posted
Unless you're a Puritan McCarthyist, neither Christian ideals nor American ideals call for the disenfranchisement and exile of citizens who use speech to express criticism of the United States, you jackass.
I put the word 'speech' in bold because the Founding Fathers you no doubt claim to revere thought that the freedom of speech was so absolutely vital it was in their first amendment to the Constitution.
Demanding Wright's exile as an expression of American ideals makes you a much bigger enemy of those very ideals you claim to respect.
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Remember though Rakeesh that as early as John Adams' presidency, the alien sedition acts were passed which seriously impeded free speech. Clearly not all the founding fathers thought it an absolutely pivotal right. Lincoln too arrested journalists both for revealing union movements and for speaking out against his policies during the Civil War.
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While that's accurate, it doesn't really diminish the idea that the Founding Fathers, when spoken of as a group, overwhelmingly reject the sort of ideals Ron is espousing.
Certainly Adams had a change of heart between the Constitutional Convention and his later presidency, or at least I think it's safe to say so-he was neck deep in the former, after all.
Lincoln takes a hit for jailing journalists speaking out against his policies, though definitely not for revealing Union movements. The one is free speech, however detrimental in the midst of a war. The other is outright treason.
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quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: If you'd like me to show my racism, I'll point out that Deshuan's dadddy gone.
Okay, why is it that whenever you try to point out reasons that you are 'showing your racism,' they have pretty much nothing to do with why you're getting hammered with the charge by other people?
I'm illustrating how stating a fact can lead to being called a racist. Am I racist to state that African Americans score the lowest and have the lowest high school graduation rate in the nation? Am I an Asian supremasist for stating the fact that Asians have the highest graduation rate and test scores?...of course not, I'm not Asian. This is the PC problem. If an Asian stated that fact, you would interpret it as a supremasist comment. Truth is truth. The same truth said by one is ok but when said by another is not. I brought up the CDC stats because I knew that stating those facts would make me look racist despite the fact the the statement was accurate and verifiable. If Al Sharpton said the same, he'd be praised for helping his community. A white sais it, he's a racist. Deshuan's daddy is gone and so are 80% of children with his background. I pointed out his majority status but when I point out the minority status of a good black father, like Obama, it is also racist. I don't have the appropriate skin color to discuss such issues, either way I'm wrong.
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Am I the only one who thinks it's just a tiny bit, well, I don't know if it's offensive, but bothersome at least, to say "Deshuan's daddy"? The phrasing makes it sound like a diminutive reference. Daddy is a word that children use. Well, it has other wholly inappropriate connotations as well, but they aren't really applicable here.
Say father. Dad is fine even.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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My daughter calls me daddy. Dehsuan's daddy is gone, which is not uncommon at all. I'll admit the phrase "daddy gone" didn't originate in my family.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: If you'd like me to show my racism, I'll point out that Deshuan's dadddy gone.
Okay, why is it that whenever you try to point out reasons that you are 'showing your racism,' they have pretty much nothing to do with why you're getting hammered with the charge by other people?
Am I racist to state that African Americans score the lowest and have the lowest high school graduation rate in the nation? Am I an Asian supremasist for stating the fact that Asians have the highest graduation rate and test scores?...of course not, I'm not Asian. I don't have the appropriate skin color to discuss such issues, either way I'm wrong.
You are aware that Asians used to have much lower IQ test scores that whites, right, mal? I hope you are.
Posts: 3354 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: While that's accurate, it doesn't really diminish the idea that the Founding Fathers, when spoken of as a group, overwhelmingly reject the sort of ideals Ron is espousing.
Certainly Adams had a change of heart between the Constitutional Convention and his later presidency, or at least I think it's safe to say so-he was neck deep in the former, after all.
Lincoln takes a hit for jailing journalists speaking out against his policies, though definitely not for revealing Union movements. The one is free speech, however detrimental in the midst of a war. The other is outright treason.
Wasn't Adams in Europe during the entire Convention? I'm pretty sure he was ambassador to either France or England, I can't remember which.
As for Lincoln, I don't remember reading about him jailing journalists for speaking out against him. In fact, I specifically recall an instance where a Union general shut down a major Chicago Copperhead newspaper for railing against Lincoln, and Lincoln overruled the general in ordering the paper reopened. I can think of another couple of examples where prominent figures were arrested either by locals or generals only to be saved by Lincoln, but I'd have to go back through my notes to get the names right.
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quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: Certainly Adams had a change of heart between the Constitutional Convention and his later presidency
According to the McCullough biography, he was against those acts but politically not powerful enough to fight them.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Lyrhawn and Rivka are correct-I was getting my Founding Fathers mixed up. *embarrassed*
Fortunately, though, my error wasn't one made by our country as a whole, and Ron's outlook that critical or even hateful, contemptuous speech by citizens towards our nation, its government, or both, should be punished by exile, is about as unAmerican as anything gets.
It's a disgraceful perversion of American ideals, and he ought to be ashamed to suggest them. But since Ron (by his political expressions on this forum) is actually a profoundly bad American - that is, he routinely fails to cherish the best ideas of American, and often suggests trampling them - I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't.
He should be ashamed but not, thankfully, exiled.
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