posted
I was going to mention the dopamine issue, but I see that it's already been addressed.
The other thing I wanted to mention is that in males, ejaculation and orgasm are not always co-requisites, which is a distinction I haven't seen anyone draw in this thread yet.
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I suppose I will just say that there are a lot of things my personal experience that make many of the "this is the way it is" posts in this thread soooo incredibly funny.
But I have to leave it that, because this thread is, in places, already dancing on the edge of not-so-family-friendly.
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posted
I think the thread has been explicit enough that if the house shakes, your partner ends up with bloody nailmarks on his back, and you see waves crashing every time you have sex, you can say so.
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quote:I think the thread has been explicit enough that if the house shakes, your partner ends up with bloody nailmarks on his back, and you see waves crashing every time you have sex, you can say so.
At this point, all the women should procure their hot, steamy anecdotes, filled with euphemisms for "penis." Then pH can change the title of the thread to Passion in the Fiery Distance, and we can sell the thread as a romance novel.
posted
I know. But it's a question of degree, ya know? What's a little naughty from some people would be downright shocking from others.
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posted
I'm afraid what I did post would not live up to what it sounds like I might have posted. I'll remember that, though, and be careful. Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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I think the worst I've had is feeling like my neck was going to snap. Mispositioned my head at a bad time.
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posted
That we are not sharing any explicit stories, and that we are sharing personal experience at all only insofar as it relates to the discussion at hand, which is about social perceptions. Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Back to the original subject of the thread:
I think that tougher punishments for women guilty of adultry are a natural consequence of the practice of property being handed down from parents to their (legitimate) children.
This is a very important social institution, and if it breaks down, it causes a lot of chaos.
If a man strays and fathers children, it doesn't make much of a difference for peaceful inheritance, since bastard children don't inherit anything.
But if a woman strays and this is known, then her children's inheritance is in doubt. Wars have been fought because a prince's paternity is in doubt because of his mother's affairs.
It's not fair, but infidelity by women had much more severe potential problems than similar infidelity by men, so it made a certain kind of sense for the punishment to be worse for women than for men.
quote:since bastard children don't inherit anything.
I'll have to ask Dag to confirm this, but I'm almost positive this varies from state to state: I don't think California, for example, recognizes the concept of bastardry.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Again, the reason why stricter punishments on women for adultery don't make sense to me is BECAUSE of the nature of property laws. We punish those who take things unlawfully from us. We don't punish the things that are taken.
posted
I also think some of the reasoning lay with the view that virginity was a commodity.
This attitude meant that a woman's sexuality (or the act of sex) was valuable while a man's was not: so the only harm done in adultery etc was the harm to the woman's virtue/the property of that women's virtue.
While a lot of that is related to inheritance of property, I think it goes further than that to the more underlying view of women as property.
For example, there's no reason inheritance-wise why a woman would have to be a virgin before marriage (any children born before would be illegitimate and unable to inherit).
Ack. My post is worded badly but my brain won't fix it.
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:For example, there's no reason inheritance-wise why a woman would have to be a virgin before marriage (any children born before would be illegitimate and unable to inherit).
That's not true. If a woman was known to have a lover up to the marriage, and then had a honeymoon baby, that child's paternity would be in serious doubt. And potentially being the eldest child, that could cause serious problems.
Just the fact that she had taken a lover before marriage would raise doubts as to her children's paternity. After all, some people would reason, if she took a lover before, she's likely to have done it again.
After all, it's not the fact that the child is legitimate that was important -- it was the belief that the child was legitimate. As long as everybody believed it was legitimate, there weren't problems. But if people thought it very will might be a bastard, then there were potential problems.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Porter, I hadn't thought of the whole "honeymoon" baby thing.
As regards to the taken a lover before more likely to take again I would suggest this attitude [Edit: and the censorious approach to such behavior] is linked more to a direct value placed on a woman's chastity and fidelity (as a object, not an attribute) rather than inheritance issues.
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posted
I wonder, though, could viewing a woman's chastity and fidelity as objects have grown out of inheritance issues? Which cultural concept came first?
I assume most people believe these days that societies started out more matriarchal and only became patriarchal as it was "discovered" that sex with a man is the only way to start the reproductive process.
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quote:Which is why matrilineal inheritance makes so much more sense.
Actually, I'm not convinced people should have the right to pass their estates down to their children at all. But I agree that matrilineal inheritance would have removed a lot of problems.
But then, there society needs to have some method of distributing the wealth of the deceased. I suppose that the children have as much innate right to it (none) as anybody else.
Beverly -- I doubt there has ever been a society of what we would consider humans that didn't already know how babies are made.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Actually, there's a tribe in New Guinea that for a time (up till the late 19th century, I believe) appeared to be ignorant of just that. I wish I could remember the name. However, there's no way to determine for sure what they believed, since the tribe has become "modernised."
EDIT: And the debate also entends to a particular group of Australian aborigines.
I'm really sorry I don't have details, we covered this in class on Tuesday but I was not paying close attention.
Posts: 2849 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
(to Porter) Well, you and I believe that to be the case, certainly. But I have heard the idea put forward many times that the worship of the divine feminine began during a time when the connection between sex and birth was not understood, and that when the connection became clear, things moved more towards a patriarchal society. Maybe I'm wrong, though.
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posted
I don't see why it's certain that I would believe that. At least, not on religious grounds.
I just have a hard time believing that a society of people that are sentient would realize that babies come from sex.
But the, Eaquae, I've been wrong before. The fact that I can't imagine something doesn't keep it from being true.
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