posted
What do you think of this? Coaches get paid a lot and get a lot of credit when things go right; they enjoy the limelight at those moments. Things like this seem to be the flip side of that picture. Is it fair game? Does the good outweigh the bad? This can be viewed from two sides. From Ron Zook's side, one may or may not argue that because of his high pay and profile, he is not entitled to sympathy. What about from the perspective of the "fans" responsible for the site? Regardless of whether the coach is fair game or not, is it moral as a human being to actively work toward another person's termination? Is it moral to exult in your eventual success (or, if you don't think they played even a small part in this, to exult in the granting of your wish?)
Ron Zook never had a chance. Like other people who have followed legends, he was set up to be crucified from the beginning. In an atmosphere where teams do have to reload from time to time, he has kept his team on the winning side, and led them to bowl games (which they have lost). On the downside, there was an argument with some frat students when Zook was supposed to act as peacemaker, and evidence of him losing his compusure on the sideline. Perhaps he didn't do a good enough job. Then again, he didn't have this team long enough to make it his own. He's still playing with many players selected by another coach for another system. I think his tenure was cut short by Steve Spurrier's departure from the Redskins, and yes, I believe he will ultimately return to Florida, after they make an "appearances" effort at finding somebody else.
None of the above was relevant to the original question, but maybe it provides a bit of my perspective on the issue. If it is okay to seek the end of a coach's career, where is the line of acceptability? Is it moral to work for the firing of a teacher you personally don't find likeable or effective? A supervisor? A colleague?
I must admit, I'm a bit uncomfortable with the nastiness I perceive in this, and my opinion of Gator fans involved in this isn't real good.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Zook was not the coach for Florida. He never should have been hired. As for not having a chance...zook has already lost 7 home games in his 18 games as coach. Spurrier lost 5 home games in his 12 years as coach. Giving him more of a chance would only give him the chance to loose more games. Winning more games than you loose is not enough at a big school like florida, not with the talented players that he had. Getting to (and loosing) bowl games is also not enough. A coach needs to get to (preferably win) in BCS bowl games. By not getting into the top bowls, he was costing the University millions every year.
As for wanting him fired, I see nothing wrong with it. His comments and his actions have shown that he did not belong at Florida. He is content with loosing...frequently trying to sugar coat losses, and explain why it was not that bad. This is not a way to endear yourself to students. A coach also should not go out to a frat house and start swearing at students.
posted
See, the thing that many Florida fans I know seem to gloss over is that when Zook arrived, there was no talent at Florida. Even Spurrier admitted that he 'left the cupboard bare.' As Icarus said, Zook never ever had a chance - because he's not Spurrier. How many games did Zook coach before fireronzook.com went up? Not many.
My former roommate was supportive of Zook (until Saturday). He was willing to give him another year until Zook's highly touted recruits got experience with the game and the system. However, I think the main reason why he supported Zook was because there weren't really any viable candidates to replace him. Even now it could just get worse for Florida (look at Nebraska). And there's no guarantee that Spurrier even wants to go back.
Personally, I don't have a problem with someone wanting a coach fired. In most cases, the coach has a fairly cushy contract with buyout clauses, so they can continue living quite well until they find a new job. However, I do think that fireronzook.com toes the line if not crosses it. I think because it's sole existence is for the purpose of getting someone fired (what's going to happen after the season?).
Posts: 959 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Let's face it UF was overrated from the beginning and was never that great of a team even under Spurrier. Sure they were fun to watch, but look at what Miami has done and even FSU has twice as many titles. What's worse is that Ron Zook made a bad team into a worse team. They lost to Mississippi St. for crying out loud! The only chance UF has to resurrect their season is to beat FSU in Tallahassee and to win the rest of their games including their bowl game. Its not even as if the SEC is all that tough this year, LSU the defending national champions have already lost two and beat Troy by just four points. The Gators are bad and they always will be.
Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Don't worry less than four weeks away you'll get to see proof of UF's badness when they get beat by the 'Noles. Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
When all is said and done, though, kaioshin will have a degree from the Univerisity of Florida and you, nfl, will be an assistant manager at McD's. Unless you manage to get into FSU's highly rated clown college.
I didn't like the fact that the site appeared a few games into Zook's first season. He should have been given a chance at least. Especially considering that Spurrier hadn't been doing much recruiting before he left. But I don't really have a problem with fans wanting to get rid of coach they think is bringing his team down.
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Of course, the argument can be made that coaching should be a part-time, unpaid position, and that coaches should draw the majority of their salary from teaching courses as part of a college curriculum.
And that anything else is bread and circuses.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
All I know is, Florida had better not try to steal Urban Meyer from Utah, like several of the national sportswriters have been predicting. Posts: 1652 | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote: Florida fans I know seem to gloss over is that when Zook arrived, there was no talent at Florida.
When Spurrier left Zook had Rex Grossman, who is now an NFL quarterback, Berlin, and Martin at quarterback. Berlin left right away for Miami, and Martin later left...but it was Zook's responsibility to keep them there...not Spurrier's. The receiving core was not as amazing as some year's...but they should have been enough for Zook to do something with them. Sure Grossman had a crappy year...but a lot of that blame goes on Zook. When a quarterback who is talked about as a heisman candidate in the previous year looks like a high school quarterback when the new system is put into place...the new system is clearly partly to blame. The team was a lot better than the team that Spurrier took over, and he turned things around a lot faster than Zook.
Since then, zook has brought it amazing recruiting classes, and then done nothing with them. He has 2 great backs, a quarterback with a lot of talent, and has done nothing with them. LSU had twice our total offence in that loss. The offence did better last week (though they were playing Mississippi state) but this time the defense bombed.
Other than his poor hiring choices, his biggest problem is lack of discipline. He can't keep the players in line. Sure they all love him, because he wants to be their friend, not their coach. The thing with the frat house is just the thing the national media finally picked up on. The local media has been on Zook for not disciplining his players since he got here.
I just hope that Foley does a good job in choosing the next coach. If not, he will run the risk of loosing his job as well. Gator fans would love to see Spurrier come back, but if that is not possible, Stoops would be a great choice as well...if they can pull him away from OU.
Posts: 1901 | Registered: May 2004
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quote:Of course, the argument can be made that coaching should be a part-time, unpaid position, and that coaches should draw the majority of their salary from teaching courses as part of a college curriculum.
That would be true if their salaries were paid out of state taxes. Zook's salary is paid by the University Athletic Association, which is funded by alumni donations, ticket sales, etc. I believe a small portion of tuition goes toward it. Is that true Lupus?
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
BTW, the new UF president came from Utah. He is good friends with Meyer. Their wives are also good friends.
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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"That would be true if their salaries were paid out of state taxes."
Doesn't matter. The university still provides the athletic program, the facilities, etc. And, moreover, a freestanding athletic salary like the one you describe should be unaffiliated with a university; it should simply be part of a bush league NFL, as it provides no legitimate collegial value.
posted
To completely ignore the conversation up to this point (mainly because I have no interest in the morality of fireronzook.com, and I rather liked zook) Florida will lose to South Carolina when we come down there in a few weeks!
(This has been my obligatory South Carolina is awesome comment. We now return you to your previously scheduled thread)
posted
Tom, the Florida facilities are paid for by the University Athletic Association, a private organization, not the university. The stadium is called Ben Hill Griffin Stadium because he paid for a lot of it.
quote:it should simply be part of a bush league NFL, as it provides no legitimate collegial value.
posted
as mentioned previously...while the university does help pay for some of the sports at UF...it does not pay anything for football. The football program actually makes a profit that helps pay for some of the smaller sports at UF...and unlike some schools, the state did not build the stadium, it was paid for by private donations.
A lot of the money the football program makes, is not through ticket sales...but donations from the gator boosters. Keeping a high level of donations depends on winning. People are not going to may 50,000 a year to sit in a sky box if the team is loosing at home. So, the program pays the coaches a lot of money to win games. If the coach does not win games, then he is gone.
posted
"That pretty much sums up college football."
Seems odd to call it college football, really. Why not call it the "minor leagues," and get rid of any foolish association with the college to which it was once tied?
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Well, heck, why have any college sports at all? Since there are upper-levels (many of which are money-making) for darn near every sport offered in college, why bother having any sort of collegiate athletics at all?
Because the big ones make money for the university and they all offer ways for students to receive help funding an education.
Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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posted
Well, somebody brought up the paying of coaches out of private corporations. That's been in the news here, because the UCF football corporation has claimed that they are immune from Sunshine laws because they are a private corporation. I'm pretty uncomfortable with that, because the tie to a public institution is pretty clear. The only purpose behind this private corporation seems to be to skirt public money laws and sunshine laws. No other group within a university could get away with this, I don't think.
When it's done this way, we no longer know what fraction of the money is getting put back into the university and what fraction goes into salaries, "expenses," and so forth.
posted
The biggest hypocrisy of all is that this moneymaking system is built on the backs of players who receive nothing for it. You can argue that they get a degree, but many don't, and many of those degrees are worthless because universities bend rules to get those degrees for their players. So what? Isn't the player still benefitting from that piece of paper? No, because employers won't take it seriously, without other evidence of a job candidate's qualification. So what? They're going to be rich when they make the pros. Most of these people will never make the pros, and even if they do, the fact that we overpay them later does not balance the moral ledger for building a lucrative system on their bodies and efforts without remunerating them for it earlier.
Minor league baseball and basketball players at least get paid some money.
posted
Actually Brock Berlin had decided to go to the U before the final season Spurrier was coaching had actually ended. There was nothing Zook could have done personally.
And you Gators are really jealous of our circus for some reason.
Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
He had the choice between Grossman and Berlin. Berlin went because he was not starting, he could have told Berlin he would start which would have sent Grossman to the NFL and would have kept Berlin at florida. Either way, he had the choice of either one of two talented quarterbacks
Posts: 1901 | Registered: May 2004
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posted
Apparently you haven't covered the word "jealous" on your vocabulary tests at FSU. Maybe that's in your 2nd year. Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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