posted
As I suspect would others here. We all know you aren't happy and barely scraping by where you are. I'm sorry the rabbit doesn't seem to be working out. I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of us in your Hatrack "family" that are concerned for you, not just me.
An intentional community was suggested once before as a possible solution. http://www.twinoaks.org/ is in Virginia, and shouldn't be too hard to get to from where you are. http://www.thefec.org/ and http://fic.ic.org/ have links to other intentional communties. I believe we have a hatracker who is a member of East Wind in Missouri. Look them over, and see if one would fit you better than Twin Oaks, though that one looks like it might be your best choice.
They have a three week "trial" where you can attempt to see if you like the lifestyle. They grade the cost of that period based on financial hardship, with the lowest cost at $50. If it looks like something you'd consider, let me know. I know one of your objections is that you don't have money to get there. I'm willing to personally arrange for your bus fare there and your fee while you stay there.
They require you to have a 10-day waiting period if you decide for sure to stay, and are willing to arrange accommodations if you have hardship, though we could probably figure out a way so that your rent is paid for the 3 weeks you are gone.
I know it would be a huge change, but even if they require you to work 42 hours a week it sounds like it would be better than what you are dealing with at the grocery store.
Think it over. I suspect there are more people here than just me, who would be willing to help you out if you decided this might be a change that would work for you.
posted
Was looking at the Twin Oaks, they say they will be at capacity if one more member joins, but there is the "Acorn" sister community nearby that might be an alternative.
posted
I'm all for this, too. If Mark and I weren't so attached to our computers and individual lifestyles, we would definitely consider joining a community like this. I could see it working extremely well for Syn. Why not give it a shot?
Actually, I don't think it's really the high-tech stuff that's really keeping me from doing something like this. I think I'm just really invested in my career ambitions. While I think I'd find a lot of satisfaction from working in a community like these, I'd miss climbing the corporate ladder. I'm such a sell-out.
posted
Zeguma, I agree. My dog breeding hobby wouldn't fit in well with the lifestyle though, simply because it is too selfish and wouldn't contribute enough to the community. The Monks of New Skete have made it work but they are the exception not the rule.
posted
hmmm. I'll consider it... but, if it is some place where I can focus on writing and not worry about having to get some lame job that doesn't have anything to do with writing, which is what I keep looking for now... I just don't know if I can take 3 weeks off of work. Next week, I hope, I am getting a vacation to see DMITRI but three weeks though... There's a delicate balance involved...
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote: If someone wishes to bring their pet after becoming a member, the pet makes a formal visit after the person has become a member, and will have a separate membership poll. There are also 3-week and 6-month polls for pets to make sure they are fitting in alright.
"The latest internal polls are in, and it's not looking good, Fluffy...I mean, 22% from the all-important Lesbian/Anarchist bloc! We have to re-work your image, you need a bunny makeover."
Posts: 327 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Syn, I think living in an intentional community would be a great source for ideas for your writing. Yes, you'd still have to work 40-42 hours a week. That's life. But the rest of the time, you wouldn't have to sit around fretting about whether you could afford your next meal. You could focus on *writing*. And you'd be able to see the value to the community of the work you did do, rather than spinning your wheels at the grocery store.
I suspect they'd let you bring your computer, since most of them have websites. You should also see the reading lists of what people have read recently. I think they'd inspire you.
posted
I look on work as the modern equivalent of hunting and gathering. It is what I do so that I can do the things I want with the rest of my time.
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posted
Hey Syn, are you doing any writing currently? How often do you sit down and really write?
If the answer is "not often", then you really don't have much to lose, do you?
You can always tell your boss that you're going through a really tough time right now, and you need some time off (unpaid, of course!) to collect your thoughts. See if s/he'd respond well to that. At my job, you can take a "leave of absence" unpaid for a while if you have an emergency or something.
But really, even if you were to lose your supermarket job because of the three-week visit, how bad would that be? You can always find another supermarket job. And everyone has to take a risk every now and then. Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Can someone help me understand what these communities are and why Syn may be interested? I just noticed in another thread s/he had concerns about peak oil. Are these nature based communities--kinda like the Amish without the religious aspect? Or is it a vaction place to unwind and be creative?
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
We had a girl from twin oaks come speak at my college last year. It was very interesting. I also thought we had a member here a couple years ago who was a part of one of these communities. Actually I was pretty sure that he or she was a part of the twin oaks community. Does anyone else remember this?
posted
I'm blanking on his screen name though I'd recognize it if I saw it. But he's a member of the East Wind community in Missouri if I remember correctly.
posted
plaid has spent some time at Twin Oaks and another intentional community, so it might be.
Now I'm thinking a story about someone hiding out at one of these communities for some reason would be pretty cool.
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posted
lem, many of these communities were inspired out of the 60s peace movement and some of them have succeeded. They've generally become more organized and tech savvy, and most have not rejected modern technology like the Amish.
You could describe them as left-wing, but generally in a pacifist sense, where they just want to live quietly and simply and contribute to a community. Many are very "Green" in inclination, and try to live as quietly with nature as possible, while still supporting themselves.
So, do they live and work there? Do they live someplace else? I just wonder how they financially support themselves. Is it like a subdivision where you buy land in a certain neighborhood around people with similar values, but you keep your old job?
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
You have to click on each site. Acorn's primary business is selling seeds. Twin Oaks makes hammocks, another sells exotic nut butters. Most of them are in semi-rural areas, but it depends on the exact setup of the intentional community.
http://www.ic.org/acorn/projects.html gives an interesting insight into their every day life. Including an on the side wooden dildo business, that leaves me wondering about splinters...
posted
Well think about it, send e-mails to a couple of places and tell them where you are now, what you want out of life and that you are willing to work hard as long as you can see that it contributes in general, rather than being stuck in a dead end grocery store and see what they say...
posted
OK. But, I just don't know why it has to be hard just to get a second or new part-time job... There has to be something I am doing wrong... I have graduated from college, I have 10 months experience in the Americorps... I just don't see why it has to be so darn difficult just to get my foot in the door.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
If you stayed with a place like this for a couple years though, you would end up with resources and a network to help you get in at other places. Many of the people are involved in liberal activist groups on the side and I could see you working in perfectly in some sort of capacity in one of them. But I'm truly getting worried about you, I think you need a place where you don't have to stress out about life, and someplace like this might be a good way to help you rebalance.
posted
I lived at East Wind until recently -- I moved in December to Virginia. I'm living near Twin Oaks (in Charlottesville, 45 minutes away), and I'm planning on moving to Twin Oaks when my health is in better shape (I'm taking time off to deal with health stuff).
Anyway, thanks Banna and others for encouraging Syn to visit Twin Oaks -- I really think you'd love it, Syn. I'd also be happy to help out with getting you a bus ticket or other expenses.
Twin Oaks has sometimes had a one-week visit option, for folks who want to do a shorter visit to get the flavor of the place. If they still do, I'd encourage you to do a one-week visit -- I think you'd like it, and that'd give you the confidence to go ahead and do a regular 3-week visitor period. (I just emailed one of TO's membership folks to ask if the option still exists, I'll let you know what she says!)
Twin Oaks is pretty full right now, but there's always folks coming and going -- even if there were to be a waiting list for joining, it'd be no more than a month or two. Meanwhile, Acorn Community is nearby (10 miles away), and while they're also pretty full, they'd be likely to have an opening, and they're a nice group of mostly young folks (20s), I go over there a lot to hang out, and you'd probably be happy spending time there while you're waiting to get into Twin Oaks.
Posts: 2911 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
*Hugs plaid* I'm sorry for forgetting your screen name. I remembered *you*. Hope you get recuperated! Would Syn have time to pursue her writing if she lived in one of these communities?
posted
Oh, definitely. I knew a couple folks at East Wind who wrote novels while they were there. Twin Oaks even usually has a weekly writers' support group.
One of the neat thing about community living = the 42 hours is more comparable to working a 30-hour job. The 42 hours includes things like childcare, cleaning, cooking, dishwashing -- all the work that one normally has to do outside of one's regular job. Plus, you don't have to worry about commuting time... so you really have a lot more time.
There's usually a lot of creative stuff going on at Twin Oaks -- they have a studio art building, and they put on a play or two every year. This weekend they're putting on "Cabaret," I'm looking forward to seeing that!
Oh yeah, and there's a lot of cute women there, Syn. Posts: 2911 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
I agree change is scary. But, I think Syn is strong enough to handle it. She's handled so much other stuff that comes her way on her own.
I was just thinking it would be nice for her to be in a comunity that is geared towards supporting each other so she doesn't feel as alone. And I think these communities fall in well with her own idealogy. Hatrack for all our get togethers, is a poor substitute for having people to live with that care about you. But if we could give her a helping hand to get her to that place it would definitely be worth it.
It is up to her though, it is a big step to make, but she's said she needs a change herself.
posted
Dags, since you are better at fine print, if she wrote one book that got published while she was there, and then left, would she be able to make personal money from booksignings, even if the royalties went to Twin Oaks?
And, would she be able to use the publicity from her first Great American Novel, for her second one, which she could get royalties from if she no longer lived at the community?
quote:Dags, since you are better at fine print, if she wrote one book that got published while she was there, and then left, would she be able to make personal money from booksignings, even if the royalties went to Twin Oaks?
Way to specific a question for me to answer when she needs to rely on it. She'd need real legal advice on this. I'm sure it's come up before, though, so I bet they would answer the question for her. They might not even want her royalties, but the distinction they make about preexisting royalties raises the possibility in my mind. I don't get the impression they're greedy, just that they take the communal property thing very, very seriously.
But if Syn wants to write and possibly make a living at it, she must get this question answered by a lawyer reviewing the legal documents involved. It's too important not to look into in advance.
quote:And, would she be able to use the publicity from her first Great American Novel, for her second one, which she could get royalties from if she no longer lived at the community?
This is much, much less likely to be a problem. Again, though, I'd see a lawyer about it.
posted
My egalitarian side is coming out. While I realize the necessity of personal property laws, if they provided a supportive enough environment that she did write the next "Great American Novel" while she was there, in my mind they probably deserve the royalties for providing the environment where it could come to fruition. However I could see a compromise at like 80% going to the community and 20% to oneself.
quote: As a feminist culture, at Twin Oaks we tend to disregard traditional gender roles and behavior. Women and men choose their roles in the community based on their interests, strengths, and passions, not on anyone else's preconceived notions. Women and men operate chainsaws and drive tractors, and men and women cook and care for children. We all wear clothing we find comfortable--pants for working in, skirts for coolness or festivity, heedless of mainstream ideas of "acceptable" fashion choices. Our commitment to fostering a supportive and joyful environment for all people—women, men, lesbians, gays, and children--is an integral part of Twin Oaks Community.
We organize and host a yearly Women's Gathering to celebrate our creativity, culture, and diversity in a women-only space. We have also hosted gatherings for QIC (Queer in Community).
posted
It sounds very interesting. I'd like to visit just to experience it. It would probably also make for the basis of a novel, I'm thinking. Hmm. The ideas are starting to float around my head. Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Re: books and money... I'll ask folks when I'm out there next. I know that in the case of a woman who sold some paintings while she was there, what she did was to take hours for her artwork (it counted towards her regular work quota) and the money went to the community. Since folks there do art all the time on their own, I think that's only a retro sort of deal -- if you sell your stuff, then you can choose to claim hours for it if the money goes to community.
Posts: 2911 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Syn -- another great aspect of Twin Oaks and other communities = the work is great. There's all sorts of work, and schedules are way flexible, and you can work in several different areas. In my own case, when I was at East Wind, farming was my favorite work, and that's what I did the most... but I also did office work, cooking, childcare, committee work, cleaning, etc. Since most of the work is enjoyable, it's really easy to accumulate overtime hours -- there were times when I had three months' worth of overtime accumulated, which made it easy to take time off and travel during the winter.
And you can pick up all sorts of skills -- office, accounting, computer, carpentry, construction, farming, warehouse, cooking, etc. -- folks I know who've been in community have used the skills they learned to get all sorts of nice jobs after they left.
Posts: 2911 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Wasnt twin oaks originally based on Walden 2 by Skinner? Plaid do you know if they continue to follow his behavioral theories in the book? Or have they drifted away from its original intent? I know it has been a fairly succesfull planned community compared to some others which have had a hard time staying afloat.
Posts: 473 | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Syn -- I heard back from the woman on the Membership Committee at Twin Oaks -- she says that they usually don't do one-week visits any more, but that they might be able to let you do one in June or July. Let me know if you're interested (or you can go ahead and email them yourself -- the address = twinoaks AT ic.org, her name = Valerie).
Posts: 2911 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Promethius -- Twin Oaks was originally started by some folks inspired by "Walden Two." They pretty much start improvising right away, and the main things that the community shares in common with Walden Two = its labor system, and that it's democratic and secular and has a Board of Planners who do major planning. In some ways Walden Two's biggest usefulness was that it gave Twin Oaks's founders ideas of things to try and contributed to the common culture of the community.
Behaviorism was never practiced much. There were a few experiments in the first couple years, and some folks built a Skinner box that never got used, but that's about it.
(If you want to read more about Walden Two and Twin Oaks, Kat Kinkade, one of the founders of Twin Oaks, wrote an article comparing the book to the reality of Twin Oaks in a 1999 issue of Communities magazine, it's in issue #103.)
OK, so I asked at Twin Oaks when I was over there last week. A guy named Sean had just had a gallery show here in Charlottesville of some of his paintings and sculptures, and he sold a thousand dollars' worth of stuff during the course of the show. In Sean's case, what he did was to claim $100 of it as his own earnings, for works that he did while he was away from the community on vacation; that $100 goes into his VE (Vacation Earnings) account, which he can spend whenever he's away from the community on vacation.
The other $900 worth of sales, for works he did while at Twin Oaks, went to the community, and he claimed regular work hours -- so, taking the $900, dividing it up by $8/hour, and so claiming ~110 hours of work time for his artwork. (In actuality, the work took him more like ~250 hours, but if you're wanting to claim hours for artwork, it has to be on the basis of that minimum $8/hour figure, since that's the minimum of what they earn in their different businesses.)
I asked him about royalties for writing -- Sean said he was pretty sure that if one left the community after selling writing written while there, that all the royalties would go to the author.
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