posted
Oh dear, that's rather dysfunctional. It seems to me that the obvious solution is to be prepared for a situation to get physical, and make sure to win the next one. Do not permit your father to think that he can get anywhere by hitting you.
That said, it does seem to me that he had a point. Holding your mother's purse is a perfectly reasonable request, and unless it's the size of a suitcase there was certainly room. Your brother, frankly, was being a bit of an asshole. Which does not excuse your father's reaction, but it seems to me there might be problems on both sides.
Let's try to get in a good number of years this weekend; you can move out when the Great Game is ended.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Blayne, I'm so sorry. I think this situation needs to change for you and your brother.
Three things:
1) Had you considered contacting the woman I mentioned above? (If you don't want to, that's your call, but I think making specific steps towards getting out of there in a safe way is a Very Good Thing.)
2) How old is your brother?
3) I always worry about blows to the back or chest, because this does deliver an electrical charge. CPR used to be jump-started sometimes with a solid blow to the sternum, which usually releases about 90 volts (if I recall correctly) through the heart. Your father really, really should not be hitting you guys this hard anyway, but this is extra dangerous. And I don't think your confronting him about it right now would be safe for you, in my opinion.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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I have no wonderful advice to offer - I can only say I don't know you from a leaf that blows on my porch but I'm really hoping that things work out well for you. Moving out of my parents house (when I had no saving, no great job, no fall back plan) was a really good thing for me. We'd gotten along for the most part but as I was 20 things were getting sort of strained - I saw myself as an adult (i'd moved out for much of college then moved back) but I was still living in their home and they still saw me as their child. Money was tight for a while but it's worked out very well in 'the end'. Plus - added benefit - the distance made us more able to speak about what went on there at the end and also about what we feel about our relationship with each other.
I'm hoping your situation yeilds a positive ending as well - for you AND your brother.
Posts: 1355 | Registered: Jul 2006
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My opinion of you has dropped off the chart. Seriously, you are perhaps the most callous and thoughtless person I've ever encountered. Advocating escalation of the violence in this family situation is just plain dangerous.
Blayne,
I wasn't actually able to follow all of what you said (I didn't know who dd is who your mom is telling to get a job in the middle of this melee). Allow me, if I may, to make a few observations:
1) Judging from your mom's reaction, the violence is a recurring event.
2) This scene appears to have played itself out in public view. Think about this a bit...If true, it means that normal social restraints have been been breached a long time ago and your family is basically more than just "dysfunctional" with respect to interpersonal interaction.
3) Your father has something seriously wrong with impulse control. Even provoked by smart-@ss comments his reactions are way over the top and he needs to be separated from the family.
4) In most communities, a domestic violence call to police results in at least one person spending the night in jail. I suggest that person should be your father, and I suggest it should be soon. And, if your mother is being hit, and/or if your brother is under the age of 18, I suggest that there should also be a visit from child protective services or some other type of counseling/evaluation official with the power to resolve the situation in the interest of the safety of any minor children.
I don't really know how Canada resolves these issues, especially in rural areas, but most of the law enforcement agencies I know will automatically impose an overnight buffer for everyone...I suspect that must be true in Canada too.
There is no stretch by which this is normal or acceptable.
Is there alcohol or drugs involved?
Is dad having problems?
My advice, if your mom will not call the police, you should.
This seems to be escalating if, as you said earlier, his hitting you was the first time ever... What the heck is going on?
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Thanks Bob -- you said what I believe needs to be said, and what a lot of people here seem to be too afraid to.
I don't know a lot about you, or your family situation Blayne. But it's obvious that there are some serious problems, ones that aren't going to be resolved by simply getting a job and moving out (despite what a lot of people here think...)
Even if that was just your father's second violent act in his life (which I'm beginning to doubt) it's most definitely not going to stop by itself at this point. At this point the police need to be involved.
Many people think that family issues (even violence) should be settled domestically, but I disagree. With something as serious as this (and a thing that could potentially get much worse) both the police and some sort of counseling service needs to be informed.
I'm not the smartest guy around, and I don't know a lot about this kind of stuff -- but I am worried for you and your family. I strongly feel that something more needs to be done, Blayne.
Maybe calling the police is the wrong decision here (and I don't think it is) and I'm hoping some people here with more experience than me will be able to give you better advice. But...you need to act or I really think something far worse could happen.
And KoM: that is absolutely horrible. I...cannot...believe that you said that.
Posts: 290 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
KoM's probably the closest friend Blayne has on Hatrack, and I'm sure is being half-sarcastic. The rest of you are poking around in a kid's life that you have almost zero familiarity with.
I don't think Blayne has even asked for advice. I read the initial post as venting. He is old enough to make his own decisions and will. Geez.
Posts: 1156 | Registered: Jan 2004
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Idk wut u should do Blayne but if I was you I woulda alrdy smacked the crap outta the dude so good for you so far Posts: 1158 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
airmanfour: when physical danger becomes apparent I could care less if I'm "poking around" in somebody's life.
I'm sorry, but I can't let apathy keep me from trying to help him out.
And seriously man: of course he can (and will) make his own decisions. That doesn't keep me from giving advice to somebody I'm worried about.
Posts: 290 | Registered: Sep 2002
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I have deliberately stayed away from offering advice until I had clear evidence that this is not just an isolated event. At that point, this is no longer conjecture, but an obvious domestic violence situation.
To claim otherwise would be to call Blayne a liar.
Also, I know that KoM and Blayne have a relationship through gaming. I also can detect the sarcasm in his tone. What I can't fathom is, in the midst of wanting to support a friend, advocating a line of attack that could well get someone seriously hurt or killed.
This is not playtime. This isn't a supposition. It's playing it safe given what Blayne has told us and what the sad, sad statistics on this sort of thing tell us.
A person who has, in the space of a couple of days, so violently attacked his children as to punch one and floor him and pummel the other while he is strapped down...well, let's just say it crossed a line beyond which most law enforcement agencies would be making arrests, from what I know of such things.
So...while I agree that it's totally presumptuous on my part to offer any advice, I'm "comfortable" offering advice that errs on the side of the safety of people in the situation.
I hear what you're saying, and I considered it before posting.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
KoM's advice is certaintly sound from a "national" perspective.
example: nation A carpet bombs a town in Country B
Country B should consider it a Casus Beli an declare war if all attempts at compensation fail or else be in the pocket of nation A forever.
I fo sure have not felt that his advice was being sarcastic or sounded callous in anyway way.
My mom was suggesting that my father gets a job, and his is partly a problem why we have hesitated to calling the police, we operate a home buisness that makes and sells ceramics it is the source of 95% of the income 5% being from my fathers cremation buisness on the side.
Money is also a bit tight and I see our standard of living plunging by quite a bit and frankly my own addiction to computer games is also hindering my aility to do anyhting that ould upset the status quo and I have no wish to drop out of school to replace my dads position in th buisness.
As for getting a new job in regards to myself I at an impulse got a job application form to work at Little Caesars Pizzaria and im contacting my college to see if they can get me work anywhere.
As for the woman yould suggested I talk to I just had a test in Database I had to study for (which i think Ill get 90something%) but I bookmarked the page and once school quits down a bit ill try contacting her.
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Please do not follow KoM's advice. If the situation is escalating in the way you seemed to indicate in your description, someone can (and probably will) be seriously hurt.
As it is, a domestic violence "rap" is something that is easily recoverable from if the family (and the violent person) can work things out with the help of some counseling and whatever additional programs are required. It's not a sure thing, by any stretch, but it's better than the alternatives.
You, for example, are an adult and would be tried as an adult if you succeeded in beating your father to the point where he could no longer retaliate (i.e., beat him senseless). Depending on how far you go with that, you could be facing manslaughter or attempted manslaughter charges.
Of course, if the prosecutor gets ahold of this thread and decides your actions were premeditated, and you manage to do even more harm...well, let's not think about the charges in that case. Right?
Okay, now let's look at what happens if you fail to beat your father into submission. Rather, he gets the upper hand on you. You are going to miss a lot more than a semester or two of school, no?
And he'll be in jail, not you. Facing much more serious charges, right? So his contribution to the family income is gone anyway.
I'm not trying to be a Polly-Anna here. There are lots of ways this could de-escalate on its own. I don't really know you or your family. But if you think about it for even just one calm moment you will see that nothing good will come from escalating the violence or retaliating against your father physically.
Some unpleasantness will follow the call on domestic violence. But compared to the worst-case scenarios, it's pretty much nothing. And if he has not actually struck a minor child, he would not have a really serious problem with the law assuming he and your mother can come to some sort of agreement on how things will work in the house.
Granted, if he has pummeled a minor, there may be some involvement of the law that can't be undone through verbal agreements among your mom and dad. It might mean having social services involved with your family for awhile. It could even lead to removal of minors from the household if the social worker isn't convinced that your father can be trusted or will definitely be out of the picture.
Again, it's a real judgement call, but to err on the side of safety is better than the worst-case scenario.
And, my big fear is that the worst-case scenario is where you are headed if you decide to take KoM's advice. This isn't some stupid RPG, Blayne. This is real life and someone could lose theirs.
PS: glad to hear you are thinking about some positive steps on the earning front.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
I start writing posts and I erase them because I just feel like I'm pissing up a rope and that any advice I give is just going to make things worse.
If there's any way you can get your family into therapy, please do it. Please. You all need it.
Also, don't drink or do drugs. You just cannot do that. Ever.
Get help, Blayne. Good luck.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
was using the escaulation arguement as an example why I didnt think KoMs advice was meant in a bad way.
do not drink or do drugs, never have never will. I have never drunk anything more then wine coolers in my entire life and I refuse to do so.
Look, I don't know Canadian law, but here in the states (at least most states), a domestic violence charge could well include child endangerment (or similar). Your mother, by not reporting it, could also be in for some tough questioning. It could result in the minor being removed.
You, as an adult living in the household, might have some questions to answer as well about why you didn't report it.
But the real issue is, again, safety for the minor.
Again...I know nothing of Canadian law in these matters. I imagine it's similar to US and UK laws. I know that in England itself, they take this stuff VERY seriously. If the Canadian system is similar, there will be intervention.
Honestly, Blayne, I can't make that call for you, and you are the only one who can decide what you are going to do. But here in the States it's pretty clear that this would result in dad having a night (at least) away from home and possibly your brother going to a shelter or foster care unless the social worker is satisfied that things are safe at home.
That's a HUGE step to take. If you call the police, it'll set wheels in motion that, because of the presence of a minor, you may not be able to stop -- nor could your mom or dad just by talking.
I can understand hesitating under those circumstances.
But... Where is this heading?
Does your family have the interpersonal skills to make this situation better? Is the next event going to be avoidable or is dad just a time-bomb that you can't predict when he'll go off?
If it's the latter, then my advice is still to take the safe route.
I'm sorry if I misunderstood your reaction to KoM's advice. I took it to mean that you were comparing your situation to a gaming one and viewing the strategy as a sound one. Again, I apologize for mistaking your intent there..
Be safe.
Make sure your brother and mom are safe.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Blayne, also in the states and I don't know Canadian law, but some prosecutors will try to charge 17 year olds as adults in cases involving particular types of crimes. If your brother is apt to go after your dad, the consequences to him could also be severe...
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Also, have you ever had a heart to heart with your mom and told her how you really feel about your dad hitting you? Perhaps if you haven't, you might consider it and maybe bring your brother along to voice how he feels. You guys can tell her how you feel, not to punish her or to make her feel bad, but as a preface to saying,"This family needs help, mom. Please help us get it." I also think it might be good to tell her that if your father ever hits either of you again, you're calling the police, and that you don't want to do that. You want to be in a good family, and the best way to achieve that is through family therapy.
I know this advice may not be safe for you in your house, Blayne, but if you feel that it's not, then maybe it's time to bring in the police right now, no questions asked. Perhaps a little taste of jail will give your father perspective on what happens to people who can't control their emotions.
And on that note, please do your level best to not provoke your father. Just as your father has a responsibility to not hit you, you have a responsibility to consider his feelings and not goad him on.
Again, your family needs therapy. You need to work on building yourself up so you can move out and support yourself. CT's advice to talk to that person before you do so is excellent. Don't move out if you aren't ready to do so yet.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
I basically agree with Bob, except that it's not clear to me that the police are an absolute necessity right now. My outlook is really what's best for the family, and therapy is what's going to be needed whatever happens, police or not. It's just better if the police don't have to get involved. But if they do, then they do.
Anyways, I'm not trying to short-circuit what Bob's saying, Blayne, we're just kind of cross-posting over each other and both basically saying that something needs to be done because you are in a very dangerous situation.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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I agree with Storm Saxon on the family therapy idea.
I do hope that that's a possibility for you all and that it can happen soon (tomorrow morning is not too early).
I may be worrying more than the situation really warrants. Only you can really judge that.
And, yes, getting the authorities involved is not the preferred option if the family members will go through therapy.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Blayne, I am a mandatory reporter of child abuse, even if I just suspect it may be going on. This means that I am required by law to report any suspicions to the proper authorities.
At 19, you are at the cusp of adult, and with just one physical event, I think the call can be made reasonably not to involve outside assistance. Now that it is multiple events, things are different. And especially now that your brother at 17 [a minor, and clearly as such within my obligation to report] is involved and things are escalating, it is much different.
I know that this is not something you want to deal with directly, but you have to and I have to. Please email me at sara dot sasse at gmail dot com, or we can continue the conversation here in public if you prefer. However, I am very good at respecting your confidentiality and privacy, and you might want to do this offline.
Regardless of whether I hear from you by then, I will be contacting the people I must contact this morning. I wish you the very best, sweetheart. I know this absolutely, totally sucks, both the getting it and the having to deal with it part. I wish you had never been put in this situation.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
I think the police are an absolute necessity at the next incident of violence.
In Virginia, the only state I have experience with, any admission of violence by the perpetrator or physical evidence results in a must-arrest situation. It also results in a temporary order of protection that keeps the offender away.
Beyond the physical danger - which is very real - there are serious consequences to domestic abuse. Real damage is done every time you witness this, let alone actually experience it.
Others have given great advice about things you can do, and I won't comment on it directly. But please, no matter what promises are made, involve the police the next time there is any violence - if that seems to severe for you, then next time there is anything beyond a single slap.
These thinks can improve. I've seen it. But they can also get worse very quickly. It is possible in Virginia to get through one "conviction" of domestic assault and battery without a permanent record. I have no idea if such programs exist in Canada.
But your family has endured this long enough, regardless.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I need to lock this thread for the time being. There hasn't been a problem with the conversation, and it may continue in another thread. Thanks for understanding.
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