posted
SO, I think the divorce is pretty inevitable. She's looking for an apartment and has done some pretty stupid stuff lately. Se left the kids home alone a couple of times and didn't come home a few night last week. One night I know she stayed at a guys house because I went and knocked on the door in the morning. So anyways how do you move on? I know there are a number of divorcees out there. What did you do to keep yourself and your mind occupied. This is quite dificult for me. I still love her to death and I hate every moment that I can't be with her. (there have been a lot of moments since christmas) But I'm ready to move on and try to be happy again. I keep telling her I don't want her to go but if she's going to to please get on with it.
Another very strange thing has happened. I've noticed other women for the first time in like 6 years. This is very weird because no other woman has existed for me other than my wife for a long time. So what about that? What the heck do I do about that? I know There's no need to rush into anything like that, at least not until the ink has dried on the papers, but then what? Do I actually have to start showering and shaving and stuff again and look all nice and pretty? What the heck, I never even did the dating scene when I was single. (Maybe you guys could just introduce me to a friend of yours with low self-esteem and low morals that doesn't mind a shorter man that is slightly balding, a bit soft around the middle and an extremely selfish lover.) Man this is a strange thing I have to go threw. So help, what's some good advice for not going insane?
I have already taken a few steps. I am going to finish my basement this summer, spend a lot of time with my kids, visit as many friends as possible, I'm having roadrunner installed friday and I just bought and x-box live member ship. I figure this is a good start.
Any ways thanks and wish me luck. I'm actually looking forward to the end of all this. I just hope my wife can me mature enough to not be a couple turd when it comes time to split up our stuff and take care of the kids.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I'm sorry. I've been through a divorce and I know how hard this time is. I think you're already starting out in the right direction by planning things to keep you busy. Spending time with your kids will be great because they're going to need that. I don't know how old they are, but no matter the age, divorce is tough for kiddos.
I think now can be a time to concentrate on you. It seems that when we're married we have to give up parts of ourselves because being married is so much hard work. Take time for hobbies you haven't had time for previously, and as silly as it sounds, you might also try journaling. This is a good way to get your negative thoughts and feelings out and leave room for more positive ones to come in. And remember, trite but true, take it one day at a time.
posted
beatnix...I'm sorry you have to go through this. I can say, however, that there's hope for much better at the other side.
For example:
- you could find a woman who appreciates you for who you are.
- you might find someone who is as committed as you are.
- your children will have a chance to grow up in a more healthy environment with either one parent (and no fighting) or two parents who love, respect and cherish each other.
Re: Dating...Give yourself a year before you even start. You are toxic right now. It can't be helped, honestly. I didn't believe it at first, but it is very true that the immediate post-divorce period is no time to be starting new relationships.
These days, you don't really want to do the "typical" thing and try having a bunch of sexual conquests either. Diseases, you know... Plus you have to live it all down later. If you seriously think you might want a committed relationship with a woman again in the future, you have to consider what turning into a "sex machine" will do to your reputation as well as your prospects for the future. It's just as bad now as it would've been in your younger days -- at least with respect to trying to respect yourself and the women you are "bedding."
Anyway, I think you should've started this months ago, but I understand wanting to give it another shot. And not wanting to be the one that finally calls it quits. But this is beyond unhealthy for you and the kids. So...end it. Get on with your life. Alone for awhile. Then, when you are ready, just let your friends know that you are finally thinking of dating.
In the meantime, you could try to spruce up a bit. Grooming is a good idea. But lots of women aren't looking for Adonis, just someone who will love them completely and faithfully. You seem to have that in spades. Many women find those qualities incredibly sexy.
Or so I'm told. I haven't really tested it. (I mean, how would one test such a notion as "loyalty & commitment are sexy?" You find one woman and then you're committed, right???)
Humor too. Retain your sense of humor and a positive outlook. You seem to have no real problems there. Just don't substitute insensitivity for humor, okay? And PLEASE don't harp on your harpy. She was rotten to you. But if you dwell on it, talk about it to prospective dating partners/mates, you'll become a bore (and a boor). Just have hope and live it. In other words, don't let the divorce define you.
And give yourself that time to know yourself again.
First time through it took me about a year.
Second time was about the same duration, but the grieving started while the marriage was still going on because we'd made the decision and just had to wait a bit for the divorce... But still I wasn't ready to even think about dating for a good long time.
And I'll just end with a reminder that this is an opportunity to make your life 1000% better than it was. You just have to think things through and find someone who loves you the right way.
posted
Bob - thanks for the advice. The balding selfish love line was my sad little attempt at a joke. I just find it interesting that the entire realm of womaness has opened up again. I'm not all that interested in getting invoved with it quite yet, just amazed at the factthat eventually I'll have to face it.
Tom - I stopped only for a while. I thought the Grizzly Admas look might come back.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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As a female divorcee, I guess I was somewhat fortunate in that when my husband left us, I could just totally focus my life on my kids for awhile. That will be harder for you to do if they end up living with her instead of you.
But most of the time, I was just so busy trying to make a living, pay the bills and keep up with the kids, there was no time for moping around or self-pity or depresssion.
It's been 13 years now for me.
One thing I have noticed with all my divorced and/or widowed friends. Most men find "someone new" fairly quickly. I mean, like within a year they have a new "woman". Women seem to go the opposite -- swear off all men for a period of time, sometimes years. I don't know if this means men are more "needy" of a relationship or what.
And I hate to generalize like that here, because I know I will get flamed for it. But I was only speaking from personal observation.
posted
I think you explained your observation in the first part of your post. Women generally get the kids and that fills the void for them. Men have to go somewhere else to find companionship and that place tends to be another woman.
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
beatnix, I'm sorry you're going through this. I don't have anything to add to Bob's excellent advice, but would like to know how old your kids are. If your wife is leaving young children alone (under 11) all night long, that is neglect and should be actionable for taking custody. You should attempt to take custody if your children are in danger being with their mother. You may love her still, but the best interests of the kids come first, especially when safety is involved.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
bit of advice...don't date until the divorce is officially final. I have know people that had a drawn out separation, and dated before the paperwork was through for the divorce...and it hurt them in the divorce proceedings.
Also, even if she is a nut...and even if she messes around other guys, don't say anything bad about her to the kids. Divorce can be tough on kids...OR it can turn out to be the best option for the kids. It all depends on how the parents deal with the divorce. Hearing the other parent being badmouthed...even if it is deserved can have bad effects on the kids, as they feel like they have to pick sides.
As for moving on...never been through a divorce...and my research on divorce focuses on the children, and their long term outcomes...not the parents, so I don't know a lot on that. I know from personal experience with normal breakups, time helps, as do friends, alcohol is bad, as is being alone. I'd imagine it would be similar with divorce.
Much good advice has already been given. Divorce, while a terrible thing, CAN have some benefits. Learning who you are again -- as an individual, not part of a larger whole -- can be one of them. Consider this a time of personal growth. And remember that change, and growth, are painful.
As a friend of mine put it: the year (or however long it is) of separation is hard; the following year (of grieving, change, adjustment, and often legal battles) can be harder at times -- but should gradually improve; the year after that should improve bit by bit.
I have found (at just about 2 years after separation became definitely divorcing) this to be true.
The most important thing, I think, is to give yourself time and space to grieve. Not just for the loss of your wife -- and getting over a spouse who has stopped loving you is damn hard -- but for the loss of your dreams of your life with her. I think part of giving yourself time and space is NOT dating until your divorce is final. You need to heal first.
Best luck, and feel free to drop me a line if you want to talk.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Loyalty and commitment are attractive, and the fact that you tried so hard to make your marriage work speaks well of you. That is another reason, though, not to consider dating until your divorce is final. A woman who takes commitment seriously is not going to be impressed by a guy who approaches her while still legally married to someone else. Take your time and get yourself both legally and emotionally clear of your marriage before you start a new relationship.
And most importantly, take good care of yourself and your kids.
posted
(((beatnix))) no personal experience being divorced, and I've repressed all the emotions of my parents' divorce. But it kind of happened slowly from when I was 14 - 21. (from first separation to the ink being dry). I'd recommend you seek resolution quickly and be aggressive in getting custody of your children.
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posted
beatnix, I can't give advice on how to recover from a divorce, but I can speak from the perspective of a child of divorce.
Depending on their age, I think it is virtually impossible for a child of divorce not to think that the divorce is their fault. They will think it...and you have to be consistent and loving and constantly remind them it's not their fault. Don't just say "You know this wasn't your fault, right?" And drop it when they say "yeah, I know that."
It sounds as though your children may be recovering not just from divorce but from abandonment as well. Your wife's behavior sounds like she is just wanting to walk away from the responsibility of child rearing. Abandonment by a parent is a wound that never heals. Your children will really need you. Please consider outside help too, sometime a person outside the family is the best one to help kids talk things through. Find a therapist with experience with children.
posted
Oh! A book recommendation. This was recommended to me, and is a GREAT book. Dinosaurs Divorce (showing up down the page) is a good book to read with kids.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I've never been through a divorce, strictly speaking, but having had a series of failed multiyear nest-building monogamous relationships, I think Bob has the best singular advice in not letting it define you. I'm not sure how that is accomplished. I think having projects with discernable produce is key. But, distraction isn't enough. Time, as a lot of people have pointed out seems to be the most important thing. Getting to know yourself, in the absence of your parner, isn't without its merits and difficulties. Good company is very important. Building new friendships and revitalizing old ones can bring a great deal of fulfillment.
I hope things work out in the best way possible and that if you find any good solutions to share that you will do.
quote: Re: Dating...Give yourself a year before you even start. You are toxic right now. It can't be helped, honestly. I didn't believe it at first, but it is very true that the immediate post-divorce period is no time to be starting new relationships
I'm going through a similar situation. I filed for divorce last week myself. It's hard. Definitely.
How do you do it -- find something that you truly love and do it every day. Even if only for a minute, take that time for yourself and give yourself that bright spot.
As to the dating scene. . . only you can determine when you are ready for that. Don't put artificial time limits on it of a year or whatever. The only thing I would say on that is to agree that you shouldn't start until the divorce is final. That's what I plan on doing myself, because it seems the right thing to me.
So -- take care of yourself and your kids, do something you enjoy each day -- and survive. It will pass. you wil come through it.
quote:1. When things get really bad, I tell myself, almost like a mantra, This moment will pass, this moment will pass, and I try to remember a particularly bad day that was quickly followed by a better one. I've found time to be greatly distorted in this whole tortuous process, and when I'm in the middle of a bad moment, it just feels like it spreads out into the past and future coloring everything. I need to consciously remind myself that this bad moment had a beginning, and will have an end.
2. Pick your battles, pick your battles, pick your battles. Conflict is exhausting, especially, I think for us nons, who often avoid it at all costs. There are some battles that are necessary to fight. Try your hardest to avoid those that are not. Your stbx will try to engage you in all sorts of conflict. Take control over your choices and don't let her callk the shots on what you will and won't fight about. Take advantage of one of the sweetest things about being separated, which is the opportunity to shrug your shoulders, say "Whatever", and leave her spinning in her own anger and chaos.
3. A hard one for me: be disciplined about doing one really pleasurable thing every day, no matter how small. I sometimes need help with this one. I've recently come to realize that this task might work best on a "buddy system" with someone in similar straits - maybe you should set yourself a goal of coming back and reporting to us in a separate thread that yu add to every day which feel-good thing you did for yourself that day. I know it helps me to have a sense of "accountability" for this.
posted
Thanks for all the advice. I definately have no plans on dating anytime soon. Two women only means twice the problems right now. Right now it's the kids I worry about. Jennifer has definately flaked out on us lately but she is still the mom and unfortunately that usually means the kids go with her in a divorce. So I worry about that, but I plan on fighting to make sure they are safe and hopefully with me full time. I have no problem sharing custody and time but I hope that they can call my house home.
msquared - um... I know I've been lonely and deperate but I'm not sure if I'm interested in what you're offering. I mean we've met and your a nice looking guy, I guess, but that really just isn't my thing. Besides I think it would upset your wife and then I'd have two ruined marriages to deal with.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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I actually have addressed this in prior threads and with dkw (and my mom too). The thing is, I do believe that having divorced & gotten back together with the same woman, I'd already sort of gone through the major shock & grief the first time through (years ago). But it's also true that this second time the grieving process started in earnest long before the divorce was final. So, it was at least a year from start to finish, but it started a few months before the divorce and ended a few months after the divorce.
But the bottom line is that the one year thing is just sort of a guideline. I think it's a good approximation to the point at which one feels like the fog & funk have lifted. I personally did not feel like I would be good company for awhile after the first divorce. After the second, it seemed less so. I was not nearly as deeply toxic nor toxic for as long the second time through.
I believe one gets better at divorce with practice.
But...really the idea of dating dkw is not like casual dating or being on the prowl, either. When you meet with such a perfect match, what do you do?
And, be sure, we discussed it thoroughly too. I wouldn't want to screw this up by acting too soon. She's a pretty amazing judge of these things, twitterpated though we both may be.
So...yes, I follow my own advice.
One more thing. I don't think that was snarky at all. If I were upset by your question, I think that would be a pretty good indication that I wasn't quite ready. It's a good question that a responsible, caring adult would ask and want to be sure things were being done openly and with proper concern for all involved, I think.
posted
You know, I agree with bob. I don't think there is any particular time frame but one definately needs to have time to themselves to regroup and collect their emotions. A relationship right now would be an absolute disaster for me. I have been so deprived of emotion and effection that I would probably smother anyone who got near me right now.
Also, I joke about the easy girl with no self esteem becasue it makes me laugh. I've never been a womanizer and very seriously doubt I could ever be one. Intimate relations are not something I have ever taken lightly. So now would be a bad time to start. I would also fear for the safety of anyone who ventured into that arena with me. I've been a very lonely man for a very long time (me trying to break down the intimate barriors of my wife) and I very well might hurt someone.
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posted
For me personally, Marriage is not something to be taken lightly. I take my vows very seriously. This is the reason I have not changed the locks at my house yet. Jennifer has given me so many reasons to leave, or kick her out, or hire a hitman but I never would, until recently consider any of them(and the hitman is still not a option). Marriage is a choice, you choise to be together and that's it. Unfortunately my wife doesn't see it that way. She comes from a divorced family and her mother, who left her father for another man, has advised her to just get it over with. (thanks for that great help)
I just think it is the changed morals and views of the people. It's become socially acceptable to divorce and move on. It's sad but true. But of course I now see divorce as a end to my suffering so even my views have changed. three weeks ago I still would have refused to consider, now I have a lawyer and am helping Jennifer find a place to move to. Go figure.
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posted
Me also beat. Up until mid-April I swore up and down that I would never ever ever file for divorce. And yet I'm the one who filed it last week.
As you say, it is an end to my suffering. I've dealt with her issues for 7 years, not even realizing just how bad it was. Really, it hurt when she moved out 6 months ago, but I now see it as her doing me a favor -- it let me see just how bad everything was, how abusive, manipulative, controlling, and generally unpleasant. And I accepted that as "normal" and took joy and comfort in my association with it. Scary bad, eh?
Your wife sounds like she is doing many of the things mine has done (and is doing -- she had that guy over for the night this last weekend again), and from what I remember of previous threads I have to ask -- Is she seeing a therapist? Are you? Even if she won't, it's not a bad idea for you to see one, and it should help give you postive things to think about, ways of coping and dealing with all of this.
Best wishes to you and yours, Beatnix. Just keep plugging away.
Posts: 1323 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
I currently am not actively helping. She only just strated looking. But I have been encouraging her to speed it up and when she does start applying for leases I most definately will be going with her as my kids will have to spend time where ever she goes.
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posted
I'm glad you found that site, Magson. I used to go there a lot. (I'm VeritasLiberat on the Nauvoo board, by the way.)
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posted
Well then. . you were the one who sent me there in the 1st place VL. And thanks. I've just finished Stop Walking on Eggshells and wow was that an eye-opener. Thanks for ehlping with that.
Posts: 1323 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
beatnix, it sounds like you are thinking through things very carefully, making sure to take care of yourself, too. That's awesome.
quote:Sorry, but sometimes the way other women treat their men is appalling, they don't understand that they come home from work and they are tired but still don't complain.
*grin And then there are other arrangements ...
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Personally, CT, if my man doesn't immediately start cooking me a fine 7-course dinner as soon as he comes home from work, I lock him in the closet for the rest of the night. After all, keeping track of who loves who-all on the soaps every day wears me out!!
Oh, wait.... that's right, we both work. And we're equal partners in household chores. Forgot about that.
posted
Steve does the cooking in our house. It's much safer that way. We know the house will still be standing when he's finished.
When I called a friend to tell her that my mother burned down my parents garage, she went "So that's who you get it from."
Uh yeah. Not the point of this thread. But Beatnix and Magson hang in there. Kids can be well adjusted from a divided family, as long as you are there for them. My Steve is the far more well adjusted of the two of us, and I'm the one from the supposed "nuclear family"
beatnix, I knew you were joking way back above. I've seen you post things that showed me that you are a loyal and caring guy. Sure, we're only hearing your side of the story, but so much of what you said rang true to me that I'm willing accept it as given that you are a stand-up guy who really tried hard to fix problems, and not cast stones.
This is a very vulnerable time in your life. And if you go into it realizing that you have the potential to seriously hurt someone without wanting to or even trying -- just by accepting an offer of a relationship you aren't ready for -- then you are also aware enough to avoid that painful event. I think you have a good heart and will do the right thing.
And from what you've said before, you probably don't need another woman with low self-esteem. All joking aside.
When you are ready, look for a real partner and when you find her, it won't feel like smothering, it'll be mutual absorption.
(Listen to me...instant expert...HA! Well, I just know the difference now. Never did before.)
And people from "broken families" don't necessarily end up with a degraded sense of commitment or morals. Think about what it would say about your own kids if you really did believe that and lived as if it were true. No...it's more a question of what they understand about relationships. And as the adults in the situation, you and your wife (soon to be ex, as well as any future spouse) are going to be the examples they learn from the most. So...with the ex, you have to be respectful and recognize that she is the children's mother, regardless of how she treated you. Especially if she has custody or visitation, you need to be careful what you say about her and how you portray the breakup. With any new spouse, that relationship could be a wonderful counterpoint to the failure of this first marriage. If you choose wisely and find a woman who shares your same values and goals. Then your kids would get to see an example of what they should seek in their lives the first time around.
Okay, so, what else.
I honestly thought the old "he comes home tired...blah, blah, blah..." thing went out in the 1950's. I know that there's been a sort of backlash against "women's lib" among some conservative groups, but honestly, who in their right minds wants anything other than an equal partnership. If the role (busy working father, mom staying at home) is the definition of your marital relationship, I think there's a problem. A serious problem.
I'm not saying that's what was said, but I was really sort of shocked to see it expressed here in any form.
Whatever roles people take in their lives together (whether both work or one partner stays at home, or whatever), the defining attributes of the relationship should, I think, be based on mutual respect, working toward common agreed-upon goals, and sharing everything that can possibly be shared.
I don't think this is anti-traditional, by the way. I think it's the way ALL successful marriages have been for all time. It's the silly 1950's TV view of marriage that warped people's perceptions of things, I think. So today we have people trying to assert that women should be submissive, passive, whatever and that anything other than that makes her an "Amazon" or a "feminazi." Ludicrous. Show me a man who actually WANTS a passive wife, and I show you a man with very serious issues, insecurities, and a vast potential for abuse and neglect. By the way, I think ANYONE (male or female) who desires a dominant role in a marital relationship is going to be causing problems down the road. If it isn't a partnership of mutually agreed-upon structure and also with sufficient flexibility built in, I think there's trouble.
I also think Dr. Laura is a charlatain of the worst stripe, by the way. I would no more bother to read a book of hers than I would seek advice from a divorced man on how to have a great marriage.
Anyway, just my $.02.
beatnix...sorry to derail your thread.
By the way, ending pain and suffering is not sufficient reason for divorce. Beatnix, you could've achieved that months ago. You too Magson. You both know that you gave it more time and effort despite the added pain and suffering. The divorce is coming now because there is no healthy option. Divorce under the circumstances is better for everyone involved and not in any kind of casual sense.
Or am I missing the point of your posts over the past year or so?
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
There's so much more to it than simply ending pain and suffering. I've been posting on my issue over on nauvoo since shortly after my wife left. I copied only my posts out of it th other day to give to my lawyer, since it's a journal of sorts with references to her behavior on cates and could possilby be useful in custody hearings later. 59 single spaced pages in Word -- and that's just what I wrote, not any of the replies. I also have voluminous e-mail correspndence with trusted friends that includes even more details of what she and i have both done (or not done) over the past 7 months too, and this is all just commentary -- so yes, I 've done quite a bit more than just wanting to end the pain and suffering of it all. I continue to provide financial support, I continue to call my kids every day, and I have visited several times (and am going again this weekend for my son's birhtday -- back late Sunday night), plus tried to keep in contact by calling her, sending her letters, e-mails, cards. . . all to no avail. If anything she is more distant now than ever. Plus, her behavior over the past 6 months has gone downhill fast. . she's had 2 affairs now, in addition to the rest of it all. It's simply intolerable. I still love her, absolutely -- and I can forgive her all of this, but her behavior must return to tolerability, or we cannot remain married. Adn she shows no sign of the merest glimmer of a desire for us to be together anymore - and so, I have chosen to end it.
Yikes. . sorry about no paragraphs in that rambling mess.
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(I mean, how would one test such a notion as "loyalty & commitment are sexy?" You find one woman and then you're committed, right???) ![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
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Besides I think it would upset your wife and then I'd have two ruined marriages to deal with.
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(me trying to break down the intimate barriors of my wife) and I very well might hurt someone.
