posted
Ok, so things have been real bad lately. My marriage is a mess and I know it. I also know I have been a pretty rotten husband. I have been inattentive, unsupportive and cruel in times were my wife has needed compassion, love and support.
But I want to be a better man, husband, and father. I've started reading a book by Gary Smalley called If Only He Knew: Understanding your Wife. It has been very insightful and I have also called a counselor to talk with.
but the problem is I'm worried that my wife is seeing someone else. She has started a new job that keeps her out untill 12:30-1:00 in the morning. And there is a man there she has been calling and talking to on a regular basis from our cell phone. the calls stopped around the fifth when I discovered them and she tells me he was just an ear to listen and a friend. But the calls all were late at night and correspond with evening when she has not come home when expected and told me she was just out driving around, untill 2:00 Am!! Also a condom when missing from our side table when I was out of town for a couple of days. She has repeatedly lied about when she leaves work and where she has been, spending many nights out past 2:00 am.
Plus the biggest thing is she just has distanced herself from me so much and actually recoills from being around me. She doesn't want to talk she doesn't want to go out. Every opportunity she gets she leaves the house. I understand some of this to an extend. She is manic depressive and has had times where she just kind of needs space and time. She swears to me this is the case that she spends the nights out wondering the streets or parked in lots thinking aboutr us and how awful things are. I've repeatedly told her that she is not building my confidence in her and she needs to stay home and be with her family but she refuses. She says she's agreed to counceling and thats as far as she can meet me right now.
What would you think? I want to trust her but i find it harder and harder. I'm actually considering hiring a P.I. to investigate a little further. Am I crazy or do I have an argument? I don't know I'm just looking for some thought I guess because I'm a complete mess right now.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
No job keeps anyone until 1 in the morning. Nor do they usually require condoms. Though there's a chance she's not cheating on you, it's pretty unimportant -- the point is that she's unhappy with the marriage. It may or may not be you, but if you want to keep her, you'll have to make the first move by the sound of it.
Hiring an investigator won't do anything to salvage your marriage. If you think she's cheating, confront her on it directly.
That's my rushed $.02. I'll try to be a bit more coherent and helpful when I get back from work.
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote: I'm actually considering hiring a P.I. to investigate a little further.
That will just make things worse.
My sister's ex (before they split) was so controlling that he checked HER cell phone constantly -- numbers called in and numbers called out; he checked the mileage on her car every day that she came home from work. He broke into her e-mail account, etc. Basically, she couldn't breathe without him counting the breaths.
This is a sign of a very very controlling, obsessing husband. That will drive a woman away faster than quick.
She never cheated on him, never. But he was convinced in his mind that she was. He IS a P.I., and would follow her around.
They went through two years of counseling but eventually split. But she wasn't unfaithful. She has, however, totally lost her faith in all men, basically.
Now, I'm not saying your wife is or is not cheating. But I'm saying that your "checking up" on her constantly is NOT going to make it any better.
If she's been spending hours 'thinking' about your relationship, she's probably not thinking it's going to work. I don't think that your wife is so far gone that she can't be brought back in.
The man that she talks to: If she spends her time talking to a friend, it should be another woman. Not a man. Period. It is totally inappropriate for another man to step in and play consoler. If you had a woman friend (regardless if you're married) and that woman friend was having trouble with a significant other, I don't think you would step in.
As I read your post I can't help but see this as a bad thing. However, I think I would be right in asserting that you only know part of her story. She may be justified in what she is doing, as long as it doesn't involve infidelity. Try to find out what her whole story is.
I think that you persuing counseling is the best thing to do right now. Don't go into it thinking she is the only perpetrator, you won't find much out that way. Go into it taking half the blame.
Keep your cool! Don't get to hot under the collar. A PI would only aggrivate the situation right now. I think you should give the counseling a try.
Counselling is important. Get it. Hopefully get it with a good counselor.
I do not mean couseling for your wifes bipolar condition, I mean couples counseling.
Is your wife cheating on you?
I do not know.
I do know that it is a frustrating, agonizing fear that can destroy the trust that any relationship is supposed to be built on.
The question is, what do you want to do.
Do you want to stay married to this woman? If so, win her back. Don't requestion and grill her of her where abouts. It doesn't matter if you are losing her to another man or to her illness or to your own insensitivities. Win her back. Show her attention, buy her flowers, show that you care about her happiness.
If you truly love her, then you can fogive her as you hope she will fogive your mentioned bad ways.
If you are looking to break away from this high maintenance woman, then do so. Don't waste money on PI. Just file for divorce and get it over with. Your suspicions and proof should be enough to break it off.
Don't hate her. Either she isn't worth it, or you are not that petty. Hate will only lead to tragedy and pain.
Don't assume she is doing this to hurt you and try to hurt her back. This leads down a very destructive path that will hurt others, like your children, friends, and family far worse than it will hurt her.
Don't use violence. That is how children end up dead.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote: The man that she talks to: If she spends her time talking to a friend, it should be another woman. Not a man. Period. It is totally inappropriate for another man to step in and play consoler.
I personally feel this is a person by person judgement. Many of my best friends are guys (I'm a computer science major) and I don't know that it is ever inappropriate for me to go talk to my guy friends for a shoulder to cry on. And yes, I realize there are differences such as 1) I have known them for a long time before any relationship I might have and 2) I am not married so maybe I don't understand
As far as the original post I think that acknowledging the problem is at least a good first step.
Posts: 872 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Thanks, i agree that I pobably am flipping out a bit much but it's been hard not to. I have confronted her about the guy and she tells me nothing ever happened. But she has lied and been caught in the lie so often that it is hard to take her word at face value.
I do want her back. I am trying desperately to be a better man. I'm not really a bad guy I just got lazy and frustrated dealing with a high maintenence wife. I'm a very passive man so violence would never come into the picture. In fact I have made the initiative with all of this. I admitted to her that I am to blame for much of the problems were having and I truely agree that is the case.
The big problem for me is she is being very selfish and childish. Her favorite phrase right now is, "I'm an adult and I can do what i want!" unfortunately we have two small children who constantly complain about mommy not beeing home anymore. And that we need to have a nice dinner like a real family. We have tried very hard not to argue informt of the girls but the notice when she is never home. And I notice how much it has started effecting them.
She comes from a divorced family and it still to this day effects her. She has never really accepted the situation. her mother left her father for another man and so I can't imagine that she would do the same but again circumsatnces are very unusaully around her right now. this whole thing with the guy she works with has kind of died down but it is always in the back of my mind. Like two nights ago she had to run and pick up tampons at 10:00. well she got home at about 1:30 am and didn't have anything with her. In fact she has yet to start her period. She didn't have much of an explaination for where she was and situations like this force the other guy into my mind.
But the couples theropy is in the works and I've decided to spend a couple of nights with my grandparents to give her some time away from my constant hounding. So I'm just hoping and praying for the best. Thanks
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
(((beatnix))) I don't have any advice better than what's already been given, but I wanted you to know that I'm here with everyone else hoping that you can be happy. Hang in there.
Posts: 6415 | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
I agree about the friends, and this kills me because my best friend is a guy, but discussing your relationship with someone of the opposite is highly innapropriate and will sabotage your relationship.
Yes, initiate counseling. This is important. It's very good that you said what you did. Keep going, you've got a job in front of you.
Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
So, what do you people who are against discussing relationships with people of the opposite sex think about it if the person is seeing a counselor of the opposite sex?
quote: So, what do you people who are against discussing relationships with people of the opposite sex think about it if the person is seeing a counselor of the opposite sex?
that's knid of funny because when trying to find a couselor I really wanted a woman to ease any apprehension on my wifes part but was only able to find an opening with a man. Not sure if it really makes a difference other than what you're comfortable with. In my mind proffesionalism is all that really matters.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Good luck, b. It is clear that you want things to be better, and I hope you guys manage it. However, that will depend largely on whether your wife wants things to get better, too (wants it enough to work at it, I mean).
I agree with sn about the 'guy friend' thing. A married person should be able to talk to their partner about what 's on their mind, and what bothers them. Obviously, you guys are not there at this point. But sharing feelings can be a powerful force in a relationship, especially when someone is really hurting. It's like seeing how long you can hold a firecracker before it blows your fingers off. It's just an all-around BAD IDEA.
That doesn't mean she's being unfaithful, but sharing feelings can make the guy with the wet shoulder very attractive, especially since it's a component of your relationship that is broken at this point.
I wish you the best, and I hope she's as willing to work on your marriage as you are.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Taking the kids to see their grandparents for the weekend is an excellent idea. It allows you the time to be outside of the home and gives you a chance to think in an environment that is different, yet friendly and safe. You also have the benefit of being able to talk it over with your parents, people who do care about you first and foremost, but also have an eye on your children. That's something that a friend or co-worker would not be able to offer you.
An extended stay out of the house removes the home aspect as well. She won't be there and you won't see as many reminders around you. It will allow you to think more clearly. It will also give her some time to think and she will be faced with an empty house, on her own.
I would suggest, however, that you go ahead and make private plans for yourself and your daughters to stay for at least two days more than the weekend. Go ahead and make arrangements with their teachers and your school to get the time off. Don't tell your wife about it ahead of time, though. Wait until the day you are supposed to come back home and instead call and explain you've decided to take a couple of extra days to think about your situation. Do say at that time you've made the necessary arrangements and you'll be back home on X date and X time. Then do make sure you are back by then.
During this time, think seriously about what you want and need, for yourself and your children. Create your best case scenario, you and your children deserve it. And you deserve the chance to look at it rationally and realisticly.
In the meantime, she will have her two days she has planned on you being gone. Then she has two suprise days. How she handles those two extra days may very well force her into making her decision about what she wants. The extra two days of an empty house will compound that.
If she wants to fly, then she'll work that direction. If she wants you and the family more, then you can expect her to go through some soul searching. Within a week of coming home, I would imagine you'll know what she decided if not by her words then her actions. If nothing has changed, then I wouldn't expect anything to change.
I believe in the sanctity of marriage and have gone through the divorces of my parents and a grandparent. There are always multiple victims and both parties usually share some crux of the blame. It is a painful and wrenching process that does affect everyone involved's life, but sometimes, sadly, it is the only thing left to do. But it should never be taken lightly.
You say her parents' divorce still affects her to this day. Well, she's an adult and it is time for her to make the life she has into hers, not some shambles left behind by an incident she had no control over. Perhaps that is what makes her high maintenance, perhaps not. But the fact is, both parties in a marriage need maintenance, regular maintenance to be healthy. It doesn't sound like you've been getting your share, but you come out sounding like the bad guy. That's not always fair.
I'm sorry, advice is always the worst present to give someone. But do keep your happiness and your children's happiness, today and future, in mind. If your situation doesn't change from what it is, four lives will be ground down to broken shells of what they could have been. If it changes, it could be for the better. But change in the relationship, either to strengthen it or break it, is seeming to be a necessity.
Be willing to say what you need from that marriage and be willing to work toward it.
Posts: 2848 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Wait until the day you are supposed to come back home and instead call and explain you've decided to take a couple of extra days to think about your situation. Do say at that time you've made the necessary arrangements and you'll be back home on X date and X time. Then do make sure you are back by then.
During this time, think seriously about what you want and need, for yourself and your children. Create your best case scenario, you and your children deserve it. And you deserve the chance to look at it rationally and realisticly.
In the meantime, she will have her two days she has planned on you being gone. Then she has two suprise days. How she handles those two extra days may very well force her into making her decision about what she wants.
I do not agree with this at all.
Don't play games. Jerking her around like that just invites the same, and she'd be justified for it. I like the current open/honest/counseling plan. Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I agree with Javert. I think that a leaving a situation like that would only open more doors that you would rather keep shut. If you need to leave it should be agreed upon, from the time you leave to the time you come back.
Posts: 1660 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Sometimes we all need a jerk or yank to get ourselves to thinking straight.
One way or another, she is caught up in her own little world, a world that is shutting out her husband and children. She needs something to jar her back into thinking about it.
If she has got something going on the back burner, she'll have already made plans to exploit it during the weekend he is gone. Then her plans would be to resume life as it has been going. Pitching a switch up leaves her with two unplanned for days, hopefully prodding her to think about her family during them.
If she doesn't get pulled out of her current attitude, even just a bit, all of the counseling in the world wont do her any good. Right now she's apparently not considering the impact of her actions or the real-life implications of them. Giving her a couple of days more than she bargained for might just jar her enough to get her thinking about what is important.
From what Beat has said, I'd imagine if she went to counselling right now, it would mostly flow in one ear and out the other. She'd do her time in the office, never open up, never shoulder her share. Why? Because I don't believe she feels she has anything on the table that she's afraid of losing.
Most importantly, it gives Beat more time to do his own thinking. And that's what it is all about, right? The ball isn't entirely in her court, it's a two person marriage. Four days is not too long of a time to work on deciding your own life direction.
posted
No. He doesn't need to be a jerk, manipulate, and play games. He doesn't need to jerk her around to make her see the light, but to be the person someone would want to be with forever. Being manipulative is not going to do it.
Being honest, open and above-board is NOT the method of last resort after the games have failed to work. It's the first and only.
[ January 13, 2004, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: Javert Hugo ]
Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Actually I'm going to my grandparents house for a few days on my own. She doesn't work again until thursday and I figure atleast two days would be a good start. It is only about three blocks away but they live on a private lake and have a guest house on the water so i can still come and go and not really disturb anyone. Her problem isn't the kids, its me so I figure I can remove myself and let her and the kids have some alone time.
I actually left on new years eve and went to my parents house with the girls in Indianapolis. We stayed until Saturday and it really didn't solve much. Plus I found out, through her admission, that she had gone out for drinks with the man in question after work on the 1st. So I'm not really enthusiastic about leaving her home alone again right now. I understand needing a sholder to cry on and she swears that was all it was but I agree that in this situation it should not be a single man I have never met, and she has only known for two months. In fact I stopped speaking with my best friend from college who happens to be a female because of how uncomfortable it made her. And this is someone I had known for two years prior to meeting my wife. I guess I just want the same consideration from her.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I agree with kat (Javert). This is no time to be screwing around with head games. You have no way of assuming that she will use the "extra days" to "think about her family". That's ridiculous.
b, why not take the kids? Are you leaving them with her as a sort of buffer against her doing anything suspicious, or do you honestly think they're better off staying with her for the weekend?
Posts: 2220 | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Just a random thought, but why don't you take her to the lake with you and leave the kids with someone else? Pretend your far away on vacation, throw aside the cell phones and PDAs, connect with her for the few days.
Posts: 1660 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
dkw- a counselor of the opposite sex can get busted out of practice for moving in on them. That's why.
Beat- "And that we need to have a nice dinner like a real family." As a wife I can't describe the frustration of cooking day in and out for folks who take it completely for granted, and who have no concept of how much time it takes to put together even the most lame meal. So if you want nice dinners, I suggest you take a major initiative.
Your wife is working, right? I'm not sure what your other circumstances are, but she's probably not too motivated to do all the other wifey stuff if she feels like she's having to support herself financially. I haven't gotten a job, even though we are pretty much on the ropes, because I know that I would start to see my husband as a burden. (witness we don't have health insurance but we have DSL). But I'm just speaking from my experience.
If she's bipolar, the winter may be making it worse. Not to say you should wait it out, do get counseling.
If you got a PI and had more conclusive proof of adultery, what would that mean to you? Would you still want to save the relationship? If there is adultery and you never find out are you okay with that? It may be she meets with this guy and he is slowly working toward that but it hasn't happened yet.
Finally, you could go to see a counselor on your own as the ultimate sign that you will do whatever it takes.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Because my in laws have offered to take them for the weekend to let us have some alone time and my wife's response was, "great you can go to columbus to see your friends and I can hang out with Amanda(a friend of hers in town). Of course I told her that is not really the idea and that I would like to spend some time alone with her she just replied tha she really didn't want to spend any time with me.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote: "And that we need to have a nice dinner like a real family." As a wife I can't describe the frustration of cooking day in and out for folks who take it completely for granted, and who have no concept of how much time it takes to put together even the most lame meal. So if you want nice dinners, I suggest you take a major initiative.
Actually I do most of the cooking. We just want her to show up and eat.
quote: Your wife is working, right? I'm not sure what your other circumstances are, but she's probably not too motivated to do all the other wifey stuff if she feels like she's having to support herself financially. I haven't gotten a job, even though we are pretty much on the ropes, because I know that I would start to see my husband as a burden. (witness we don't have health insurance but we have DSL). But I'm just speaking from my experience.
Ive actually asked her to quit. To look for something not as demanding in time away from home. We need a little extra money but not much. We could probably survive without it. But she says she likes her job.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote: So, what do you people who are against discussing relationships with people of the opposite sex think about it if the person is seeing a counselor of the opposite sex?
I really think this depends so much on the person. I was very close to my dad growing up, and I had a very bad relationship with my mom, so even though I'm a woman, I find talking with a male counselor to be much easier for me. I don't have the level of trust with a female counselor that I do with a male.
heck it's been about a month since I've done much more than lerk. i think these are my first opsts in quit some time. Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I'm glad to hear it, beat. I'll probably trim my post considerably Edit: Ah, it doesn't matter. We're pretty happy right now, but I can remember how I've felt in the past.
posted
Decide for yourself what behavior of your wife's has to stop for your marriage to work, and then approach your wife and in as nice a way as possible, tell her that either this behavior stops or I go.
It sounds a lot like your wife is cheating on you. It's one thing to be unhappy in a marriage, but work on making it better, and another thing to abandon it altogether, which is what cheating does.
You can't make the marriage work by yourself. If your wife will not work with you, then the marriage cannot work.
The only way you can determine when your wife is working with you is to establish what your bottom line is. Establish what cannot happen in your marriage, get the same from your wife, and then go from there.
If your wife crosses the line you have told her you have, then leave. It's better to be free of someone so you can start learning how to be happy on your own than be miserable with them until they decide to get their crap together.
I know this is a very direct suggestion that ignores all the ins and outs of a marriage, but you asked, and this is the best advice that I have.
I hope everything works out and I'm terribly sorry to hear that you're having such a tough time.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:The man that she talks to: If she spends her time talking to a friend, it should be another woman. Not a man. Period. It is totally inappropriate for another man to step in and play consoler.
I find this very weird. A friend is a friend. If I'm looking for advice and care, I don't care whether I get it from a man or a woman. And if they are attracted to me, and cannot control themselves in that situation, are they really a friend? I don't think so. Besides, what if she was bisexual? Would she not be allowed to have any friends?
Posts: 5700 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Kama, it's hard to explain, but I do believe it.
My best friend from high school married my favorite guy friend, and I'm telling you, it totally sucked, because he and I'd fall into one of the intense conversations, and his wife would flounce from the room, and then it would get weird, and I eventually gave up.
Actually, now that I think about it, the last time it happened there was an awkward pause, and we mutually decided that we couldn't be the same kind of friends anymore. All very proper.
[ January 13, 2004, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: Javert Hugo ]
Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Truth is, it's not so much the relationship between the wife and the 'outsider' that I'm worried about. I'm talking about the relationship between the husband and wife being torn apart by the simple threat of having another man step into the husbands place. I have friends here at work that are female, I ask them all the time about the inner-workings of the female brain so I can better understand my wife. However a married person should never take a relationship with a member of the opposite sex beyond professional. I'll add in "...arms length relationship..." for those of you that know where I'm coming from.
posted
You people are being totally foolish. The issue isn't that she can't have guy friends. The issue is that her husband thinks that she's crossed the line with this guy and he's asking her to stop seeing him because of it. This is totally fair and right and proper. I don't believe beatnix has ever indicated that his wife can't have friends. Jebus.
Personally, I also believe that she shouldn't be discussing her PRIVATE marriage details with someone who isn't her husband, unless it is a marriage counselor, no matter what sex they are.
And, yes, I also happen to think that hanging out with an unattached guy after work, when your marriage is in trouble and on the rocks, is irresponsible and foolish.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:However a married person should never take a relationship with a member of the opposite sex beyond professional
I can understand Kat's point. But this, I cannot understand. To loose half (maybe less, or let it even be one or two) of my friends just because I'm married?
My best friend has a fiance. we don't talk much, cause he's in another country, but I consider him one of my very good friends, someone I can always count on. My girlfriend has no issues whatsoever with leaving him and me alone together. She has complete trust in him , and in myself, and I couldn't even think of doing anything inappropriate. He's shown his concern about me multiple times. Why should he not be allowed to?
Posts: 5700 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
I think SS is spot-on. Marriage has to be a partnership. If each person knows what the other spouse's limits are then it is a clear message when they violate those limits (unless of course unreasonable limits are set).
Here is a general plan I would follow if I were in beatnix place: 1) Talk to your wife and ask what she thinks it would take for her to feel happy in the marriage again (is it free time during which she has no responsibilities? Is it a sense of caring from her husband?). If beatnix can agree to those stipulations then great! Now all you have to do is fulfill them. This requires very specific goals ie EVery Friday night from 6:00-9:00 pm is the wife's free time when she can leave the house and see a movie or whatever while the hubby takes care of getting dinner for the kids etc.
2) If you each have standards which the other feels they simply cannot do then try to find a compromise. Maybe you don't know how to be the handsome prince of her dreams, but you can certainly take her on a well-planned date once a week. Maybe she can't be a super-model nymphomaniac, but you can set aside time to have sex a set number of times per month etc.
3) If one of you has simply given up and will not put forth any effort then there really is no point in staying together.
Posts: 4548 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
Kama I agree with you, but unfortunately the reality of the situation is that everyone isn't that secure. I'm lucky to have found a guy who is. But with Kat and the male friend's relationship, it wasn't really their problem, it was the problem of the wife (also a friend) who couldn't let them go on as they were before.
So in that case, yes I guess the marriage would come first. I could never be with a guy who couldn't handle the fact I have a gazillion guy friends though!
posted
(Edit: I just saw your edit, Kama. Pardon. I see where you're coming from, now. I'll leave my post up, though, just so I don't get accused of editing/deleting and running or something.)
IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, the issue is not about whether or not people can have friends of the opposite sex in their marriage. It IS foolish to try and potray that as the issue when it's patently NOT the issue.
THE ISSUE IS ABOUT TRUST. Get it? The issue is CHEATING. Beatnix thinks his wife is lying to him about this person because she's lied before. Do you really not understand, Kama, that someone will lie about being friends with another person in order to not have to face their spouse's wrath?
Look at it this way, you would have no qualms about bringing your friend home to meet your husband and would make every effort to see that he is friends with him as well. I will bet you that beatnix' wife has done no such thing. I will also bet you that her 'friend' isn't someone that she's been friends with for a long time, but just recently discovered.
IF you thought your spouse was cheating on you with someone that he claims is his friend, what would you do, Kama? If you found a condom missing, and otherwise had evidence that the person was lying to you and not trustworthy, wouldn't you ask that he stop seeing her and expect that he do so, in order that you could make your marriage work? Why is this an unreasonable request if you believed that your spouse was cheating on you? What is your answer to this? I'm really curious, because you're ignoring what beatnix is saying. It seems like people want to make him out to be over-reacting, or ignore what he's saying and change the thread to be about women and men having friendships in marriage. This thread is about beatnix and his wife. The only evidence you have is what he's telling you.
quote: it was the problem of the wife (also a friend) who couldn't let them go on as they were before.
In her defense, we'd dated for a while and I broke up with him, so she did have something of a point. Us going on as we were before was exactly what would be innapropriate, and it was too hard/not worth it to change.
*muses* That was a heck of soap opera. Maybe I'll put in the landmark. I wouldn't believe it if I didn't live/duck-and-run through it.
Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I was actually considering creating a new thread, partially beacuse I was derailing, and partially to avoid similar misunderstanding, but I'm too lazy
I actually agree with you about this particular case but I had to reply to scott's comment.
Posts: 5700 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Sorry for posting in all caps. *twitch* I'm kind of cranky right now and probably in need of a good dandelion patch. *twitch*
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote: While I agree with the spirit of your post, Jacare (especially the first step), I have to say this made my stomache turn.
quote: you can set aside time to have sex a set number of times per month
<Shrug> I actually considered whether I should post that or not, but in the end decided to go ahead. Spontaneous, romantic love-making is all to the good, but in my experience most married couples who have children don't have sex nearly as much as the husband would like. Of course, most men generally would like to have sex much more than they really need, but it is a fact that if a need like this goes unmet for a long time then feelings of anger and frustration are generated.
I basically see this as the same sort of thing as scheduling a date night every week. Sure it ruins the spontaneity and hence some of the fun, but the fact is that having children (especially young children) is a guarantee that spontaneity must pretty much be buried.
Posts: 4548 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
Beatnix, I am in a similar situation. Back in September my wife began an internet affair. I don't think she intended to, but she was unhappy with our marriage (unbeknownst to me) and so when she started playing an online game she just kind of fell into it. We had problems with our marriage, but that affair was a catalyst that made everything blow up all at once.
She left. Took the kids and moved out -- and not just out, but 1300 miles away. We've been slowly working toward getting our act together and reconciling our relationship, but the distance certainly hasn't helped.
Additionally, she maintains her relationship with this other man, now by phone. She knows that I consider it an affair, but she's gettign something from it still that she's not willing to give up yet. That time will come, but it's not yet. I do believe that she's toned it down some since her internet days with him, or at least I tell myself that so that I can live with the knowledge of her betrayal of me and our marriage, but I'm still very angry and upset about it.
I don't have anything to add that hasn't been already said, really. All I can tell you is that in my situation, I have had to look at myself and see what I was doing that wasn't good and make myself better. I can't control her, and I can't expect her to change if I myself am unwilling to change also. I can't simply tell her "you need to make this and this and these changes" but that I have to be better and show her by my example that I am better than I was and hope that my positive influence will get her to change on her own. It's frustrating and takes a lot of time, but I believe that this approach will be best in the long run, though the short is still terribly painful.
Still, though it's hard, we are beginning to rebuild our emotional connection and intimacy, and I believe that we will get to the poitn where she won't need whatever it is she gets from this other guy any more. When that day comes, then I will let her know that I expect that her relationship with him must end completely and utterly. She already knows that that needs to happen, somewhere in her heart, so it won't be a surprise to her, but she's not ready yet, and so I give her the time that she needs to heal herself while we heal each other.
If you'd like the full scoop on my situation, you can click this link and see how things have progressed over the last 3 months. It may help.
Finally, realize that you are not alone. I'm reading a book right now about healing relationships from affairs. It's been very hard for me to read becasue it's so easy to be so "me-centered" that I think that my experiences must be unique. Seeing how in this book my situation is being described down to nearly the last detail and then called "normal" has been somewhat downheartening. *BUT* it's also a good thing. If what I'm experiencing is "normal" enough that books are written about it, it's also "normal" enough to have ways to repair it, and these books contain guides and suggestions on what seems to work best and the most often.
If you're open to reading a book, the one I'm currently reading is called Not "Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. It contains a lot of generally good relationship information and ideas anyway, nevermind the "healing from betrayal" aspects of it. Another book I would recommend is called Bonds that Make Us Free. I don't remember who that is by right off the top of my head, but it's at Amazon. That one talks mostly about personal responsibility and positive influnce on others and how we can make our relationships better by taking control of ourselves. Some of it's stuff seems counter-intuitive, but it's been in applying those principles from that book for myself that seems to have gotten the best results in my relationship with my wife. That's why I'm willing to let her continue her affair while I win her back, because I believe that this has the best chance of winning her back -- for me to be the kind of person that she wants to be with, not one who demands that she change herself to satisfy me. And if I'm the kind of person she wants to be with, then she will change herself to be the kind of person who I want to be with -- and the affair will end, and neither of us will have any rancor about it to poison us as we go forward. Or so I hope. We'll see.
posted
Okay, I could add this to my other post as an edit, but I think it deserves its own post. . .
With regard to scheduled sex -- every book I've read about either maintaining or repairing a good relationship always suggests scheduled sex. Always. This isn't to say that spontaneous, romantic lovemaking can't happen too, but that by having it scheduled it makes it so that you both know that theres some very intense intimacy coming up and allows you both to prepare for it and therefore allows it to be even more intimate because you can focus on being intimate, rather than on "w00t! We're making love."
Both scheduled and spontaneous lovemaking have their place. My wife and I were much happier together when we did have a 2x a week schedule, with additional spontanaity. Hmm. I don't remember when we fell off that train, but it was a while ago. Probably about the time evetrything else seemed to really start going downhill. Ah. . .hindsight. Gotta love it.
Posts: 1323 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Again, thanks for all the posts. I appreciate the advice. A lot of it is similar to things I have done already. Unfortunately I'm in a holding stage. I've told my wife how I feel, that i want to work things out and that I'm willing to do what ever it takes. The ball is pretty much in her court. She refuses to make any commitment to leaving or working things out. We have our counceling scheduled for the 22nd and Basically I'll be waiting until then and hoping she finds it in her heart to work things out.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Hang in there.
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Edit: Ah, it doesn't matter. We're pretty happy right now, but I can remember how I've felt in the past.
