I have to remember how to word things like this. Okay, the disclaimer and explanation:
I LOVE Hatrack. I love the people here. I love the people I have met. I am willing to fly across country to meet people from Hatrack. This place offers me a bit of a home and a refuge from some serious life crap, and I simply love it for it. OF COURSE I like everyone here - that's why I post stuff like this. Because I feel safe enough here to do so.
I should have thought of that. Identifying some friends as being "better" automatically delegates other potential friends as being "worse". Hmm.... but that happens. I told y'all about the whole drama/mess/chaos/witchfest with the girl in my ward, and the saddest part about all of that is that I wasn't really surprised. I'm having a very hard time with my roommate, and part of that is our different expectations of a friend. Truth is, she only needs friends for social connections, and I need friends for family. She already has a family, and I already have social connections. I'm mad because she blows me off and doesn't listen, and she's mad because I don't invite her to places. This isn't working.
Hence the thread. Sorry. I consider Hatrack part of the inner world. This stuff only applies to the outer world. Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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I'm fascinated by this kind of thing because the whole real friends/sociality thing didn't happen until later. I spent my childhood lost in books, very sincerely. I didn't have any friends that read with me, and the few I had I now realize were given to me - they were the children of my mother's friends. I didn't have to work at it.
Remember that line in the shadow books? How Bean would always speak the language of the heart with a foreign accent - that's me in a lot of ways. Having decided friendship was something that I want and need, I'm still trying to work it all out.
Oh gosh, this is just getting worse and worse, I think. Eh, that's okay. I figure there is a list of things I want to accomplish and be in my life, and before the day is through, I will go through every one of them. I have many of the intellectual and spiritual things already covered; what's left are the physical and intersocial. I know it's backwards from the customary (and probably ideal) method of doing things, but the Lord loves me anyway. This isn't a race.
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This thread is one of those thoughtful-deep-yet-smilie ones.
I consider all you fine folks to be superior friends. In fact I consider all my friends superior - and this isn't because I only pick fabulous people to befriend but because everyone I know is superior to me in some aspect of their life. Some are far more loving and caring than I, others are more talented. Some are funnier, and some know how to act like a grown up.
My theory is: the more superior people I surround myself with, the more I'm exposed to and the more is likely to rub off. Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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quote:the more superior people I surround myself with, the more I'm exposed to and the more is likely to rub off.
Bingo.
I like being around people who make me better. It's all quite selfish, really. I'm friends with YOU for ME. Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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True, I think part of the reason people pick certain people as friends is to fill a dearth in their own personalities.
My best friend and I fill each other out so well that sometimes it's impossible to tell us apart. We fill the gaps in the other's personality. (superficial example: She's an excellent cook, I burn tomato soup)
And my other friends are the same way. We all somehow fill a gap in the other's lives. (I find often that the gap I fill in my friends lives is filled by my family, which has become a surrogate family to many of my friends...)
Posts: 4816 | Registered: Apr 2003
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On a serious note - yes. But most people are better than I am at something, if not most things. In all seriousness, finding friends based on that is a snap.
The thing that is the real clincher is finding people with my sense of humor.
Posts: 7600 | Registered: Jan 2001
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You know, I asked my husband to name anyone he knew that he considered to be my friend. He couldn't think of one.
So far this month, I've talked to my husband and a teacher at my son's school. Oh, and my mother-in-law when she needed help with her computer. And my parents when they called to talk to my son. Yep. That's it.
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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The last time I got new shoes was over a year ago when I got two pair. Since then, one has never left the box and the other still looks pretty darn new. Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Kat, do online friendships really count? We were only talking about "real" people. (My husband and I, that is.)
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eh. I only saw my husband and son for four years before I got a computer and came here. I don't think friends are necessary. Y'all make my days more fun, but I lived before. And I lived without other friends in the "real" world. I don't expect friends from here to be like friends in real life. Not that I expect friends in real life to behave like friends should. Which is pretty much why I don't have any. Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Oh, and Annie, they are only white tennis shoes. When my parents came to town, I think they were embarrassed when we went out to dinner when I wore my old ones. Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Kat, I met Caleb once. We talked for a few hours and haven't seen each other since, though we keep talking about getting together.
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I don't consciously look for people who are better than me. I just look for people I have fun being with. That means they need to be funny, intelligent, profound, good communicators, and ethical people. Whether they rank above me or slightly below me on any of those scales doesn't really matter, as long as they are on the charts.
(Of course, that implicitly assumes that I must be all of those things, neh? Oh well, if I am not high on any of those lists, my friends still must not be significantly lower. I am not trying to sound stuck up . . .)
I do think friendships are important, but I don't think you need to have many of them. It just depends on how intense a friendship you have. One really good friend is enough. In my life, I've been quite lucky in this regard. (We'll see how I feel in a year or so . . .) I don't think I could handle life without any friends (but as in other things, whether or not I have friends is in my control, whether I realize it or not.
quote:I don't expect friends from here to be like friends in real life.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but just about everybody I've met IRL from Hatrack has turned out to be an extremely special person. You could do a lot worse than troll for friends in these waters. That's one reason I don't see myself leaving. There's just too many special people here.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Katharina, I think its important to have friends who help or encourage you to be a better person, but not necessarily "better" than you.
You sell yourself short if you view all your friends as better than you and you sell your friendship short if you think you are the only one to gain. I don't believe you truly go into friendships for selfish reasons, or are in one sided friendships.
Posts: 1777 | Registered: Jan 2003
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Christy, you are 100% right. Oh dear - I posted this thread sloppily. As a professor once wrote on a paper "Lovely ideas marred by a sloppy execution." I suppose the sloppy part was that I have not sought a more accurate adjective than "better".
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You know, I think the important part is having true friends -- period.
Merely HAVING friends -- merely having people outside your immediate family who you care about, and for whom you would sacrifice something -- makes you a better person, AND adds depth to your life.
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Icky, I've only met Caleb in real life. I was specifically talking about Kat. Are we friends? Sure, online. But other than interacting at Hatrack, does she really have an impact on my life? No. I don't clear afternoons to have lunch or go shopping with her. I don't talk to her on the phone while I'm making dinner. Our kids don't play together while we're having a glass of wine in the afternoon. I don't call her when I'm sick of being at home and want to go see a movie on a whim. We interact when it's convient for both of us. If one of us was gone, how long would it take the other to even notice? Hell, you could be Katharina for all I know. See my point?
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Katharina, I think you had a good step forward when you went with admire. The friends you keep have characteristics/strengths that you respect and admire about them.
You tend to keep friends that live up to (share?) your ideals? Although, you've said that you may not share beliefs. Perhaps, you tend to keep friends who live up to their ideals. Who value bettering themselves which encourages you?
Posts: 1777 | Registered: Jan 2003
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Hmmm... admire is probably closer. I'm not sure.
I was trying to think of what made Molly such an incredible person. I realize "better" is the nineteen-year-old shorthand for what I thought of her. I didn't (don't) want her life, but I liked her.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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All of my friends are better than me at something. Some are better athletes. Some are smarter. Some are better musicians. Most are funnier. I wouldn't say that any of them are "better" than me, though.
I'm not sure I really "pick" my friends, either. That is, I can be quite outgoing when I choose to be, and when I'm like that I'll talk to and interact with a lot of people. Usually I'm like that at beginnings: first few months of college, first few months at a new job site, first few months of being on Hatrack. I find that I just naturally gravitate towards certain people. I find them engaging for one reason or another, and it often works out that I have a lot in common with these people, whether it be a sense of humor, general worldview or certain interests. The closeness of the resulting relationship is sometimes proportional to how well I mesh with the person (in terms of both similar and complementary traits).
On the other hand, I have several friends, some here, some offline, several very close, with whom I have some very fundamental differences in temperament or philosophy. This can put a certain amount of strain on the friendship, but I can't think of a time that it's actually ended it.
Friendships are incredibly important to me. I'm a very loyal person; my friends are like family to me. I'd take a bullet for any one of my friends. Having friends enriches life.
Posts: 4534 | Registered: Jan 2003
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Twink: Okay, that leads to the next question.
Do you admire what you don't have and wish to? Or do you admire what you do have and therefore value?
Do you have it because you value it and therefor worked on it? Or do you value it because you have it and that value stems the "what I am is better" narcissism of children?
----
I'm starting to realize just how politically charged the word "better" is. Okay, I'll stop using that. It came from laziness anyway, so this is all for the better.
quote:I'm starting to realize just how politically charged the word "better" is. Okay, I'll stop using that. It came from laziness anyway, so this is all for the better.
You didn't even make it one sentence!! Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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I only keep friends that I can have a good intellectual discussion with. The temporary n00b Jimmy and I are best friends. He is the more liberal of the two of us.
Posts: 650 | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote: (Side note: This is killing me in dating, because my same theory holds there and it does NOT fit the Mormon dating model at ALL - which is, if you aren't sure within three months, give up and find someone else. Dang it.)
Uhhh...Luckily, not every Mormon believes in this model. I know I sure don't. Just find someone who fits your model of how things ought to be.
I personally have a few good friends and many many acquaintances. If I never saw any of my acquaintances again, I'm not totally sure I'd notice they were gone. Without my few really good friends in my life, I'd be miserable.
"I shall choose friends among men, but neither slaves nor masters. And I shall choose only such as please me, and them I shall love and respect, but neither command nor obey. And we shall join our hands when we wish, or walk alone when we so desire." - Anthem
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*laugh* I just caught why half the people in the thread have come slightly wary.
Thread title: Picking friends who are better than you.
Nono, let me try that again.
Thread title: Picking friends who are better than you.
Good heavens, no wonder. Okay. Ten points off the top for just shooting my mouth off out loud without considering (1) the fact that I am in the company of friends, (2) POV, and (3) vocabulary. Sorry. I love you guys - enough to feel so comfortable I do not carefully weigh and listen to my words before I say them. On the other hand, maybe I should. Sorry.
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Kayla- From the sample of Hatrackers I've met, I'd say that the on-line folks here are real people.
Real in the sense that the people they are on-line are the same people they are in real life.
True, you don't need to put on your make-up before you say "Hi" to them on-line, but aside from that, I'd say that the people here are even easier to hang with IRL than they are on-line.
I wouldn't discount a friend, or count yourself friendless, just because you haven't shared a meal with these good folks.
Posts: 2425 | Registered: Jan 2002
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>> Do you admire what you don't have and wish to? Or do you admire what you do have and therefore value? <<
Option 3 -- I especially admire the things in which they are greater than I.
Also I admire traits I don't possess, but to a lesser extent. My friend Fred, for example, plays every instrument I play, only better. I both respect and admire that. He's also smarter than I am. I respect and admire that.
But in friendship, I find that respect has to be mutual. He isn't my friend because I think he's better than me, he's my friend because there's mutual respect that has developed over time.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
I do seek to spend time with people I am trying to "model". But those folks aren't necessarily friends.
Friends come in all different packages for me: Telephone friends - Never met them, but would miss them if we didn't talk every day. Work friends - These guys are more like family. I'd give them a kidney if they needed one. Cocktails- These are the folks that are guaranteed to brighten my day and make me forget my own troubles; I call them at 5P on my way home. Social Friends - It's always a special occasion when we get together.
I identify friends as the people that make me feel relaxed. The people that allow me to be myself and who don't walk on eggshells around me.
Specifically, generally they're the people who make fun of me when I do something stupid and I laugh right along with them.
And when they're in need, and I'm able to help, they're the people who understand that seeing them happy is all the thanks I'll ever need.
Posts: 2425 | Registered: Jan 2002
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<---- Tries to think of something he can do better than twink. Comes up empty.
I'd say that I respect the qualities in other people that we share and admire the qualities they have that I don't. It's hard to respect something that you're just not familiar with.
And yes, I do think there's a difference between admiration and respect.
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
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>> I'd say that I respect the qualities in other people that we share and admire the qualities they have that I don't. It's hard to respect something that you're just not familiar with. <<
That's a good way of putting it.
I admire the strength of BtL's convictions in certain areas and the strength of his character in others. I respect his intelligence and wit, among other things.
posted
I've been lucky to be blessed with good, log-term friends (and I'm only (almost) 27. Sure, in elementary, middle, and high school, there was always that one slightly unhealthy friend, but I don't keep in touch with them (and I often found that when I was friends with them, they didn't try any garbage on me)... I seem to have a knack for gaining the resprect of "fringe people", those folks perceived to be at the edge of a given group.
But enough self-promotion.
As for current friends, I still keep in touch and visit college friends, though I've been out of college, and we all live far from each other, for 4-5 years. My current roommate (until I move in with my girlfriend next week) is one of my friends from 2nd grade! I also have friends from pre-school (well, I met them in pre-school, but became really good friends in 5th/6th grade).
The best thing is, they are all good friends, friends for a lifetime. I don't know why I attract these people toward me, but I ain't complaining
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