posted
Jenine Garaffalo can play me. Partly because she looks a little like me (only cuter), Partly because I want to hear her say things I know she would violently disagree with, but mostly because I want to see her in Pixie Wings.
quote:And yet, the primary complaint against me, which has dominated every thread I have created in the past week, much to my dismay and horror, is that I write differently, that my writing is indicative of the other, even that I placed a circumflex in a strange manner.
Still haven't got it.
If all different usage of the English language was equally readable, you'd have a point worth working on. However it doesn't even remotely work this way. The idea that "oh, you guys are just ganging up on me because my writing style is different" is as bunk as it would be if you were writing in leetspeak or pig latin.
e.g., It's not that your writing is "indicative of the other," it's that your writing is "so bad that people don't know what the hell you are talking about."
Plus, this seems to be a peripheral issue. People are more concerned, apparently, with my point #2, involving stuffiness and obnoxiousness.
In fact, it's starting to mute into a point #3: Your dramatics are so overblown and ridiculous that it's fairly comical. You can't even post without managing to sound like a caricature of an obsessive dramatic.
Like with this:
quote:I realize that it is now perhaps to late for me, and that, in the eyes of many here, I have been damned. I shall, however, remain here, whatever the opposition and I shall continue to post, even if only the newest members read what I say, even, indeed, if I am left whispering to the wind I shall remain, on the off chance that the wind may blow some of my words to the ears of those who will not consciously listen.
Even when ignoring the terrible sentence structure, it's still ridiculous. Yea, woe, I be damned, woe, resolute I stand in my ignominy to hope that my brilliant views might be seen by people who aren't yet nauseated by my posts, such is my selfless generosity to my unkind public. Woe, woe.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
To be honest if I was told to act like myself in a scene you would probably get some slight variations every time the scene was run.
I think at 24 year old Johnny Depp would do a good job being me. Not that I look like him in any particular way, but I think he could adapt to capture my personality.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: And yet, the primary complaint against me, which has dominated every thread I have created in the past week, much to my dismay and horror, is that I write differently, that my writing is indicative of the other, even that I placed a circumflex in a strange manner.
I believe in a vibrant Hatrack with many styles of writing, as many as there are posters.
The circumflex was there, IMO, because of a consciously pretentious and pompous style. This is not strange, but all too common in young, intelligent writers.I chose to comment on it because it seems emblematic of your style problems. AFAIK, it is not in commom usage in modern English.
I also believe in a lively Hatrack with many styles of writing. And I'll criticise/parody some of those styles. That's a small but significant part of the Hatrack Experience™.
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:After all, you are reaching levels of obnoxiousness I could never hope to achieve.
Then hey, don't worry about me or anything I've said. I absolutely think you've got a persecution thing going on. I actually don't think you can read this situation at all. If my trying to point this out is nothing but sheer obnoxiousness to you, then, there you go. Forget about me. You are absolutely welcome to continue acting exactly the way you act.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
From now on, I'm only going to read the Pelegious posts which sound like a soliloquy. As long as there's damnation and purgatory, and it sounds like an angsty Jr. High goth kid trying out for drama class, you've got my ear.
Heck, you've got my bow!
P.S. Gene Wilder can play me.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
I was planning on holding off posting for certain significant-post-count reasons, but this is enough for me to re-register.
Pelegius, what Sam (and really, almost everyone in this damn thread) is doing amounts to surgery; it's sharp, it's direct, it hurts, and you need it if you hope to survive, here or in the real world.
People before me have summarized what I want to say at least as well as I can, so I'm just going to ask questions that I can't recall you answering.
1) Do you talk like this in real life?
2) In your real life, is your worth as a human being determined by how well educated you are, how well educated your teachers were, what academic credentials you have, etc.?
3) Do you judge whether other people are worthy of talking to based on the aforementioned criteria?
It's true that a lot of people here either dislike you or find you hard to swallow because of the way you present yourself here, but rather than wallowing in the misery and attempting to justify yourself, why not just try thinking about what people have said? When opinion is this universal, it generally means something.
To quote Asimov (who, admittedly, isn't the best of writers, but bear with me):
quote:The robot said, "I have been trying, friend Julius, to understand some remarks Elijah made to me earlier. Perhaps I am beginning to, for it suddenly seems to me that the destruction of what should not be, that is, the destruction of what you people call evil, is less just and desirable than the conversion of this evil into what you call good."
He hesitated, then, almost as though he were surprised at his own words, he said, "Go, and sin no more!"
quote:In fact, it's starting to mute into a point #3: Your dramatics are so overblown and ridiculous that it's fairly comical. You can't even post without managing to sound like a caricature of an obsessive dramatic.
Like with this:
quote:I realize that it is now perhaps to late for me, and that, in the eyes of many here, I have been damned. I shall, however, remain here, whatever the opposition and I shall continue to post, even if only the newest members read what I say, even, indeed, if I am left whispering to the wind I shall remain, on the off chance that the wind may blow some of my words to the ears of those who will not consciously listen.
Even when ignoring the terrible sentence structure, it's still ridiculous. Yea, woe, I be damned, woe, resolute I stand in my ignominy to hope that my brilliant views might be seen by people who aren't yet nauseated by my posts, such is my selfless generosity to my unkind public. Woe, woe.
But you have to admit that it's hilarious.
quote:Well, my professors studied with, with, Einstein! and Charles Dickens and Aristotle.
We are the only university with a time-travel device.
posted
Am I alone in finding this whole dialogue completely pointless, and having little sympathy for either Pelegius or his critics?
Pelegius, why don't you just return to the serious threads and make yourself heard? If people respond with insults to your writing style, demand that they address your arguments and if they don't, point out that they're conceding the real issue to you.
That said, I know you're an admirer of the analytic tradition in philosophy. (Glad to have another one on the board, btw.) Why not look again (or for the first time, if you haven't read it) at Naming and Necessity. See how clear Kripke is, how he avoids flowery locutions and how it improves his ability to get his point across. The great philosophers of our time try to write in plain language. Why not emulate them?
And to the rest of Hatrack: I've said my piece about Pelegius's writing, phrased as a suggestion and not an insult, and I see no need to mention it ever again. I can't understand why you all don't adopt the same attitude.
Why be mean about it?
Posts: 4600 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I would assume Jim Belushi for me as people are constantly telling me I look like him (which I assume is a pleasant way of saying "overweight and balding").
And people who continue to say "hatrack, you're so MEAN" are welcome to find other fora, as far as I'm concerned. Hatrack is an enormously kind place as far as net stuff goes. In fact, I'm of the opinion a large portion of the problem with hatrack is that the main of the population here is entirely too nice and too tolerant of people who play the martyr card. Largely because of this, hypersensitive nonsense like (and often worse than) this thread has a tendency to crop up from time to time.
There were times when people would kill each other over insults. Modern day gang members still do. Part of being an adult is being able to hear "you suck", both when warranted and not, and get on with your life. Before I sound too high and mighty about this, I'll freely admit that I only started learning to in the last couple of years, myself.
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Pel, I was thinking about this thread today, and about Hatrack in general. I'm actually a great deal like you. I'm 17 (turning 18 on Wednesday! woohoo!). I have a great love for classical stuff. I even wax eloquent like you sometimes, though I will say not nearly to the same extent as you, at least not in writing. Also, (and I'm assuming a bit about you here, but oh well), I'm used to being one of the smartest, most well-read, most intellectual, most eloquent people in the room. And therein lies the beauty of Hatrack, at least for me. They make me feel stupid . And I know, that's an extreme way of putting it, and not strictly true. The people on here, they are very smart (most of them), and most of them are very well thought out, and articulate. Much more so than me. They humble me. This is, for me, the safest place for me to go where I am not looked at as someone smart. I come here and people aren't suprised when I don't know something or when I have nothing to say. It's wonderful. There are no expectations on me.
I was going to say something else, but I'll leave it at that.
Posts: 2827 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
(Pelegius, I didn't want to derail it, but your three posts in the "maternal feelings" thread were much better. They sounded more "real".)
Posts: 1522 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: I beg that even those who have sworn forever to ignore me read this post in its entirety, even if it is their last.
SAALAM.
I still didn't make past the first paragraph. But I am weak. Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I haven't sworn to ignore him completely, but I probably will. Or, maybe, you know, skim his posts until my eyes glaze over and then give up. Which essentially amounts to the same thing.
There is no fear of the other, this has been said so many times that I fear it is becoming a creed which all Hatrackers must sign daily. And yet, the primary complaint against me, which has dominated every thread I have created in the past week, much to my dismay and horror, is that I write differently, that my writing is indicative of the other, even that I placed a circumflex in a strange manner.
I did read this paragraph. So I MUST respond. I cannot tear myself from this thing.
If you REALLY think this is the main complaint against you, then you are just not qualified to dress yourself. The complaints have been myriad and confusing, yes, but I think the grievous complaint, the real stinker, is not how you write.
We can HELP you write well. I can tell you what is wrong with your writing and you can work on it; you can learn. This is not so much a tragic flaw as a constant annoyance to everyone, this innability of yours to be clear in your writing. This is the clearest you've been, and I like that. See? Things can get better for you.
These are the complaints as I see them in no particular order:
1. Your tone. The first thing people notice after the writing style, is the tone you use, which is highly effected. Aristotle wrote (and I believe him) that people naturally become aware of falseness in speach; that it becomes self-evident over time. It doesn't take very long for your tone to start grating on the reader.
2. Your ideas. This is the BIG ONE. Though hinting at some things which are essentiall discoveries for everyone in their own time, your ideas most often lack clarity, weight, precision, or import. You merely declare things and you believe that if you couch them properly, they will SOUND correct. This goes to your tone, but you forget that you must be willing and able to think about things critically and show your thought process. Go back and read some Platonic dialogues, and marvel at the simplicity of them, the clarity and the progression. Plato makes it look so simple.
Horace is oft-quoted saying that "Poetry [apply this to all the arts], must instruct and delight." Your prose make people wretch, your ideas make people do a :facepalm: in embarassment on your behalf. While I don't mean to embarrass you yet further, you must be made aware of how foolish you look to me at least, and I surmise, to others as well.
3. Your presentation. You consistently offer, out of the blue, a poorly polished thought or idea which is clouded in a bunch of quotations no one ever heard before, and which are made to seem important, but may not be. Regardless of their import, they are far too broad to be meaningfully applied to the scant contribution you usually try to make. Your tone is involved in this too, because you treat your pithy thoughts with such weight. When I post pithy thoughts, I write them in a pithy post, so that those who are not interested in general pithosity may avoid them.
4. Your style. This I have handled a little above. Your style is effected and ridiculous, and you don't have the gravitas or the understanding to back it up. It is out of place, unintelligable, and just generally embarrassing.
5. Your attitude. Also going to tone and style. Every conversation begins with your contribution, which as I have repeatedly said, is ussually a manipulation into a discussion about YOU. If you aren't manipulating things this way, then you are naturally the most selfish most self-centered person I have ever heard of. You constantly whine and complain, and you mock everyone else for anything and everything we do wrong, but you don't dane to accept the slightest blame for a bad idea or an ill-planned remark.
These items are all part of the same general cloud that surrounds you here. You are a charicature of a debater, and your essays frankly read like attempts at comedy. I see myself beginning to get vindictive, so I must force myself to stop for now. Please take this to heart if you can, and think over these things instead of inferring some jealousy or ideology which I have against you.
Any Hatracker that knows me knows that I too feel strongly about things, and can go overboard, make mistakes, hurt feelings, as we all can sometimes. But I think that also most will say that I have the ability to recieve a little perspective and think things through to the other side of the equation. My responses are mostly in view of what needs to be adressed, and there is progress in the discussions (fanfic not-withstanding, we all really felt strongly about that one). There is no progression in your threads, you don't seem to want to learn or teach anything in your discourse, and that frankly sucks.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote: Any Hatracker that knows me knows that I too feel strongly about things, and can go overboard, make mistakes, hurt feelings, as we all can sometimes. But I think that also most will say that I have the ability to recieve a little perspective and think things through to the other side of the equation. My responses are mostly in view of what needs to be adressed, and there is progress in the discussions (fanfic not-withstanding, we all really felt strongly about that one). There is no progression in your threads, you don't seem to want to learn or teach anything in your discourse, and that frankly sucks.
This is much to your credit; you've definitely evolved into a much more tolerable human being in your duration here.
Pel, take notes. I'm not kidding.
Posts: 246 | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
I'm sorry, but that name always sounds like a mood disorder to me.
"While everyone else enjoyed the vacation, Sydney always felt vaguely stressed out. Maybe it was the lack of structure, or the heat, or maybe just that she felt more challenged during the school year, but whatever the cause she definitely suffered from summer glau."
Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
I've been pretty busy since I posted last. Did we have our Greatest Moment while I was away, or is it still before us?
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Shigosei: I want Summer Glau to play me!
That seems like a natural choice for you, Shigosei.
I have no idea who would play me. Could I just vote for "not Tom Hanks"? 'Cause we don't look anything a like, and he's got that whole manic freaky thing going on.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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. And I know, that's an extreme way of putting it, and not strictly true. The people on here, they are very smart (most of them), and most of them are very well thought out, and articulate. Much more so than me. They humble me. This is, for me, the safest place for me to go where I am not looked at as someone smart. I come here and people aren't suprised when I don't know something or when I have nothing to say. It's wonderful. There are no expectations on me.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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