posted
Please, tell me you Hatrackers are reading this, have read it or are going to read it! It's abosolutely, positively *slaying me*.
Okay. I admit to being one of those strange ten year olds who sat around reading Dickens and Shakespeare for fun. It was challenging, fun, and after years getting pneumonia every stinking fall/winter, I was sick unto death of Nancy Drew pap, and begged my mom to bring me something thick and wordy.
Ah, the joys of the Victorian novel! Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell immitates that style without putting you to sleep. Victorian era Third Person Omniscient is a BEYOTCH - don't let anyone tell you differently - but this writer makes it fun.
I wish I could quote a bit of here to show you, but I fear a smackdown from on high. I've been reading bits of it aloud to the hubby, and we giggle together over the tasty, twisted wit.
I wanna talk about it, and all my mommy friends are trying not to make eye contact and pretending to get cell phone calls.
Posts: 1664 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Hmm. I looked at it longingly in a bookshop just this last weekend. I think I'll put it on my "to be read next" list - I have to finish William's "Otherworld" series first - one book left!
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I picked up a copy of it a few weeks ago, but I have a bunch of other books in my reading queue as well so I'm not sure when I'll get to it...
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
Olivette-- Strange and Norrell is wonderful-- if there were required reading for fantasy fans, this would be in my top 3. (The other two being Hart's Hope and Lord of the Rings)
Don't worrry-- it keeps being wonderful, throughout the whole book. The last fifty pages or so is markedly more grim than the rest of the book-- but when you get there, you'll understand why.
quote:I feel I should confess that I am only 100 pages or so into it, so it's possible it could go sour.
Well, for what it's worth, it never went sour for me. It was a great read - but I read Dickens for fun in high school.
I read it back in the glorious break I had during December, along with finishing up the Dark Tower, and the Tawny Man trilogy.
Posts: 4344 | Registered: Mar 2003
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And I love the ending. To add to Scott's post: it's grimly genteel. Pitch perfect.
What's beautiful about the book is that neither the literariness of it nor that fantasy-ness of it comes across a being ashamed of itself [something that happens in the last Dark Tower novel, imo]. Nor does either [and to separate it out is almost impossible because it's all of one lovely piece] compromise the other's effectiveness.
It's one of the few works that, once I read it, made me incredibly, insanely jealous.
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Wow, this is the third time this book has been shouted from the Hatrack rooftops as an excellent find. One was TomDavidson, one was me, and now Olivet. I'm glad it's getting the attention it deserves. I absolutely loved it, particularly the parts about Stephen Black and the man with the thistle down hair.
On a side note, I have just finished Sarah Vowell's fantastic historical romp "Asassination Vacation" which describes the asassinations of Presidents Lincoln, Garfield, and McKinley. It isn't a schlarly work, or a dry text for a history class, but rather a sort of extended This Ameican Life piece on paper. For example, the kind of detail Vowell includes is that John Wilkes Booth knew the play Lincoln was seeing, so he waited for a big laugh line to fire his shot. Vowell even includes the line. She takes comfort in the fact that the last thing Lincoln ever did was have a good guffaw.
Anyway, the reason I'm telling you this, is that reading her description of James Garfield, I kept on envisioning him as Mr Norrell from the book being recommended in this thread.
Posts: 894 | Registered: Apr 2000
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I loved this book. I bought it for myself with my Christmas gift certificate to B&N, and I adored it. The footnotes were so long and often so unnecessary--they made me smile, especially that extra long one about Jonathan Strange's father's servant. And neither I nor my mother, who was reading it around the same time as I was, could stop laughing when we were reading the bit where the man with the thistle-down hair told Stephen about how he had found out his name. Brilliant.
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It's not in my style. I picked up a copy from the library, but I think that there is only so much I can take. Comedies of manners, written sideways, only seem to work for me if I have some sort of emotional attachment to the manners. I felt as if the book were written for someone with alien sensibilities. I don't think it's an english thing. I feel the same way about Tom Clancy and most science fiction, and I don't feel that way about Wodehouse or Sayers.
Dickens, for me, is easy to start and hard to finish.
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Dan and I are reading this right now (aloud, before bed, so it's slow going - roughly a chapter a night). I love the footnotes, too.
Posts: 3214 | Registered: Apr 2002
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I think the hard thing for most readers is that it's done in third person omniscient, which is hard to do and doesn't give the reader a solid POV character (unlike, say, Sayer).
But for those of us who cut our teeth on Dickens, by gods it's good.
I had pimped this on LiveJournal, too, and the only response I got was from the same gentleman who found pictures of Ben so charming. He's one of the writers' group. Anyway, he felt the same as you, Irami.
I think it's just one of those things you either love or hate, like Tolkien or Dickens. But if you like both of those, you'll probably love this.
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I must admit to a strange atavistic nervousness about people who do not like this book. Clearly, they are strangers to me.
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Oh, I'm not bothered by third-omniscient. It makes it much more likely that I can actually trust the narrator. It freaks me out (though not always in a bad way) when I feel like I can't trust the narrator.
Though, last night Dan and I had a short discussion on who exactly the protagonist was, and the antagonist. I'm not sure we came to a conclusion - and I know our answers have changed as the story has progressed.
Posts: 3214 | Registered: Apr 2002
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I too can't begin to recommend this book enough; however, it seems that whenever I recommend it to people I get blank stares followed by half-hearted mutterings of how maybe they will read it. Of course, I often describe it as the kind of fantasy book Charles Dickens would write, which to me is a compliment, but to others may be a deterrent.
Posts: 194 | Registered: Feb 2005
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Ah, Vana! (I think it's so cool that you guys read to each other like that - Ron and I do, too) I know what you mean. I like 3rd omni but people don't use it so much anymore. Chabon did to great effect in the ... The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay (don't kill me if I got the title wrong). But it is seldom done well in this day and age, at least in America.
Plus, most writing teachers advise against using it, OSC included, if I am not mistaken. Not that it shouldn't be done, but that inexperienced writers make a mess of it, usually.
THIS book is a journeyman project, though, for all its being her first novel, IMO.
Posts: 1664 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Of course, before we finally bought it, I couldn't ever remember the title - but I could remember what the cover looked like. So I took to calling it "Mrs. Norris Eats a Bird."
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I finished it some time ago, and I was thinking of your discussion of who the protagonist is.
I think it's the Raven King, which is funny, since he's hardly in it at all. I think that it is the fruition of his plans, only told from the outside. Yeppers, I think he's the hero.
Anybody wanna talk about this book with me?
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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I'm so bad. This book has been sitting on my nightstand, unfinished, for some time now. I'm nearing the end and for some reason put it down and haven't picked it back up. I resolve to finish soon!
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It's hard to say who the protagonist is, although the Raven King was an interesting idea. I almost feel like John Childermass was the protagonist, although I can't quite explain why. Hmmm... I'll have to think about that one.
I loved the book! It's funny, I couldn't put it down, but my wife has been slogging through it for the last two months. I think that whether or not one likes the book depends on how much one likes classic literature. Like I said before, I think that JS&MN feels like the kind of fantasy book Charles Dickens would have written. In this way it's one of those rare fantasy books that rises above schlock and becomes art.
Posts: 194 | Registered: Feb 2005
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I finished it! I was a lot farther along than what I had remembered - less than 100 pages from the end.
I did enjoy it quite a bit, and wish that it hadn't taken me so long to finish. Taking a long break from a book like that really makes the story lose momentum. I loved the footnotes and the way the humor was so matter-of-fact. I'm still not quite sure what I think of the very end - not quite what I expected, but that's good I think. As for the protagonist, I can definately see the Raven King. However, is it possible for the book to have more than one protagonist? Because I could see the argument for Childermass as well. I'll have to mull that over a bit. Usually I don't do well with discussion till I've had a few days to think about the book in its entirety.
posted
I can see Childermass as a protagonist as well, But the Raven King intrigues me. Everything that happens is obviously part of his prophecy, or perhaps even part of some unbelievably complicated spell of his. Then I think, what is the purpose? If it is to bring back English magic, then... why did he allow the magic to fade?
It almost makes more sense as an elaborate scheme to do away with a dangerous and powerful enemy, the Man with the Thistledown Hair. I think maybe allowing English Magic to fade so that the only magic left was fairy magic may have been necessary to get rid of TMWTTH. He was obvously a menace to humanity.
I loved Stephen Black, though. He can't really be the Protagonist in the traditional sense, since he's really pretty helpless in most of the story, but we definitely identify with him most. I did, anyway.
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posted
I'm glad that in the end Stephen at least got rewarded for all of his trouble and courage. Like you said, he appeared helpless throughout most of the novel, but he went out of his way to protect his master and associates. It seems like most servants would have unleashed all hell on their masters if given half a chance.
Posts: 194 | Registered: Feb 2005
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Finally finished! I haven;t been able to read too much lately, and I am not a very fast reader, but boy was it worth it!
I just adore Dickens, and that whole genre of wordiness, so it fit beautifully in mys favored styles.
Interesting point about the Raven King being the protagonist, Olivia. I will think about that.
I cried like a baby at th end, though, when Jonathan went off in the pillar of darkness without Arabella. I choose to think they are reunited. But I loved the ending nonetheless.
As with Dickens, I laughed out loud at some of the language, especially in the last bit with Childermnass and Vinculus. "Being a book..." Things like that. How he was going to carry him, etc.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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The ending was tough, I admit. He didn't ask, because he knew she would come with him and he didn't want to subject her to the darkness, and she didn't offer.
I'm so glad you liked it!
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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I haven't finished yet, so I only skimmed the thread, but I'm about 150 pages through.
It excited me to see a thread regarding a book I randomly grabbed the last time I was at Borders. Judging by the pieces I picked up while skimming, I chose well.
Hopefully I will finish tonight (or tomorrow) and can then contribute something actually worthwhile to the discussion.
Posts: 866 | Registered: Aug 2005
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I have been pimping this book to so many people, recently, in the hopes of spreading the word. Discussion would be great.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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I quite liked it, but I don't really have anything in particular I want to say about it other than that. I tend to just appreciate art without analysis. Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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Did you know that the faulty search function here on this forum brings up 5 different threads with this same title?
Interesting.
I just finished it tonight. The last 300 pages made the 500 page exposition completely worth it. It took me 2-3 weeks to plow through the first 2/3 of the book, and about 2 days to get through the last part. It's like it started rolling down hill and I had to read faster and faster and faster until I found out what happened!!
*spoilers ahead*
I was quite satisfied with the fates of all involved, but I have to say the MOST satisfying was that of Lascelles. I laughed most gleefully at the end of that chapter. It was perfect.
I was so sad that Bell and Strange couldn't be together at the very end, but I suppose it worked. I'm glad she at least gave us the satisfaction of seeing them say goodbye.
Great stuff though, I'm glad I was patient enough to get through it, it was worth it.
(I'm tempted now to go back and reread the parts where Norrell summons the fairy to save Lady Pole. Strange had such trouble summoning that same fairy and had to resort to making himself go mad to do it....so how was Norrell so able to do it? Is she implying that he was a little cracked himself? I wouldn't doubt it.
I have to say that I wanted Norrell to have a nastier fate. The fact that he's stuck in the darkness with Strange and chained to his side is rather fitting I guess, but the vengeful person deep inside of me wanted to see him get HIS. But I guess him having to admit that he and Strange are equals and see England filled with 'new' magicians was punishment enough for him.)
Posts: 6415 | Registered: Jul 2000
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Yay, Narnia! It's funny you had a harder time with the beginning where I found the beginning totally drew me in, but I had a harder time keeping my stamina until the last 100 pages or so, when I was sucked back in.
Love the ending of Lascelles, too, and thought there was a certain justice to Drawlight's ending too. Here's a guy who wants to be the life of the party, the center of the action, and he ends up being background, literally.
Am I the only one that felt that this is only the first novel in a series? Or is that so obvious that no one felt the need to mention it? Or am I totally off base in thinking there will be more? Strange and Norrell were just part of a Raven King plan, which isn't yet fulfilled.
And...when Norrell brings up the gentleman with the thistledown hair, there is recognition there, like he asked for this particular fairy by name. Yet that name is never given, and I kept thinking all the way through that we were going to find out how that fairy was used by one of the previous Aeureate magicians. Or did I miss something?
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Yeah, that's right jeniwren! I don't think he had ever met this fairy before, but it seemed that he knew who he would be. Sheesh, was he a dispicable fairy!! I LOVED his ending too, it was positively creepy and fantastic at the same time.
I've not heard if there's supposed to be a series. I got the feeling that the Raven King's whole point was to bring English magic back to England. Norrell and Strange did that and now there are magicians running around everywhere. He even changed the writing on Vinculus...I wish I knew what it was, but Childermass seemed to think it was new instructions for their particular magical age. Very cool. I do love Childermass and I loved his meeting with the Raven King after Vinculus was hanged. So cool!
Posts: 6415 | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
I read this book after OSC suggested it. It was a good book, but I honestly didn't feel any real impact from it. Books that I love stick with me, affect my world view etc. This book only affected me as entertainment and nothing more.
Posts: 4548 | Registered: May 2001
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