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OK Guys I've got a dilemma. I know what I NEED to do about it, but I just don't know if I will be ABLE to do it.
This is about my beloved Kitties by the way.
First some background. About 5 years ago my hubby comes home with 5 Kittens. He found them in a warehouse. The people that owned the warehouse moved out and didn't realize that a momma kitty had had kittens behind some pallets. The Momma kitty had gotten run over and was cut in half without anyone realizing what had happened. My hubby worked next door and was walking around outside and heard mewling sounds and went to investigate. He found the 5 newborn kitties suckling on the dead stiff momma, of course he brought them home. We called the vet (who said that they could only be a few days old as their eyes were still closed) to find out how to take care of them. We got baby kitty formula and bottle fed them every few hours, including getting up in the middle of the night and rushing home at lunch breaks. We were the first ones they saw when they opened their eyes. We made the mistake of changing the kitty formula and it made them all sick I had to rush them all to the vet om my half hour lunch break so the vet could keep them over night and give them rehydration shots. Sadly one of the kitties did not survive this ordeal. We now had 4. We decided to give 2 to friend of mine. We still have the 2, Porky and Sneaks. When I tell you guys that we love these kitties.. Well I'm sure some of you know how much you can love a pet. A few months ago Porky got out and got lost and went missing for 2 months. We cried and cried and cried. When we found him around Christmas time, well it was the best Christmas present ever. (We had also acquired another kitty, Willow, around this time so now we have 3.)
Now heres the dilemma. For whatever reason the kitties (Porky and Sneaks) only like the immediate family. If anyone else comes over to the house they tend to freak out. Sometimes they are just stand-offish and sometimes they growl and hiss. We usually make a point of putting them up when a lot of people come over. If we don't put them up we at least warn people to leave them alone.
Well my mother-in-law came to visit about a year and a half ago. She was there 2 weeks. We kept the kitties up at first and then they seemed to get to know her better. We let them out here and there. One day she was alone in the house with them and realized it and got scared. I think they smelled her fear and they cornered her and attacked. Luckily my hubby was just right out side and ran in and had to kick the kitties away. My mother-in-law got bit on the leg and so did hubby.
Well my Sis came to visit this weekend. For whatever reason I did not put the kitties up. . We were laying on my bed the kitties were being good. Sneaks came up and layed down on me. Then she went to check out my sis. Then back to me. About this time my sister says "wow this is kinda like a scary movie...." and at that point Sneaks attacked. My sister was able to get under the covers quickly but then Sneaks turned on me, and then Willow joins in (I'm not really sure if Willow was attacking me or Sneaks but either way I was the one that got the brunt). I went to the emergency room afraid that I might need stitches (which I didn't, the worst was from the bites on the head which they didn't want to sew up because of risk of infection). Now I must tell you that I am ok.. but had this happened to my 10 year old daughter or had my sister brought her 6 year old daughter or had they got my face instead of my head, arms, and leg if could have REALLY been bad.
I know that it is irresponsible to keep cats like this. But we do love them dearly. Sneaks is my daughter's cat and I honestly don't know how she would handle it. (On a side note.. hubby and I have seperated in the past few weeks. This has been REALLY hard on my daughter especially.. I don't know if she could handle losing her beloved Sneaks on top of everything that is going on right now).
Posts: 295 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I had to deal with an attacking kitty in the past, but it never got this bad. I think it had something to do with the fact that she was 22lbs and could not move around much. She has since calmed down, but I do not know if I would recomend waiting around with that group. I love kittens, too, and I understand why you would not want to give them up.
Posts: 262 | Registered: Feb 2004
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The "Friend" that took the other 2 ended up making the outdoor kitties and they ran away. I still feel bad about that. Posts: 295 | Registered: Jul 2004
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It sounds like your two are basically feral cats who think that your immediate family is also feline. Is that your take on it too?
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Oh.. and we have them both fixed and declawed so all of damage was done with the teeth and back claws.
Posts: 295 | Registered: Jul 2004
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If I were you, I'd get rid of them. Then again, it's not like I am a cats' man - so do what you feel you need to do. I know you know what you need to do - but you must have the ability to do it.
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Oh, okay, if you've had them fixed then the question is moot, in terms of what I was thinking.
Yeah, when a cat is serious about hurting something, they're going to use their back legs--that's how they do most of their damage, typically.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Jonathan, I assume you're suggesting that the thing to do here is have them euthenized? That's the obvious solution, of course, but it's possible that they can be conditioned not to attack. It's too bad Anne Kate isn't here anymore--she'd probably have some good suggestions.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Wow! One in a million to achieve correct spelling of an 8-letter name!
quote: euthenized
No, not necessarily euthanasia - possibly sending them somewhere for treatment? An animal must be killed - if at all - only as a last resort, and if it is sufferring terribly.
Posts: 2978 | Registered: Oct 2004
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Did you talk to your vet about it? There is medication out there that would calm them down, if you don't mind having to force feed them pills.
Posts: 4292 | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
You know, my boyfriends cat has put us in a similar situation. He found her when she was about 8 weeks old, and she was definately feral. Even as a kitten, she could do some serious damage. Now, as an adult, she only accepts certain people other than my boyfriend. When I first moved in with him, she terrified me. I'd look under the bed every morning, cause most of the time she was waiting to hamstring me. Eventually, she got used to me, and now I'm her favorite human next to Jake. However, she is still extremely aggressive to any visitors we have who get in her or our space.
A big part of the problem with my boyfriends cat was that he SPOILED her rotten. I used to get so mad at him, cause when she attacked me, he would comfort HER. He never gave her negative consequences for her scratching other people. As soon as she stopped terrifying me, I set out to rectify this problem. Every time she growled at, laid her ears back, and or attacked any human, I was after her like an angry tornado. I wouldn't let her run away, and I'd grab her by the scruff of the neck, letting her know that I was dominant, and she'd get yelled at. Then, she would get put in the bathroom or outside. I know it sounds mean, but it's worked so far. A water bottle kept near at hand when guests are over worked really well too. It just wasnt acceptable that an animal we were responsible for would harm a guest of ours. But, we couldnt give her up, either. We also make sure to warn people well in advance, and to tell them that even if she looks cute and like she wants some lovin', not to touch her. It sounds like your 2 adopted kitties are dominant, and your newer kitty is submissive. If you convince the other two that every time they threaten someone outside of their family (or inside), that all holy terror will rain down on their heads, the other one will probably follow. It's like having a dog who threatens strangers. It is an understandable response, but the dog HAS to know that there are limits to his defensive behavior, and if he exceeds those limits there will be serious consequences. Feral cats need the same knowledge, and if they cant accept that, then they arent really pets. They are wild animals that happen to share your home with you.
Posts: 499 | Registered: Mar 2004
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I think tough love is in order here. I know it is hard to discipline your pets (especially cats) because you feel like they are your babies. But in the long run it is for their own good.
Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Try the training methods, but be prepared to get rid of them if they don't respond after a month or so.
I had to get rid of beautiful dong that we adopted from the pound as a kid; he had been abused, and was just too far gone for even a loving family to rehabilitate.
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You adopted a DONG, Kwea? I didnt think that was legal in the US.
I'm sorry, that might not have been funny. It is really hard to have to give up a pet.
You know Beren, it is funny how hard people find it to discipline their cats, when they wont hesitate to yell at their dogs. I mean, a cat is so much more likely to take advantage of the fact that it knows you are a pushover, and in REALLY intelligent ways. Maybe not quite as destructive as a dog, but your more likely to be a slave to your cat than you are to a dog. Unless you're the boss. Right. And delusional. (that was my cat typing)
And, babager, I dont in any way mean to imply that this is your problem with your kitties. I have no idea, and I wouldnt want to assume. But, in my experience, this is what was neccessary to keep a cat that we loved very much but whose behavior we couldnt tolerate.
Posts: 499 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Jonathan - There is no place to send cats for treatment. "No-kills" will not accept them because they will not be able to adopt them out - and the rest of the shelters will put them to sleep for good reason.
For every human being born there is something like 47 cats born. There are too many cats and not enough homes. Plain and simple. Shelters are forced to make hard decisions - and if it's a choice between well-adjusted cats and vicious ones they have to help the former and give the latter a humane end.
I agree that animals should only go to sleep if suffering. I agree that behavioral issues should be dealt with if at all possible. First we have to get people to spay/neuter and reduce the surplus animals. That way shelters, cat rescues, etc ... would have more leeway and more resources to give to the animals.
I got bitten by a cat in the first joint of one of my fingers and lost partial use of that finger for almost 2 years. That's after seeing a hand specialist, and IV antibiotics. If this happened to someone that adopted from a shelter, and the adoptor could prove the shelter knew the cat had issues - well, a shelter that is sued means all the animals lose.
I once knew of a cat that held his people hostage. He would corner them on the couch for hours.
My suggestion would definitely be a pet therapist - it's their best hope! Other than that you have to just remember to keep them away from visitors. Michelle
Posts: 152 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
One of my mom's cats seems to have some weird form of kitty PTSD. Whenever he hears the sound of a scared/angry cat--once when there was a stranger cat hanging around outside and terrorizing Mom's cats through the window, and once when Mom accidentally stepped on another cat's foot--he attacks the nearest human. Both times it's been my mom. The first time she went to the doc for wound treatment and antibiotics, the second time she just toughed it out. The cat is up-to-date on his shots, so we're not too worried about disease as long as the wounds are cleaned out thoroughly and promptly.
Unfortunately for your situation, the above posters are right--there is no way to "get rid of" your cats other than having them put to sleep. If you give them to a shelter, they'll be euthanized, and if you give them to another home they'll likely be so crazy that they'll be put down or given to a shelter and then put down. Since they attack under very specific circumstances--non-family members--I would continue to sequester them under those circumstances. You're running a risk of being sued if you leave them where they can attack guests in your home. In addition to this, if you can find "outsiders" willing to run the risk of participating, you can try the training methods mentioned elsewhere in the thread.
Personally, I really hope that you'll keep your kitties. Not doing so is a death sentence for them But ultimately you have to decide what will be best for your family.
Posts: 957 | Registered: Aug 2002
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She was reading over my shoulder, Beren, and just couldnt let it go. She is rather proud of her sarcastic ability, and will sacrifice some diginity in order to get a good jab in.
And Michelle, dont I know it! I suffered some serious scratches, and started carrying around a pair of leather working gloves, before Janie showec any significant progress. But she really did progress. She stops at the merest sign of a loud TSK... most of the time.
I do want to say that if you try everything and it doesn't work out not to beat yourself up. I promise you that a lot of people would have harmed them, tossed them out, or already surrendered them.
I consider pets members of my family - obviously you do also. Clearly you are doing your best and whatever you decide you have to believe that. You have to trust yourself to make the best decisions that you can. And you have to forgive yourself even if it doesn't work out.
In the end, humane euthanasia is much better than giving them to someone that might get vindictive if they misbehave. Michelle
Posts: 152 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I have been reading about rabbits, maybe what they were saying about rabbits would work for cats. Perhaps there is something that sets the cats off and makes them attack. Maybe there is a way to find out what it is... Other than that the only thing you could do is lock them in a room of their own whenever strangers come over or something...
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I had a cat who would sometimes viciously bite. Draw blood. It wasn't because I'd done anything, and it wasn't an accident. I mean, she looked me square in the eye after, defiant and smug.
I talked to the vet about this, and he suggested that I should bite back. See, this cat had been separated from her mother before she was 4 weeks old (she was a pound kitty), and it's the mother who teaches cats proper behavior. If this cat had been with mommy until 6 or 8 weeks, mommy cat would have grabbed her by the nape of her neck and shaken her, but it didn't happen.
So. The next time she bit me, I bit back. Hard. She cried from the pain. And yes, I had to spit out the fur.
She bit me a few more times after that, and each time, I bit her. And yes, each time, I had fur in my mouth. But that's beside the point.
By the time she reached the 5th or so time, she'd look at me first, to see if she thought she could get away with biting, but pretty quickly, she gave it up, and that was it. Problem solved.
It took persistence and a willingness to be tough on her, but it paid off.
Will something similar work with your cats? I have no idea. But it seems like it's worth it to give behavior modification a try.
posted
Not hard enough to break skin, that's fer damn sure. But hard enough that it caused her a bit of pain. Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Typically. Let me tell you, it makes it that much more challenging to make a good impression in a job interview too.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Some really good ideas everyone. To be honest the cats are really very spoiled have never really been disciplined. I am sure they do consider us part of their "pack" and we have never established dominance. For now we are going to be more diligent about putting them away when people come over and see how it goes.
Posts: 295 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
You know, if all else fails you could always fly quidscribs back to N. America and let her administer her own personal brand of discipline. That would definitely be a visitor they wouldn't bite twice.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
First-generation re-domesticated feral cats are tough. Ones not raised long enough by their mothers are also tough. This is really a hard call, because you obviously love these animals, and the situation with your daughter makes it doubly hard.
I wish you good luck. If you decide on a course of training, please make sure you get some professional advice. "Negative reinforcement" and/or "punishment" may seem called for but this is an area where you can also end up with even worse behavioral problems as a consequence. A pro could help steer you to alternatives that don't make the cats worse. I hope.
My rule with these animals would be: Whenever anyone other than immediate family is coming for a visit, and you know about it in advance, the cats are crated...individually would be better.
If they show signs of being mellow around certain people, you can test letting them out...maybe one at a time at first.
And nobody is let into the house before the cats are either crated (hard to do on an "immediate" basis) or locked into some room where they can't get out (basement? attic?).
If there are little kids visiting, you'd also have to worry about them wanting to seek out the kitties, so you'll have to be even more strict about crating them and locking them out of the reach of little fingers, etc.
By the way, this is one reason why I don't like cats as pets any more. I've had three really great loveable cats as pets, and at least 4 cats who ranged from just plain ornery to downright psychotic. The latter were among re-domesticated feral ones, but so was the nicest cat I ever had. The problem is that you don't know right away and you've bonded with the critter and have all this emotion tied up in getting rid of it if it turns out to be one of the nasty ones.
Worst, of course, are the ones that are great family pets but completely unpredictable with anyone else. I sympathize!!!
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. We were laying on my bed the kitties were being good. Sneaks came up and layed down on me. Then she went to check out my sis. Then back to me. About this time my sister says "wow this is kinda like a scary movie...." and at that point Sneaks attacked. My sister was able to get under the covers quickly but then Sneaks turned on me, and then Willow joins in (I'm not really sure if Willow was attacking me or Sneaks but either way I was the one that got the brunt). I went to the emergency room afraid that I might need stitches (which I didn't, the worst was from the bites on the head which they didn't want to sew up because of risk of infection). Now I must tell you that I am ok.. but had this happened to my 10 year old daughter or had my sister brought her 6 year old daughter or had they got my face instead of my head, arms, and leg if could have REALLY been bad.
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