you consider to be "white culture?"
I don't even understand what you MEAN by "white culture," and I don't see this:
quote:he rhetoric in the article talks around the central question, which is, why won't black men just go along and play the game like everyone else? Riches and status are available for the black man who assumes white sensibilities, why won't they just do it. It works for other immigrants.
As anything but offensive and ridiculous. It's the same as saying, "If you have status, it's because you've betrayed your heritage and sold out to the white man!"
It's offensive to MINORITIES, too. It implies that they lack the qualities to be successful on their own, so they have to adopt the tactics of other cultures.
quote:Irami, it does seem that you're saying that the problem with whites is that they lack character.
I am saying something very similar. I'm saying that they have character, and there is one facet of their character that is corrupt like a cancer. If I were a religious man, I may even say that it's a wickedness. Well someone did:
quote:"And I find it extremely discomfiting that, really to a shocking degree, love of money has pervaded Mormon society. It's something that as a people we have great cause to repent of. I think it will lead to our condemnation in the eyes of God. When I talk that way, there are some people who are extremely troubled because they think I'm saying that they're wicked. And they're correct -- I am."
Starlisa,
quote: Many of the founders didn't even notice that there was a contradiction involved in treating blacks as less than whites. But note that even those who did had a hard time implementing that knowledge in practice. Take Thomas Jefferson, for example.
This is debatable. There is a book that't just came out called the Forgotten Fifth by a historian named Nash. He devotes the second chapter to detailing how the founders did understand the contradiction, and that they accepted it anyway, kind of like what we doing right now with the right to trial and Guantanamo Bay. It was a choice the founders made, just like the firebombing of Dresden was a choice the military made. How that choice is palpable is another story. I imagine that Germany had to go through-- or at least should have had to go through-- quite a bit of soul searching after the Holocaust.
The Sun-Times ran a long excerpt of Nash's book about two weeks ago, but I'm having a hard time finding it.
quote:And note further that even those who got this didn't, for the most part, extend the same reasoning to women. How many black men who were troubled by their lack of equal status with white men cared the least bit about the unequal status of women, regardless of color? And it continues on even today. How many blacks or women are concerned about the denial of equal status to gays and lesbians?
Quite a few, actually. I do admit that a narrow understanding of christianity hems up too large of a proportion of blacks with respect to this issue, but if we took out white men from the voting pool, my gut tells me that same sex marriages would do quite a bit better in the general elections.
Don't get me wrong, I have huge problems with respect to the character of black men across the nation. I just don't talk about it on this board because, well, there are only four or five black posters on the board so I didn't think it would be worthwhile.
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quote:I am saying something very similar. I'm saying that they have character, and there is one facet of their character that is corrupt like a cancer. If I were a religious man, I may even say that it's a wickedness.
But that's not racism, right? Only the big bad white man is racist. How would you feel if someone said that exact same thing but referring to blacks?
quote:I'm saying that they have character, and there is one facet of their character that is corrupt like a cancer. If I were a religious man, I may even say that it's a wickedness.
*wipes brow* Whew. There's nothing worse than a religious bigot. So I guess you dodged that bullet.
quote:if we took out white men from the voting pool, my gut tells me that same sex marriages would do quite a bit better in the general elections.
You know, the same-sex marriage issue has actually been specifically marketed by Republicans to whip up the Hispanic vote. It's not a "white man" issue.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:I am saying something very similar. I'm saying that thier have character, and there is one facet of their character that is corrupt like a cancer. If I were a religious man, I may even say that it's a wickedness.
I'm not going to respond to this. I'm just going to post it again, alone. Irami, can you see why this is a) offensive and b) not helping to solve the problem?
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quote:But that's not racism, right? Only the big bad white man is racist. How would you feel if someone said that exact same thing but referring to blacks?
I think they'd be right, to some degree, except we have a different kind of tumor. I never said I was color blind.
Princess Leah, et al., sometimes getting to the truth includes having your feelings hurt every now and again.
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posted
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
Do you not see that you can't advocate ending racism by pushing racist attitudes?
Maybe I'm crazy. I just wrote a paper on cultural issues in business (though this was between countries in different parts of the world from one another), and pretty much, one of the biggest things you can do to promote business exchange is to increase the flow of information. You can't encourage stereotypes of the other country and expect your people to embrace them. You have to get the other country to exchange knowledge about one another's cultures. All you're doing is saying, "This is a white man's problem." You won't even explain WHY. You're just creating more conflict.
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