posted
My new job presents me with my first opportunity to join a labor union. The union in question is the UFCW . I have a list of questions. Any help answering them would be appreciated. I'd also like to hear personal stories and opinions.
1. Does union membership have any advantages in a right to work state?
2. What are the advantages of joining a union?
3. The disadvantages?
4. Is it good or bad that the union in question has broken away from the AFL-CIO?
5. Is anyone here a member of a union? If so, what do you like and dislike about it.
Posts: 4569 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
I don't live in a right to work state, and I'm not unionized (my company has been unanimously against unionization for some time, it's been voted down continously by the workers everywhere except for certain engineers in New York). However, because the unions do come in and try to get us to unionize I have learned what I can about the process.
1) In a right to work state, your employer has to prove that there is something in your job performance that causes your dismissal from the company and/or that the company is requiring lay-offs etc and that they are choosing who goes in a fair and just manner. Right to work states generally have laws regarding severance and/or the amount of notice you must be given. This can vary from state to state and you may want to check the differences between what the union offers to it's unionized employees and what the state requires sometimes it can be significantly different, sometimes not. Your company and/or the union should be able to provide you of a copy of what your benefits would look like both with and without joining the Union (although you may have to get directly with your HR department for the latter assesment, many unions don't want you to know the difference between the packages and they can be significant).
2. There are certain advantages to joining a union, particularly if the company involved has problems with increasing wages and raises etc, or if they have been known to have unfair dismissal practices in the past. The union negotiators sit down at regular intervals (depending on the length of the last contract that was written) and determines things like, health benefits for unionized employees when and how pay increases will take effect, how much they will be for and how the increase is determined, what kind of severance package an employee gets if they are terminated etc. If the company breaks one of the proceedures outlined in the contract, you can take the issue to your union rep, who will then begin the process of requiring the employer to comply with the terms of the contract, even taking the appropriate legal action if required.
3. There are indeed disadvantages to unionization. One of the most common complaints are union dues. In order to join a union you must pay dues to that union, usually on a monthly basis. Those union dues are generally taken straight out of the paycheck and are after taxes, so they'll come out of your net pay. If a company and a union are unable to come to an agreement at the time to write the next contract the union may take you out on strike. Provided that it is a legal strike, if you are a member of the unionized group you are required to strike with the rest of your workers and can be sued by the union if you continue to work. In addition, if you go out on strike, you do not get paid for the time you miss work. Some unions provide a certain amount per employee but it will not begin to cover everything you would have received in your paycheck and if you are out on strike to long you may therefore need to look for a part-time job to help cover your living expenses. Unions are also required to make certain arrangments with the state and local government before taking a group of workers out on strike. Sometimes they don't make those arrangements correctly, which makes the strike illegal. If you go out on an illegal strike, your employer can fire you, no questions asked. The terms of most union contracts are also very strict so you shouldn't expect to see pay increases outside the predetermined times outlined in the contract currently enforced.
I don't have any answers for your questions four and five. I'm not a member of a union currently and simply don't know. You may want to check with the local AFL-CIO office and find out why they broke away. Like most of my fellow employees, I'm currenly very happy without unionization. I make significantly more than most people with my job in my area of communications and have more benefits than most unionized companies in my field as well. If my employer were to begin showing unfair firing practices, drop our pay, reduce our benefits etc I would consider joining one. Check around with your fellow employees and see how they feel about the union. Check with your local Better Business Bureau about the union (and maybe your employer) and see what kind of reports they have on their business practices.
I would recommend careful consideration, because once you've joined the union it can be hard to get back out if you don't like it.
Posts: 1214 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
One more thing, if a Union rep (any rep) askes you if you are interested in learning more about unionization and asks you to sign a card DON'T DO IT unless you are sure you want to become unionized. If the union is already in place, by signing that card you just became a member. If you're company isn't unionized yet (for any who aren't in Darrell's position) if they collect enough cards you're company becomes unionized and anyone who signed becomes a member.
Posts: 1214 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
In my job I've traveled around the country a lot and overseen the construction and start up of various types of machinery. I often have installed the same type machines or conveyors multiple times in different mills, working with local workers. It was my experience in all but one case (out of dozens), that the jobsites that were unionized were 50% - 100% slower in getting the same job done, were significantly less satisfied with their work (more complaining, grousing, unhappiness), and were less competent in their workmanship than nonunion sites. The culminating example was one site in the northeast (a heavily unionized area) in which I was assigned an electrician who landed exactly 2 wires in an entire day, something I could have done myself in about 5 minutes. <laughs> That was an extreme case and it usually wasn't that bad. One unionized group in the Pacific Northwest was excellent, even. However, based on my experience, I would never join a union, and would prefer to work at a non-unionized company.
It seems to me that the best way for workers to guard against bad working conditions is with education and mobility. When your company knows you have other options, they treat you well. Once things deteriorate to the point that you have to wrangle and head-butt to legally force decent treatment, it's already too late.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
That's the kind of information I'm looking for. When you go to the UFCW web site, they talk about all the cool benefits like the pension plan and insurance, but don't mention the possible downsides, like strikes.
Another thing I couldn't find at their site is the cost of monthly dues. Is it a fixed amount every month, or a percentage of your wages? They never mentioned that. I'm confuzzled. Posts: 4569 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
It depends on the union. Most take a percentage of your wages, and it can be a big one. Others have a flat rate. If you ask, they are required to disclose it.
Posts: 1214 | Registered: Aug 2005
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One of the biggest things that I've learned about unions in my research is that they like to show off the benefits and hide the negativity. Unions are an important part of our history, when unionization first began they were very important, the beginning of a movement for fair treatment for employess which had been sorely lacking before that. There are still companies/corporations which need that extra influence to be fair and just. Many companies offer their non-unionized employees the exact same benefits as their unionized ones today though, and some offer them more, like short-term incenitives (bonuses) which unionized employees don't get because they aren't negotiated for in their contracts.
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My husband's biggest complaint with the union is the way his dues are spent politically. He has little say in what they spend it on, and they almost always spend it on candidates he personally doesn't support.
However, he remains a member becuase there are benefits that non-union employees don't have. The firefighters union is very good about taking care of the family of fallen members, they provide help with insurance should a member be sued (malpractice type insurance for the paramedics) and they have done some good things with salary negotiation so he remains a member. But if politics matter to you and you don't like the idea of your money going to candidates you don't support, it might be a problem for you.
The unions themsevles tend to be pretty corrupt, IME. For example, ask what the head of the union makes. Even the heads of local chapters tend to live very, very well.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Belle, has your husband ever tried to get any of his dues that were spent on political campaigns back. From what I've read, it is possible.
It's been a while, but if I remember correctly, if you can prove that your convictions are opposed to the candidates that the union supports, they legally have to return a portion of your dues. Of course, I think it was a long, painful process for the people discussed in the article.
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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