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I must confess I am just SLIGHTLY pleased that my comments were good enough to be confused as Dagonee's words. Now that my prideful side is kicking in I will complain that you did not read the author text of the post and jab that you are so self absorbed you read my words and are already formulating a response before you read them in their entirety, its something my younger brothers does in conversation and it drives me nuts!
quote:How can one converse in dialogue on a medium such as this. We exchange soliloquies and, when it works, it feels like dialogue. But then, that is life isn't it? John Updike said "We all feel so curiously alone, but it's important to keep making signals through the glass."
"People who quote other people either cannot think for themselves, or have nothing interesting to say."
Joking aside, you quote just a titch too much imo, and when you are not quoting it seems you are trying to say things that are worthy of being quoted.
TBH I actually care more about what you think about specific things I have said, rather than your general emotions at the moment or how articulately you can present them.
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"You *do* realize that no one around here *cares* enough to hate you, right? " Apathy is a form of hatred, perhaps a mild one, perhaps the worst.
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"We are not your audience." Oh yes, you are, and I yours. The bond between an actor and an audience is the only true bond of acquaintance. There is only one other bond, irrational and glorious, heartbreaking and life affirming, and that is love and I do not think it can be bred except face to face.
The question is not whether we are prideful, but whether we take equal pride in others. Few do, but that is the goal.
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quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: Dagonee, would that I were Bostonian, that might give me some hope. I am seventeen and from a back water town of a million people and far less influence, and I often, daily, feel as though these obstacles are insurmountable.
Pelegius, On this forum, you are but a name. Nobody knows your gender, your age, your hometown, your local influence (or lack thereof). You could be making it all up. The only thing we have to get to know you by are your words. What you have to say and how you say it are the yardsticks of this type of dialogue.
You've been found lacking. People here want you to succeed. We've been lining up to give you helpful advice (and ok, a dose of ridicule as well). Some of it you've even started to heed. Your last post that I quoted was much more readable than your first several topics.
Just take a big slice of humble pie--and enjoy it. We're all human here, you included. Everyone has made mistakes, gotten angry, been wrong, and held opinions that they've changed. No one will look down on you for changing your mind, missing a word, or just plain admitting you were wrong.
It's not one of those bully boards where he who shouts the loudest, pwnz another, makes the wittiest comments to make others feel stupid, and never backs down is somehow king of the hill.
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I agree that apathy can be worse than hatred... that's why I'm trying to point out to you that you are inspiring it, and not hatred.
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"'everyone else (complete with their own styles and foibles) seems to have no trouble with this form of halted dialogue?'If we say that we are free from trouble, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not within us."
If my point were not valid, then your oddly lyrical response might be. As the rest of us do not seem to have any difficulty communicating with each other (at least on some level) then I stand by what I said.
BlackBlade, I agree. To be honest I would care more about someone telling me how they caught a frog in their back yard today than I would if they started rambling off quites from Aristotle...
Quotes can be useful backing just as references are useful when you don't want to re-demonstrate a complicated/researched point, but they also serve to de-humanize your writing. Keeping in mind that I am a HUGE fan of quotes in general, they do detract from expressing really what YOU feel and who YOU are...
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quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: Soliloquies, too, are a form of communication between an actor and an audience.
And thus we see how Pelegius really views himself and Hatrack: he is the Shakespearean actor, and we are the passive recipients of his flowery and archaic language.
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I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings on this thread, Pelegius, even though I think you acted immaturely.
Your writing is just such so target-rich and chock-full of absurd references, it crys out to be parodied. Dude, c'mon, volcanoes, foxes and wolf-packs? Because you've been criticised? What's next, newts and meteorites?
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Pel, though I recognize the incidents you refer to...I'm not sure what Savanarola has to do with anything. I'm also at a loss as to why my query about Liberal strands within the theology is "offensive". Break it down for me.
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Pelegius: It bothers me that you have deemed my comments to be either unfit to respond to, or that you have found them to be pointedly true and therefore would have to admit defeat by responding to them (that or say something you know to be stupid).
Ill continue to respond to your posts in the future, but do not expect me to expend effort to try to help you understand what you might try in order to enjoy your experience in this forum.
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The play of life can be most exciting and feel most real, but it is a play. The greatest, funniest, most tragic and most uplifting play ever. And, as Whitman says, we may contribute a verse. What an awesome responsibility in itself.
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quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: "We are not your audience." Oh yes, you are, and I yours. The bond between an actor and an audience is the only true bond of acquaintance.
Some of us try very hard to be genuine. To us, calling us "actors" is a bit insulting. Calling us your "audience" just sounds condecending and not a bit profound.
quote:There is only one other bond, irrational and glorious, heartbreaking and life affirming, and that is love and I do not think it can be bred except face to face.
Oh how little you know about love. There are a handful of Hatrackers I genuinely love though I've never met them face to face, and those I have met face to face what love I have for them was already there before I met them and was only reinforced in the meeting. But that begs a question of definitions of what you mean by "love" and I'm sure that's a whole 'nother discussion.
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"I'm also at a loss as to why my query about Liberal strands within the theology is "offensive"." It wasn't to me, to me it was beautiful.
"and who YOU are." I am nobody, who are you? BlackBlade, that will have to do for now, at least while I think. I am afraid even my mind is too clouded now.
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"To us, calling us "actors" is a bit insulting. Calling us your "audience" just sounds condecending and not a bit profound. " I am sorry you choose to read my words that way, it was not my intent. You too, Jon Boy.
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Pelegius, I'm not going to debate whether life is a play with you. I will suggest, however, that even if it is a play, you might enjoy it more if you treated it as if it weren't.
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quote:I am sorry you choose to read my words that way, it was not my intent.
I don't know another way to read them. To make the word "actor" equivalent to "real life human being" is to destroy the word entirely. What many of us are trying to show you is that abstraction and metaphor only serve you well to a point. Beyond that point they prohibit you from genuine intimacy and genuine humanity, not to mention bastardizing the language beyond all utility.
And now you know that your words can honestly be taken in a way that you did not intend. If genuine communication is your goal, then why not rephrase your point and at least attempt to be understood by those still willing to listen?
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quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: "I'm also at a loss as to why my query about Liberal strands within the theology is "offensive"." It wasn't to me, to me it was beautiful.
"and who YOU are." I am nobody, who are you? BlackBlade, that will have to do for now, at least while I think. I am afraid even my mind is too clouded now.
I confess I am alittle confused, where in that comment are you responding to anything I have said in these last 2 pages to you? If your mind is too clouded, well thats fine, go take a nap, realize ultimately none of us are going to come over and find you in RL, at least I wont when you come back to the forum try to believe that none of us here are out for your blood, and we would actually like to discuss topics with you, not discuss you as a topic.
By "find you" I mean, find you and do terrible things the likes of which have never been done before.
Ah, okay. Re-reading the previous response I understand your point...though it would have been easier (and less ambiguous) to state you agree with my assertion and then dive into a historical example/justification/kindred spirit.
I find it odd that someone who is a self-described postmodernist (a self-designation that is odd in and of itself - most postmodernists are labeled as such by others) would have such a smattering of Liberal currents running through their theology. Many aspects of Liberalism are almost inextricably bound up with Modernism. At the very least I would imagine Post-Structuralists would take issue with your opening post.
BlackBlade: I think Pel missed a line break, it seems that there are three different responses to three different people in there.
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quote: “Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player That struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more. It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.” I would dispute MacBeth’s idea that life signifies nothing, but it is both unquestionably brief and often reminiscent of a bad actor performing, although, in fairness, he is forced to improvise, having never been given a script. Marcus Aurelius offers an alternative view of life, one which I believe to be more accurate in his Te eis heauton:
quote:Empty pomp; stage plays; flocks of sheep and herds of cows; mock battles; a bone flung to lap-dogs; a breadcrumb tossed into a fishpond; the ceaseless toil of ants bearing their burdens; the flight of frightened mice; puppets dancing on their strings — such is life. Your job is to take pleasure amidst it all with a mild manner and without condescension. Bear in mind that the measure of a man is the worth of the things he cares about.
From a previous thread of mine about theology.
I became a postmoderist out of a desire to revisit the past, not to reject it as th modernists did, and yet modernism is part of that past. This a simple view of but one aspect of my philosophy, and I would be weary of giving it too much weight.
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I will also admit that the post in which I did both of those is filled with typos. I am sorry if I come across as being to stiff, I do believe that I have a sense of humor (my favority Hatrack tradition is the dobie, and I seem to recall having made one or two myself.)
Posts: 1332 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: Pelegius, I'm not going to debate whether life is a play with you. I will suggest, however, that even if it is a play, you might enjoy it more if you treated it as if it weren't.
:::Applauds::: "Why some men are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrown upon them... and thus the whirligig of time brings in his revenges."
I once again recomment "Poetics" by Aristotle as ample proof that most people know nothing about communicating (I know I don't).
Edit: despite my usage above, just because Shakespeare wrote it doesn't make it proof of anything. The way you engage WITH the soliloquoy is the contact point. A soliloquoy in an empty hall is fine, but then you're not a player in the "game of life" if you'd like. Your stage, Pel, is emptying. Soon it will be minus one more.
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Pelegious, please tell me you're 15. I can at least comprehend this if you're fresh-faced and full of angst, the world (and your damned 3rd period Lit teacher) out to get you.
Otherwise, I'm just baffled. You certainly seem to take this entirely too seriously. Maybe get a little fresh air, take up a hobby? It's just the Internet.
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I'm currently leaning toward the theory of this being a s/n for some longer-term member who is having us on.
It's all in what Pel has chosen NOT to respond to.
This would be too ingenious. I mean, the execution of this kind of plot would require quite a bit of concentration. It hard to be ignorant.
But who could it be? Speculations abound!!! It definetly isn't Blayne, unless Blayne was some kind of pretense to Pelegius, because you just don't get one from the other.
Dag could pull this off, but why would he? I could certainly be the culprit, and I have the motive (boredom), but not the time for it.
It could be YOU Bob. Or it could be Tom Davidson. That would be delicious... And Tom has not factored heavily in these threads (not that I recall).
I think it may be either Puppy, or OSC. I mean, maybe this is just a grand experiment in preparation for the new Ender books? Pelegius is the latter day, angry teenage son of Demosthenes? It might be some kind of character study.
Here would be the ultimate irony. Its Papa Janitor, sabotaging his own board out of boredome and a secret desire for self-destruction.
In fact, it could be StarLisa, and that whole discussion could be a subtle faint to make it appear that they are seperate people.
Watch your neighbors. Any one of us might be Pelegius!!!
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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We must approach this scientifically. We all know witches float in water. What else floats in water?
Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003
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Only after most people will already have lost interest. They sink at first and stay down a day or two usually.
Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
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The floating "problem" might be easily overcome by judicious use of heavy chains and concrete. Or maybe I've just watched too many "mafia" movies. Posts: 1154 | Registered: Oct 2005
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