posted
Warning -- this is a long post, and a lot of it is just so that I can get my feelings sorted through. This is very personal -- I may decide I made a mistake posting here. If so, please forgive me.
I will admit right now that I am in no frame of mind to be making job decisions yet. If I didn't know better, I would march right into my boss's office right now and quit. Luckily, some higher power is looking out for me and we are snowed in today.
Some background:
I came back to work from maternity leave overwhelmed. I no longer knew where I fit in my job and didn't know how to begin again. After the first week back, I found my bearings and jumped in full speed with both feet. I was determined to be a good employee, to do my work even though I was exhausted, to get projects done. I've always been very project oriented. I'll work my butt off to get the project done, plan for the next project and jump back in again. My boss started sharing some more long-term plans with me and so I planned and worked and was darn good at it.
However, the major project I am working on is frustrating. The machine I work with is not made to deal with the samples I am putting through it. It requires a lot of maintenance and watching and effort to run these samples, and while I am doing it, other people can not use the machine. Out of guilt, I pushed as hard as I could to get it done quickly so that other people could use the machine again. A coworker and I finished the set. My boss was ecstatic. He came back to us with another set, telling us that if it was too frustrating to come talk to him, but he'd really like these samples done. We did the samples in record time, finishing that and another project before Christmas. I gave the set to my boss who came back with a third of the samples to be rerun again, ignoring our frustration and seeing only the success.
My job with the state is ending come the end of January. I knew two weeks into being back from maternity leave that full time work was too much for me, but I told myself that it was just four months, I could do it. I could survive. Luckily, things seemed to work out okay. My boss did not get his grant and so full time work would not be available to me. He would hire me back in February as a part time federal employee. I wanted to go part time right away, but while he told me the decision was up to me, he made it clear that he needed someone full time right now.
This is slowly killing me, and this is why I believe that I need to leave this job. I do not know how to stand up for myself. I have a HUGE sense of responsibility that often overrides self preservation. If someone NEEDS something of me, I will try to do it because they asked. That's what I have been doing for the last three months. Doing what has been needed because it needed to be done.
The thing is, I've done it, and I don't mind saying that I've done it well both at home and at work. So much so, that the putting off my exhaustion was working. I even started to take some time for myself this week as I had resolved to do.
However, yesterday I broke. My boss came in after working in the lab all week.
I'll admit it -- I needed some down time this week and it seemed a good week to plan and regroup. I've been volunteered to give a seminar (which I've never done before and don't feel confident in my knowledge of the real science here after two years working here -- namely because I haven't gotten the big picture from my boss, be that my fault or his I'm still trying to decide) and so I worked on that in the office this week. I also planned a work shower for a coworker who is getting married MLK weekend. Since returning from maternity leave, my empty office now contains three extra people. I like these new people. One of my biggest regrets before maternity leave was how alone I was with my work. Being in the office all week, and with the holidays, we chatted and took it easy this week.
The offices are at the back of the lab and my boss was apparently eavesdropping and getting increasingly frustrated at our chattiness. He waited until everyone was out of the office and approached me yesterday to chastise.
I flushed and apologized immediately, explaining that this was a down week for me and that I would work on being less chatty. I came home last night, though, and realized something. Those people are what had kept me going through this last month. I had burned out more than a month ago, but the little social and organizational projects that I had taken on were keeping my sanity.
That stripped from the surface released the flood. What on earth am I doing at this job?! I do not work well with my boss, as stated above. I've tried several different approaches, none of which have formed a good working relationship and it has been steadily deteriorating. However, my dilemma is that I've put my roots down into this job. As that relationship failed, I built many others with the people in my building. I've helped people with computer problems, I've planned parties and social events for the building, I've organized trainings and been on committees.
I like the science work I do. However, I have not been getting the feedback and reinforcement that what I'm doing is actually mattering/producing results. My passive-agressive boss gets on my nerves and makes it difficult for me to have a good working relationship with him. I am tired and frustrated and working full time being a mother (which has a whole other set of emotional issues that I could write another novel about) in the way I want to be is exhausting me. I have no support network here, no relatives and no mentors at work.
Should I stay put, or should I walk?
Posts: 1777 | Registered: Jan 2003
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You're thinking about quitting anyway, right? So you have nothing to lose, right? With that in mind, why not talk to your boss, telling him how you feel and what you need. Not accusing him, just discussing things with him. Remember, you're thinking of quitting anyway, so you have nothing to lose. But perhaps, by talking to him, you may be able to change things for the better.
In the end, your sanity and well-being is most important. Good luck.
posted
Oh, Christy. Funny, I was just thinking this morning that you hardly ever post, and I thought you must be so busy with the baby. It seems that you love what you do. I think you can figure out how to chat and not get caught.(think passing notes in high school-I got really good at that) You don't like your boss, but he has a ton of respect for your work, it seems. I would wait before making a decision. The reason is, I know how it is to have a baby, and to go back to work, thinking you are the same. You are not. You are still a raging hormone trying to survive in a work situation where someone thinks you are robotic. Good luck. Bail if it is hurting your heart.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
I agree with quid. Take some notes with you outlining what you can't live without, what you'd like, and what you'd settle for. Look at it often during the meeting. That way, you'll be less likely to agree to something you can't live with.
posted
You know, it's entirely possible that he just has no idea how burnt out you are by these demanding projects. From his POV, you're a talented, hard worker who never complains. If he's not particularly clued in to the rest of humanity, he might just draw the conclusion that you'll always continue to be a talented, hard worker who never complains. It's to his advantage to keep giving you tough work, because then the tough work gets done, and done fast and well. Little does he know that he's pushed you too far.
Or, he could be an insensitive asshole who doesn't care, who's just using you. But that's not what it sounds like from your description.
Remember Petra in Ender's Game? Ender wasn't a bad guy, he just really needed Petra's talents, and he was in a tough spot. He should have stepped back and thought about the ramifications before she burnt out and had to quit, but he didn't. Maybe if she had sat him down and told him what was happening, he would have realized what he was doing and taken some of the pressure off... but instead she bore it silently until she collapsed.
Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Oh, I agree with you all rationally, and this is not the first time this has happened. It is just more blown out of proportion because of my current life. I've gone in there, said my bit and he's understood and things have gone back to being their normal routine for the next couple of months. Perhaps he's even seen me in a little different light. What bothers me is that this is going to continue as long as I work there. I will always have to deal with a socially inept boss who wants to micromanage me when he sees me and doesn't understand the importance of social connections in the workplace. I will always get the work done he needs and so he will always expect for it to get done despite any of my protestations because I always find a way for it to get done.
I'm sure I will stay there, and hopefully part time will be better, but I am incredibly frustrated.
Bok -- unfortunately, I work in academia and it doesn't quite work in the same way. I do like the HR person, though, so maybe I'll go have a chat with her anyways. *ironic smile*
posted
I'm glad that you'll be going part-time soon. I didn't work outside the home till my youngest was 8 months old (and even then not for long) but boy - it was tough! You have so many incredible demands on you right now and you should be proud of how well you've been managing things.
That said, I don't have any advice. I just wanted to offer support and a hug. It's my gut instinct that things won't change with your boss, since you've talked to him before, but hopefully only working for him part-time will at least make it bearable.
quote:I do not know how to stand up for myself. I have a HUGE sense of responsibility that often overrides self preservation. If someone NEEDS something of me, I will try to do it because they asked. That's what I have been doing for the last three months. Doing what has been needed because it needed to be done.
quote: What bothers me is that this is going to continue as long as I work there. I will always have to deal with a socially inept boss who wants to micromanage me when he sees me and doesn't understand the importance of social connections in the workplace. I will always get the work done he needs and so he will always expect for it to get done despite any of my protestations because I always find a way for it to get done.
There seems to be a bit of a disconnect here... First you blame yourself because you think you're failing to let him know how much this is upsetting you, because you feel a sense of duty to get it done regardless of how it makes you feel. I'm with you there.
Then you say that he's socially inept, and that he'll always push you, despite complaints, because that's how he is and nothing will ever change.
So, which is it? Is he a hopeless case who will continue to abuse your work ethic until you quit, or is there a possibility that he'd come to understand your need for social recharging and downtime if you could find a way to beat it through his thick skull?
posted
(((((Christy))))) I don't know what to suggest, but I empathize with working with someone who makes you nuts with their passive-aggressive behavior.
You'll figure out what to do that's best for you and your family.
And if you ever want to talk about the being-a-mommy aspects, you have my email address. Keep in mind something that was pointed out to me when I had my first: it takes a YEAR to really adjust to having a child (physically and otherwise).
Of course, by the time you've adjusted, the kid has totally changed, so you have to adjust again . . . Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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A lot of what you say really reminds me of the circumstances under which I left my old school (though it's not quite the same). I took family leave after the girls were born to be a SAHD. Contractually, the school had the option to have me not return until the next year, since my family leave was set to end about a month before the end of the shool year. This was phrased in the contract as of benefit to the school, since this was unpaid leave, but I would have preferred them to exercise that option, since that and the summer would have given me three more months uninterrupted time with the girls. Instead, I came back for one month to kids who had had a long term sub for the last three months, and had a lot of feelings, like you said, of exhaustion (my father was also staying with us at the time, as he had had quadruple bypass surgery shortly after we got the girls, and I was sort of taking care of him as well), and of feeling like I didn't fit quite the same way I had before. My relationship with my employers had never been good before this, but it certainly went south faster after. I think the problems in my relationship with my bosses were caused by different issues than the ones you describe, but I do understand working for jerks while trying to be a relatively new parent, and being exhausted and frustrating.
I don't know that I have any advice for you. I ultimately left that job and have been happy about it ever since. Like you, I was working somewhere where I was taken advantage of, and viewed as someone who did not have to be given much in exchange for hard work. I got lucky, and have been working ever since somewhere where they really appreciate me. But each situation is different, so I don't know if it applies to you.
So, instead, all I can offer are my virtual hugs and sympathy, and tell you how flattered I feel that you chanced sharing this with Hatrack. (Even if you decide to delete it later.)
I do not think my boss is a jerk, although I think it was poor of him to approach me the way he did. There are so many more constructive ways to keep productivity high and I believe he was stewing over this all week and being grumpy because of some other issues with things he is doing in the lab and wasn't so much concerned about productivity -- as I have said, all my major projects were done in record time.
He is passive-agressive, not only in dealings with me, but with others as well and it has caused him problems in the past. I also believe he had some troubles with a grad/PhD student in the past who complained that he expected too much and ended up leaving. He was forthright with that in my interview and first days working there. He is willing to talk about these things and for that I admire him a lot.
However, where I get frustrated is that he is not very able to make changes after these issues are discussed and uses his faults as a scapegoat -- apologizing for them while criticizing me even though he has no intention of changing his ways and making me feel guilty and responsible. Some of this may be his due, as a supervisor, but it makes for a very difficult working relationship.
I feel like I've made considerable effort to find something that works, but have not succeeded, especially recently. A lot may be my own fragile emotional state right now reading into disappointments despite my efforts that are not there.
Icky, I think Hatrack is a great sounding board and it has really helped me just to have these ideas out there so that I can examine them myself as well as through your eyes. I only mentioned the deleting because I really do have a lot of emotional issues right now and couldn't quite tell if I was emotionally ready for advice or not.
Posts: 1777 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
To a lot of people, "chatty" = "unproductive". Sounds like this is your boss. And it sounds like prior opportunities for him to learn that it is an arbitrary and irrational judgement have not been successful.
Is it sexist to say that women often give more to their jobs than men? If so, it is probably true only insofar as women get less back from the job. I know men give their heart and soul to the job, and they are glorified by all the world for it. When a woman gives her heart and soul to a job, she is either feared or criticized for having her priorities messed up. Well, maybe both are feared but the man likes the fear whereas the woman just feels unliked.
I don't know, but I'm glad you to today off to restock.
Posts: 666 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
You need to ask yourself if the problems you have will be any better somewhere else. This jumped out at me:
quote:This is slowly killing me, and this is why I believe that I need to leave this job. I do not know how to stand up for myself. I have a HUGE sense of responsibility that often overrides self preservation. If someone NEEDS something of me, I will try to do it because they asked.
This is not a problem with your job. This is a problem with you, and how you deal with expectations, and that will follow you to your new job and you'll have the same problems all over again, because when people accept responsibility and do a good job, they get asked to do it again. That's going to happen no matter where you go.
I say, work on this issue - get it handled, learn how to be assertive and say "no, I just can't do that, sorry." Learn how to temper your sense of responsibility into something that allows a more reasonable balance between your work ethic and what you need as a person, wife and mother. If you don't straighten this stuff out, you'll be in for a long life of job-hopping trying to find the "perfect" job, when all along the problem isn't the job, but you.
(this sounds a bit harsh - please accept it in the sense that it's offered. I'm not trying to make you sound like a bad person, on the contrary you sound like a wonderful employee that anyone would be thrilled to have work for them. I just think too often people think their circumstances are the problem, and wind up not dealing with the real problems. Good luck!)
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Christy, could your boss actually find someone full-time for a month? Would he still rehire you part-time in February if he could? Would he fire you if you went to part-time now and he couldn't find a full-time person? Do you have any prospects for other part-time work?
That said, the next time your boss criticizes you for "chattiness" remind him that you get your projects done in record time, that you have discussed the importance of down-time and socialization.
Of course, you could always take the low road and become passive aggressive right back.
[Edit: remember, it's his problem, not yours. You just need to feel secure in your work and yourself. You have a terrific work ethic, right? Do you have any reason to be ashamed of the work you do? Can what he says about you really affect your own perception of the job you do? If not, tell him politely that while you understand his complaints, you disagree with him and that you've had this discussion before. Personally, the words "what part of this conversation did you not understand the last time we had it" would probably come out of my mouth, but that's because I'm lippy.]
posted
Christy, working with academics is always a challenge (socializing with them is, too). Most of them do not have great social skills and that translates into ineffective or poor management. Andrew has had some very frustrating experiences.
I would recommend writing to your boss. Many academics deal better with the written word than face to face contact. Clearly, without emotion, outline your problems and propose some solutions. Plus, it's always a good idea to have something in writing when it comes to an employment situation.
Kayla -- sadly, no. It's taken since July to get me switched in the first place. Switching systems has been very complicated and the state HR person is less than helpful. Actually, I am betting that I'm going to have an unpaid period in the middle because the systems are so screwy.
I don't have any prospects for part time work that would pay anything, which is Tom's objection. He thinks that I should start looking for other employment and quit when I find something. I've said I was going to do that for several months, though, and have been too weary to put in the effort.
Belle is right, I do need to work on being assertive and knowing when to say no and what my limits are.
I'll try to work on either an email or a conversation outline for tomorrow. Thanks guys!
*loves Sara, too* *shakes fist in front of face* Grrr!
Posts: 1777 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Gosh, I'm not sure how I feel about the written letter thing. It seems to me that things like that are the sort of things that get twisted and come back to haunt a person later.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
But with a letter at least you know what you said. Whether they understand it is their problem. Maybe there are some research articles about the benefits of socializing for productivity. Probably check some journal having to do with Organizational psychology or Organizational behavior. If your boss is truly passive agressive and socially inept and a typical academic bureaucrat, peer reviewed articles might make an impression on him. Then again, he probably thinks soft sciences are, well, soft.
Posts: 666 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
I would be careful of the letter as well. (might be that public school thing, Icky-into the file and whatnot)
Christy, The thing that worries me most about all this is your health. Be careful of burning the candle at both ends. Being a new mom is tough on the body.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Christy, you sound so unhappy and burnt out.
How "in demand" are your job skills? Can you just quit and hope to find PT work in a reasonable time?
Posts: 1021 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I decided to talk to the federal HR person on Friday morning and she and I had a great talk. She said that she deals with many issues of this type in the building and agreed that it is not uncommon in academia and added that it has been especially problematic in our building with the current expansion and limelight. She suggested that I get this resolved as soon as possible, however, because of my impending switch to the federal system. She cautioned that I should be sure I was comfortable before signing on a contract that would leave both John and I unhappy. She also said that she would pull him aside and discuss expectations with him because of the current position switch and would put in a good word for me and try to counsel him at that time.
I went into the lab and began to work since I suspected some of the tension as well came from the fact that I hadn't been doing any visible work over the past week. My boss, again, was working in the lab. He began testing the waters as soon as he walked in the door. It was almost comical. We spent about twenty minutes in silence working around each other and all the sudden he asked me how much snow we had gotten. I gave a brief reply and continued about my work to find a few minutes later he asked me another "chatty" sort of question. I had to smile to myself. He was trying to make some ground at least. I asked to meet with him later in the afternoon to discuss some concerns and he agreed. I went back into the office to continue my work on a presentation.
We met in the afternoon and most of the emotion of the morning had dissapated. I was able to express my concerns, fears and stresses to him, although not as clearly or with as much force as I would have written, but I still think in a comprehensiblee manner. The only thing I am a bit displeased about is that I did kow tow still a bit more than I would have liked or would have in a written confrontation. I was immensely pleased with the result however, and he genuinely seemed to take my concerns with open ears and made notes and said that he would try to meet with me more often and be more inclusive about the work he was doing and the whys and wherefores. We talked about owning our work and what made the job fulfilling, we talked about the stresses of balancing work and family, and even just reconnecting with him made me feel a lot better because he does respect my work.
The very odd thing is that he asked in the beginning if I would mind if since we were discussing goals and work related issues if this could also turn into my job interview since he had gotten the applications. Luckily, I was a bit prepared for this since I had spoken to the HR person in the morning. *laugh* But, honestly, it did sort of fit seamlessly into our discussions until he asked me "what accomplishments do you think you've made in the past two years" and then we both had to laugh at the "formality."
The best part, the part that has me really excited, though, is that he showed me the salary ranges that he was looking at and the lowest would give me a $3000 raise and if I choose not to take health insurance (which I most likely won't and will be added to Tom's since his is a better plan than the Feds -- go figure they have pretty terrible health plans), it would be a $6000 raise over my current yearly salary. Now, I will be working part time, so that salary will be pro rated, but basically I will move to part time with no loss in salary. This was a TREMENDOUS relief and I was ecstatic. You have to remember that he could not afford to make me a full time offer because of not getting a grant he was counting on. Also, I have never had a raise during the course of my career. I have worked for the state and the budget has been so awful that they've cut raises every year.
Anyway, I know this is long and rambly again, but I know there are still some issues of burnout and emotional fragility left, and I am not entirely confident that even though my boss has taken notes to try to provide for my needs, he is actually going to have the time and effort to implement them. I do think he will try, though, and we'll just have to see if that is good enough combined with a day off each week. In turn, I am going to try to manage my workload more evenly and take time for myself as I can. (Of course, since we were in at Tom's office most of this morning, we're off to a bad foot on that regard)
Thanks for the listening ear, all.
Posts: 1777 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Glad that the talk with him went so well! Is the interview just a formality? Are you certain to be getting the job? If so, congratulations! If not, good luck!
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Hey -- that is great news, Christy! Sounds like things are going much better for you!
Although I'm still not sure I even know exactly what you do. You'll have to remind me sometime -- like when I see you at the Scopatz wedding or something.
posted
She sticks her arm up to the elbow in holes someone has made in a cow's stomach, scoops out what's inside, cooks it, and then types things into Excel spreadsheets. That's the impression I get so far.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I can send Excel spreadsheets with stuff already typed into them, if that will help reduce the workload. Then you would only have to cook the cow innards! I have some grades from 1997 that would do nicely . . .
(Come to think of it, I have a couple of steaks in the fridge as well . . . )
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Ooh, fistulated cows! We have a few wandering the fields near the vet school. I've always declined offers to go check them out. Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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It's my gut instinct that things won't change with your boss, since you've talked to him before, but hopefully only working for him part-time will at least make it bearable.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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((Zeugma))
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Well done!
