posted
Crappy Martial Art Book- related rant follows, but I do actually need help from the Wordsmiths of Hatrack)
*screams*
So, they changed something in the text. Changed "The Tenets of [The Martial Art]" to "The Creeds of [The Martial Art]." The 'creeds' are as follows:
Honesty Courtesy Integrity, etc.
The list may qualify as a 'creed' I suppose, but the items of the list do not. I tried explaining this to the Britiot.(I know that's unkind, but the guy is an idiot. AND he keeps implying that because he was educated in England his writing is merely too complicated for the average beer-swilling American. That's why they hired me, you know. Just dumbing-down his work for Americans. Crap, crap, crap. The guy puts colons in places where you don't even need a comma... but I digress.)
Anyway, the Britiot believes I was telling him that Americans never pluralize the word (because, I think, that is what the book designer told him. This was when I was doing a light pass of the 'nearly completed' text. *bangs head*
So, I shrugged it off, mentally washed my hands of it'and told him I circled every instance of the word, with notes in the margin, and made arrangemenst to drop it off at headquarters (we were on the phone). As an aside, I mentioned that if he wanted to use the singular form of the word, he'd need to re-write most of the sentences to ensure subject/verb agreement.
He said, "What do you mean?"
Me: You know, when the subject of a sentence is plural, the verb also is plural. Or, you know, a singular subject also should have a corresponding verb.
I don't think he understood me, but he indicated our conversation was over.
I can see it now:
"The Creed of [the martial art] are as follows..."
I pray they don't put my name on that crap. Let them say it was 'edited by Alan Smithee'- I don't care! I just don't want the blame.
If they won't listen to me, then what the heck are they paying me for?
BTW, does anybody here subscribe to the OED? If so would you be willing to email me a reference? The ones I have found regarding the usage of "creed" are all American, and I would dearly love to smash the idiot with verifiable evidence that it isn't just some aberation brought on by the Colonial's descent into savagery.
I'm being petty. I know it. I also know that I am not ignorant. As painful as it might be for this guy to entertain the idea that some middle-aged American housewife just might know something he doesn't about the English Language...
*fumes*
I can't even continue. I've made myself angry just thinking about that condescending... *covers mouth* Posts: 1664 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
1. A form of words setting forth authoritatively and concisely the general belief of the Christian Church, or those articles of belief which are regarded as essential; a brief summary of Christian doctrine: usually and properly applied to the three statements of belief known as the Apostles', Nicene, and Athanasian Creeds. (the Creed, without qualification, usually = the Apostles' Creed.)
a1000 in Thorpe O.E. Hom. II. 596 Se læssa creda. Ibid. 274 Ælc cristen man sceal æfter rihte cunnan his credan. c1200 Trin. Coll. Hom. 25 e salm e me clepe crede. a1225 Ancr. R. 20 us do..ie Crede et tis word ‘natus ex Maria uirgine’. c1394 P. Pl. Crede 8 Y can noht my Crede. c1440 J. CAPGRAVE Life St. Kath. Prol. 167 is athanasius..ef it wer he at made e psalme qwech we clepe e crede. 1483 CAXTON Cato Cij, The thre credes the whyche our moder holy chirche singeth. 1533 GAU Richt Vay To Rdr. (1888) 5 Thay suld leir the chrissine faith as it is contenit in the creid. 1664 H. MORE Myst. Iniq. 495 The Scripture asserting no such thing..nor any of the Three Creeds. 1782 PRIESTLEY Corrupt. Chr. II. VIII. 117 It had been the custom to repeat the creed. 1891 GARDINER Hist. Gt. Civ. War III. 256 Atheism or blasphemy contrary to the doctrine of the three Creeds.
b. A repetition of the creed, as an act of devotion.
1425 Ord. Whittington's Alms-house in Entick London (1766) IV. 354, xv Pater Nosters, and thre credes. 1808 SCOTT Marm. I. xxvi, Before his beads Have marked ten aves and two creeds.
c. More generally: A formula of religious belief; a confession of faith, esp. one held as authoritative and binding upon the members of a communion.
1676 MARVELL Gen. Councils Wks. 1875 IV. 124 That we should believe ever the more for a Creed, it cannot be expected. 1833 Declar. of Faith, &c. in Congregational Year-Bk., Disallowing the utility of creeds and articles of religion as a bond of union. 1845 S. AUSTIN Ranke's Hist. Ref. III. 269 The Wittenberg reformers took, as basis of their creed, the Schwabach articles. 1884 R. W. DALE Manual Congreg. Princ. IV. iii. 186 Nor is it consistent with Congregational principles for a particular church to draw up a Creed and to require its acceptance by candidates for membership.
2. An accepted or professed system of religious belief; the faith of a community or an individual, esp. as expressed or capable of expression in a definite formula.
[1563 N. WINET tr. Vincentius Lirinensis Ded. Wks. 1890 II. 8 We and al wtheris professing our commoun crede.] 1573 TUSSER Husb. (1878) 194 This is my stedfast Creede, my faith, and all my trust. 1742 YOUNG Nt. Th. iv. 705 Nature is Christian..And bids dead matter aid us in our creed. 1857 KINGSLEY Lett. (1878) I. 257 Every man is better and worse than his creed. 1860 WHITTIER Quaker Alumni xxxii, The creed may be wrong, but the life may be true. 1874 GREEN Short Hist. v. 229.
b. transf. A system of belief in general; a set of opinions on any subject, e.g. politics or science.
1613 SHAKES. Hen. VIII, II. ii. 51, I loue him not, nor feare him, there's my Creede. 1654 WHITLOCK Zootomia 72 If the Sex cannot, much lesse can Conception be discerned, though it be part of the peoples Creed it may. 1733 LADY BOLINGBROKE in Swift's Lett. (1766) II. 175 As to your creed in politics, I will heartily..subscribe to it. 1770 Junius Lett. xli. 210 A declaration of your political creed. 1800 Med. Jrnl. III. 378 His favourite chemical creed. 1870 EMERSON Soc. & Solit., Old Age Wks. (Bohn) III. 132 The cynical creed..of the market.
c. Belief, faith (in reference to a single fact). rare.
1819 BYRON Juan I. cvi, Her creed in her own innocence. 1838 H. G. KNIGHT Normans in Sicily 340 note, It was the creed of the Greek..Church, that St. Catherine was a king's daughter.
1736 CHANDLER Hist. Persec. 108 A kind of Creed-maker general. 1782 COWPER Hope 393 ‘Whatever some creed-makers mean By Athanasian nonsense, or Nicene.’ 1856 WHITTIER Trinitas xiii, Old pages, where (God give them rest!) The poor creed-mongers dreamed and guessed. 1879 GEO. ELIOT Theo. Such xiii. 332 A shade of Creed-reciting belief. 1880 Fraser's Mag. Nov. 703 The Creed-making power in any creative sense is lost to the Church.
posted
Here's tenet: A doctrine, dogma, principle, or opinion, in religion, philosophy, politics, or the like, held by a school, sect, party, or person.
b. More trivially: Any opinion held.
From what I can see, Creed and Tenet have slightly different meanings. Both have religious Conotations, but creed's is far stronger. However, the word creed is almost always meant as a system of belief. It is certainly more correct to say "The Creed of [the martial arts]" as opposed to the Creeds. As far as I know, a creed would be written more like this, "We of the martial arts believe in honesty, dignity..." as opposed to just listing a group of adjectives. In that situation, the word tenets would be more appropriate, since it's meaning conotes singular parts of a larger group. However, if they just can't stand the word tenets, then replacing with values, standards, or principles would seem more apropriate. Here's a funny note I just found out. Your friend used a thesaurus to replace tenets with creed(At least, that's one of the word's MS Word's thesaurus comes back with, and it's singular even if tenet is made plural). So yeah. Give him all that and tell him to start understanding words instead of using a thesaurus (Maybe that will wipe away the smug British attitude).
[ November 29, 2004, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: Boris ]
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Oh, and unless he studied English in England (If he's a Japanese - English translator, I'd imagine he studied more of the former), he really doesn't have much room to talk. And if you really want to tick him off (Which I would), ask him to listen to some Birtish English speakers who live about 50 miles from each other. He'll discover that, more often than not, any pair of speakers he chooses will speak much differently. Then tell him to do the same thing in the US, except with about 500 miles between the speakers. He'll discover more fluctuation in England than in the US. The basic fact is that American English is more standardized than British English. I guess it wouldn't do anything, but it would probably show him that he's got a little more prejudice than is justifiable. Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
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It almost makes me want to go to England and see what the reaction is to the "uneducated North American."
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Tenet? I played that game, but lost, and did great bodilly harm to myself when I tripped jumping over the net.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:The ones I have found regarding the usage of "creed" are all American, and I would dearly love to smash the idiot with verifiable evidence that it isn't just some aberation brought on by the Colonial's descent into savagery.
[Official Grammar Communist] Speaking of subject-verb agreement, how about number-apostrophe agreement? Plainly, more than one colonial has descended into savagery; therefore, the savagery belongs to all of them, thus : "The colonials' savagery". I'm not convinced you want to capitalise the word, either. (And just to nitpick a little more, aberration has two 'r's.) Not a case for Siberia, but a spot of self-criticism is certainly indicated. [/Official Grammar Communist]
[Kind and gentle self] You have my most deepfelt sympathy, which is of course worth its weight in gold. Dealing with people who cannot spell is extremely frustrating, isn't it? All the more so when working on a book. [/Kind and gentle self]
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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It's actually very similar throughout the world. The US is one of the few countries that has a language that is spoken almost the same way (with a few patches of unintelligible accenting) around the whole country.
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
King of Men- One of the things I enjoy (or used to enjoy) about coming here was the simple fact that I could relax a bit and let fly, without worrying so much about the nitpicky shite I have to deal with every day.
Thank you for being pissy, you great, oozing boil on the @ss of an already horrible day.
Also, his spelling is fine. I never said it wasn't. I have to change from UK to US standards, which is fine. I have never been a great speller, a fact of which I am actually quite proud, since perfect spellers tend to be the kind of anal-retentive bores people avoid at parties.
I treat Hatrack as more of a place for conversation, and tend to edit my posts very little. I don't have the time to waste on attempting to be perfect. I like the immediacy of just letting my fingers go to it and letting it stand (especially after having to work at this sort of thing).
I should have known better than to come back here, and you have just made it clear to me that this isn't really a place I want to hang out anymore.
Posts: 1664 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
The guy isn't a translator. I don't think he ever went to Uni. He's just writing down what the Korean tells him to write down. I actually think it is the Korean who is insisting he use the word.
Posts: 1664 | Registered: Apr 2004
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However, when I first read it I thought the reference to "Colonial" was a reference to Olivet herself, as indicated by the captital letter, so 's would be appropriate.
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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I'm sorry you're having such a massively nasty day - although I hate to admit, I'm kinda curious about the book now.
As to the reaction to Americans - it wasn't particularly bad that I noticed, except for the usual static for tourists rambling about things they have no business rambling about.
Of course, it could be that not many people are prepared to be negative to my face.
However, I have heard Brits grumbling about how often their accents are mistaken for something else and our appalling lack of geographical knowledge.
quote: I should have known better than to come back here, and you have just made it clear to me that this isn't really a place I want to hang out anymore.
Um... Boohoo?
How about taking the joke for a joke? Or if you can't do that, how about acting like an adult and ignoring it?
Posts: 3564 | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
How about resisting the temptation to add fuel to the fire? Especially after the conversation has moved on?
Posts: 5422 | Registered: Dec 2001
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Something weird is going on with jebus - he's been quite nasty the last few times I've seen him.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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But I couldn't stand the childishness of Olivetta making such a big deal over one comment, and talking about how this clearly isn't the place for her, when every other post in the thread was supporting her.
It looked like a little girl crying about how not everything was going her way, so she was going to go home.
And then people rushing to beg her not to leave.
Bah, whatever. I guess you're right, it was silly of me to say anything.
posted
Well, it's been more than one comment - there was at least another thread on such things recently. Posts: 5422 | Registered: Dec 2001
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The tag [Official Grammar Communist] was intended to indicate humour. The tag [Kind and gentle self] was intended to convey my sympathy. I am sometimes forced to do things in my official and public capacity that I deplore as a private person.
[Official Grammar Communist] What! You set yourself up to judge over the Party? Siberia for you, Comrade! [/Official Grammar Communist]
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I agree. It was childish of me. All I can say in my defense is that I have not been entirely myself since my mother died. I mean, I'm okay, but I tend to get upset about things that really aren't upsetting. I believe my sister would call it "displacement."
I'm not really mad at anybody. I'd be lying if I said this has been a fun place for me lately, but you guys know that already.
Thanks Kwea, and all you other nice people who have been kind to me even though I didn't deserve it. I'm glad you liked the title, and zgator, you may use the insult with my blessing. I worded it so that it would be obvious that my reaction had more to do with my frame of mind at that moment than with KoM, and I hope he took it that way.
Go easy on jebus - of the two of us, he has the better excuse for being childish.
Here's hoping we're square and that's the end of it.
Posts: 1664 | Registered: Apr 2004
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