The only rule I think there is is communicating, interacting with the audience. That is what every composer does who is successful (yeah, even Wagner... and I agree he was a rat, probably my least liked composer, even though I agree he was a genius too).
I just pulled out my Charles Burkhart anthology. Haven't cracked this thing open for 5 years...
I think that the ultimate broken rule was Debussy's La cathedrale engloutie (Sunken Cathedral) from Preludes, Book I. Is there any other song with more in-your-face parallel 5ths? Yet it works because the 5ths actually convey the message of a sunken cathedral... gives me chills just thinking about it. Or maybe it is because it is cold and I'm leaning on the portable heater .
If this is a wrestling match, that is my first move for Debussy.
Oh, and about Dvorak. He is good too. I've only listened to his 9th symphony and Serenade for Strings though (but I've listened to them both probably 1000 times). I have a hard time comparing him with Bach. The 9th symphony was suppose to be about America and I think it was very effective. Well, I don't know much of the history or how it was accepted. But I have a warm place in me because it was written for America, in a way the first classical song about my country.
Oh, and I totally relate to OSC's opinion of literature professors. I am still friends with my old music professors. They are very skilled and effective at what they do. I just don't think it is worth doing.
As far as writing an atonal piece for the masses. Just go to a horror movie! Really though, I don't think it can be done because even if you wrote a very consonant atonal work (used nothing but major and minor chords and scales) it lacks the familiarity that everyone has with I-IV-V-I. The 2 worlds of pop and intelectual music has never been farther apart. I just don't see them coming together.
I would say that successful comtemporary composers who appeal to the masses include Philip Glass, John Adams, and John Cage.
Anyone heard Morro Lasso by Gesualdo? I can't believe that song was written in the 16th century. I think he was way ahead of his time and that we still haven't plumbed some of the stuff he wrote in Morro Lasso.
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One of my favorite pieces of music that had extended atonal passages was the soundtrack to Close Encounters of the Third Kind. I was a strange kid in 1977. I was only 8 years old and I would listen to that record over and over and over.
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Human, as for your doubts on the atonal masterpiece, you -may- be right, but you might be completely wrong. All that will be required is the perspective of time. This is like asking bach what he thinks of debussy the first time he listened to anything by Debussy (of course we will never know what he might say). But my point is that as we become more removed and more atuned to the atonal structure it WILL become more well known, and might or might not be revolutionized by some future genius.
As to parallel fifths, this is a back and forth argument, paralells were used extensively in pre renessaince music, but they are inherently problematic because the obscure the tonic/dominant relationships and weaken the tonality of a peice. However there is such a thing, even in tonal music, as a compositional direct fifth, even a rare parallel is possible in the right circumstance. Atonality (or we should refer to it as non-tonality because atonal is reactionary...w/e), does not have this problem because tonic dominant relationships are not at issue in the same vital way.
Still though, there are absolute standards in music. Is there a reason why pentatonic scales came into use independently on every continent? There probably is. As for diatonic music, the equal system of temprament is ALREADY a violation of the natural harmonic series of overtones, so what is to be said for this system built on something of a foundation which is already false in some ways. At the same time, just tuning is a betrayal of the potential in diatonic music of being so incredibly versatile and changing. Equal temprament is a leap forward in thinking about music, but it is also a small, nagging little inconsistency in tonal music.
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Hey you music bozos!--Remember that parallel fifths were "prohibited" in first year music thoery class. If you passed that course, you have official Boogashaga authorization to utilize them, understood? Just don't go over the wall with them, unless (of course) you have a "reason" for so doing, which YOU as the artist will decide.
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quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: At the same time, just tuning is a betrayal of the potential in diatonic music of being so incredibly versatile and changing. Equal temprament is a leap forward in thinking about music, but it is also a small, nagging little inconsistency in tonal music.
Have you gone to any youth concerts lately? Tuning is not overrated... Posts: 1209 | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:Originally posted by boogashaga: Hey you music bozos!--Remember that parallel fifths were "prohibited" in first year music thoery class. If you passed that course, you have official Boogashaga authorization to utilize them, understood? Just don't go over the wall with them, unless (of course) you have a "reason" for so doing, which YOU as the artist will decide.
Can you represent your name in music notation, and use it as the theme for a fugue performed by a kazoo quartet? If not, you do not have permission to allow others to break the parallel perfects rule. Posts: 1209 | Registered: Dec 2003
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I know PP5ths are prohibited, but I am in 3rd year music, so I get the seal of approval, and the go ahead to break alot of different rules.
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Well, I actually find that causual breaking of the rule actually sounds bad in my ears, so even though I went one year into grad school, I still think the PP rule is worth obeying. But I'm not writing music currently, it isn't like I've got much to say. This forum has actually gotten me to fire up my music apps several times and go and pound on the piano. I'm even thinking about writing music again.
My problem is that I've picked up other hobbies and now they all compete. So I don't know how I'll fit in time to write much music. Posts: 1209 | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: At the same time, just tuning is a betrayal of the potential in diatonic music of being so incredibly versatile and changing. Equal temprament is a leap forward in thinking about music, but it is also a small, nagging little inconsistency in tonal music.
Have you gone to any youth concerts lately? Tuning is not overrated...
Your right, but our terminology got mangled. JUST tuning as I use it refers to the system of tuning that follows the natural series of overtones. There's lots of different jargon for this stuff, what do you use?
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I knew what you meant. I was just being funny.
I don't know what I think about tuning. I believe I am so use to equal temprament that I can't live without it. But when I was a senior/1st year grad (can't remember) I did some experiments in music history on a keyboad to see what the effects were like and I think I liked the overtone way of tuning more. I even went and learned which equal tempered notes were wrong... can't remember any of it now though.
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Their ALL wrong. The third too wide, the 5th too narrow, i really notice it these days, playing alot of keyboard. My musicianship classes force me to sing lines in counterpoint against the keyboard, you REALLY start to notice the adjustments you make in equal temprament this way. Its actually quite jarring to sing a scale up to la or le correctly, then play the flat sounding note on the keyboard, it really is a big difference between a just sixth and an equal tempered sixth
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All this discussion has made me think about how much our perception of what sounds good, what constitutes beautiful music, has changed over time. Think of how different the modal harmonies and mensuration of the Middle Ages and early Renaissance are from the keys, scales and measures of later times. In the Renaissance, composers believed the fourth to be a stable, consonant interval, while thirds and sixths were seen as dissonances— totally opposite our present view. Listening to Guillaume Du Fay or Josquin des Prez is a VERY different experience than enjoying Bach, Beethoven or Debussy.
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And here is an interesting tidbit. I heard on the radio last week that because symphony orchestras are bigger and perform in larger places, symphonies changed. They are sharper, slower, and louder. I can't remember if the louder one is right anyway.
So basically, when Beethoven's 9th symphony was performed the first time, it was faster and lower in pitch than we hear it today.
Not that this is really significant, but it shows how things change in ways that we wouldn't even think about. That is to say, that the surounding enviroment can't be ignored in music.
And I would say social environment makes a difference too. Operas were the "movies" of older generations who were middle class, but now Operas are reserved for the high class. Of course the definition of middle class has changed over the years, but I think my idea still works.
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Yes Human, absolutely its impossible to know what anything REALLY sounded like in past ages. I think your right that stuff is a bit slower and a bit higher. Some stuff is just natural evolution in the technology we used ie: the steel piano harp allows for a bigger fuller brighter sound, which can now be pitched slightly Higher.
I notice the difference in alot of other ways from what I read in historical accounts. For instance, our concert venues are now heat controlled, whereas the 9th symphony was first performed in a tiny and freezing hall. The effect is obvious, a big hall flattens out the pitch a little bit, so we compensate by ratcheting it up just a bit, plus the heat control allows us to tune more precisely to fit our comfort and keep our instruments tuned.
Its absolutely fascinating to me, and I see it as a -bit- silly when modern composers scream about our need to abandon traditional forms of expression, or some "highbrow" art crowd poopoos any departure from that tradition. The truth is as always in the middle of the two. We can have the best of any world if we work hard enough at it. I think if a better cello comes along, Beethoven would be ok with you using that one instead, he was not much of a traditionalist himself!
Ps. Looks like this thread has been abandoned by the greater community, oh well whats new?
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And David, I listened to "Murex Tapestries Trampled Underfoot" and I have to wonder if that melody is the 1st Delphic Hymn. I'm positive it is because I set it to music once too...
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quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: Its absolutely fascinating to me, and I see it as a -bit- silly when modern composers scream about our need to abandon traditional forms of expression, or some "highbrow" art crowd poopoos any departure from that tradition.
I can see where they are coming from. It is cool to do things old like. But music is a living thing. And I realized one huge thing as a senior for my clarinet piece I linked to earlier. If the performer tried to perform it like I heard it in my head, it would have been lame-o. Well, that wasn't how I thought it then. I thought I had come up with a new concept and I even wrote on the back of my piece something like "to play this piece correctly, you have to own the song and make it your own; if there is something you don't like, you should change it."
Now I think I was a bit nuts. But the idea was good and I know that now because I've had several years to try it out. A performer needs to "connect" with the music and the audience. This is what I called "interact" earlier.
And as far as performing old music. Well, if performing it exactly like the "world premier" means you will connect with your audience, go for it. But most likely, it wont be because audience expectations change.
And one of the best things I heard about music is that it is all about building expectations in the listener. It is all about the preparation.
Edit: (it is understood the deliverance will happen, but so many people get focused on the deliverance, they miss the preperation entirely.)
And I should pay more attention to what I know. If I had actually thought of some of this stuff last time I was writing a song, it would have been easier...
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David, in "Under the Bodhi Tree (Buddha Versus Mara)" you have a planged guitar. How did you do that in GarageBand?
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Human, you must have been listening to a lot of Stravinsky in your senior year, the end of mov three is kind of "stravinskyesk" I suppose. Also your harmonic texture has a little bit of stravinsky and George Antheil sounding stuff going on. I like it.
Recently I have been putting together a couple of things like this: a guitar quartet with violin and a double concerto for clarinet. The Double concerto is WAY to ambitious, but fun to contemplate, as for the guitar, nobody likes guitar ensembles except for guitarists and the girls who know us in the department. People get this glassy haze in their eyes when you say "bach organ chorale, for guitars!"
A yes, connect to your audience, so few performer/composers even try in my experience. The great ones do, but I spend a huge amount of my time around "student composers." Alot of our work (I hope not mine...) comes out sounding likeL:
"Ok, I got the theme there, arpegiate arpegiate, I gotta do the variation on the dominant... ok, now I need a neapolitan 6, ok now I should put a chromatiscism somewhere.... how many measures is that...8. Ok"
And you can imagine the appeal that comes from work they care about so much. I wonder if I have a right to feel insulted by it. Probably not.
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quote:Human, you must have been listening to a lot of Stravinsky in your senior year, the end of mov three is kind of "stravinskyesk" I suppose. Also your harmonic texture has a little bit of stravinsky and George Antheil sounding stuff going on. I like it.
In my senior conducting class we had to do Dumbarton Oaks by Stravinsky. And I've always like Rite of Spring. Really though, it is all 12 tone. sorta.... 12 tone with my own rules....
Oh, and I wrote that 3rd movement in my junior year. I haven't digitized my senior or 1st year grad compositions. They were both atonal and I never did like them much.
Actually, the last part of the 3rd mvt has more to do with Debussy's La Mer as I shamelessly used a few things from it (really, very few... few few few...).
quote:And you can imagine the appeal that comes from work they care about so much. I wonder if I have a right to feel insulted by it. Probably not.
People that think they have written the next greatest thing on earth is always a bit annoying: "This is going to prove I'm a genius like Beethoven!" But I did it once too, so I can't really complain.
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quote:And David, I listened to "Murex Tapestries Trampled Underfoot" and I have to wonder if that melody is the 1st Delphic Hymn. I'm positive it is because I set it to music once too...
Wow! Someone who recognized that. Yep, dude, it is. You did that too? Great minds and all that jazz... it's so hard to find long pieces of ancient music notated in a way that a guy like me can read.
quote:David, in "Under the Bodhi Tree (Buddha Versus Mara)" you have a planged guitar. How did you do that in GarageBand?
I used the "Steel String Acoustic" midi instrument, played the measure on my keyboard, selected all the notes and changed their velocity to 125 (the highest setting). Cool sound, eh?
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Anybody ever listen to the long string instrument. The inventor came to talk in front of one of my music classes today.
Its an instrument with 25 meter long strings that are all tuned to just harmonics, and her peices are all written as fractions. She played it by walking back and forth and dragginger the strings inbetween her finers, or running her hands along them, or lifting them. Its insane sounding, very cool.
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quote:I used the "Steel String Acoustic" midi instrument, played the measure on my keyboard, selected all the notes and changed their velocity to 125 (the highest setting). Cool sound, eh?
quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: Anybody ever listen to the long string instrument. The inventor came to talk in front of one of my music classes today.
Its an instrument with 25 meter long strings that are all tuned to just harmonics, and her peices are all written as fractions. She played it by walking back and forth and dragginger the strings inbetween her finers, or running her hands along them, or lifting them. Its insane sounding, very cool.
Never heard of it.
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I don't think I've ever seen human post this much in one thread, let alone this many times so quickly. Music is obviously his muse
I was going to post here but then it got all technical and scared me away. I play the sax, and fiddle around with the violin (hahahhah!) and the bagpipe chanter every now and then when I have free time, but never seriously. I've played the sax since 5th grade, so, for 11 years now, and still pull it out every now and then just to make sure I still can.
I try to work on my own music but just don't really have the ear for it. I've been trying to get around to writing a musical for years now, and actually made some headway on it earlier this year. Sadly, I can't really write music though. I got some help, as Raia and human 2.0 can attest to, but still stalled myself out. Plus I think I suck at coming up with melodies in general, to say nothing of the words in the songs.
I was always hoping the plot would make up for any musical shortcomings. I'm a much better script writer than music writer. If I ever make any progress on it, I'll let you all in on it someday. I can only hope.
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Human, did you mean "planged" or "flanged"? You can add flange to guitars easily. You select the instrument (double clicking on the track) and under "details" you'll see "effects". There you can add chorus, flanger, etc.
With "planged" I thought you meant the plangent or plucked sound of the acoustic.
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Lyrhawn, go down to your local university bookstore and take a look at some of the music theory literature. It would be really daunting for you, but if you have a mind to get some of this stuff, and a few beats a day to practice at a keyboard and write a few things, check out Walter Piston's Harmony, its the gold standard in undergrad diatonic theory, very very clear and precise book. You might also benefit from a book on performance with an emphasis on learning rythms. Sadly it just takes alot of banging your head against the keyboard for a couple of years till things start to click for you... ITs taken me two years of undergrad theory to feel confident in writing for a small ensemble! Good luck, I can always give you more resources if you have an interest.
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Lyrhawn might benefit from learning more of a "chordal" method rather than Piston, especially if a Broadway-type musical is the endeavor. When Mel Brooks wrote the songs for "The Producers," he didn't utilize much theory. He had, basically, just sort of lead sheets and scribbled ideas. Melody & chords (as in a lead sheet), would be a great way to get the song ideas down in a written format. This way, the material doesn't fade into oblivion. This way, you can come back to the stuff later and work with it.
Later, after everything has more or less "gelled" into shape and the musical looks sort of like its complete, the actual "theory" can be used for the orchestrations & arrangements.
I enjoy doing things like roadshows and musicals. They are always fun for me. It can be a challenge sometimes to try to get that special song to tie two scenes together or to emphasize the dialogue that has just taken place.
Good luck and keep us informed!
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Yeah, you could do a musical that way, I was more interested in his learning the later part of the process as well, actually getting to take care of the details.
There have incidentally been many problems with composers of late who compose on sythesizers/ computers/ whatever, then having their work arranged by proffessionals. These professionals can then claim primacy over the work they helped produced upon the composer's death. There have been a few famous cases here in California, it just came up in one of my history classes last week, so it occured to me as a reason to stay in touch with the whole process too.
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That's a whole heck of a lot more work than I was ever planning to do, but I suppose I'll just have to dig in and do it at some point. Mostly now whenever I think of a melody to go along with lyrics I've writen I record myself singing it just to get it down, then get help transcribing it into notation later.
I was always hoping to focus more on the writing of the story while letting someone else get into the guts of the music after I'd given them the basics of what I wanted with each song. It'd hard to keep a train of thought musically when I tend to shelve it for weeks at a time before returning to it.
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There's no cure for that I'm afraid. And I feel for you, not everyone can be as self indulgently committed to pointless composing as a student without a job!!
Still, more and more I feel that the theory and history side of my studies prepares me in a big way for understanding the music I play, and thus understanding and helping facilitate the music I write. It can be basic stuff like form, "rules" of harmony, knowledge about what works in other pieces in terms of rythm, ensemble, content and yes, even story too.
I just finished a GRUELING ten page paper on California Minimalism in the work of Terry Riley. Specifically on a piece he did for NASA which my chorus performed here with the Kronos Quartet last quarter. I would never ever have been prepared to understand this peice when I performed it, but with 6 more months of perspective and experience gained, I was able to sift through the minutae of the piece and come up with -hopefully- relevant material for my professor. Its a tough proposition to say that the only way you can get what you want is to devote yourself to it exclusively for as long as it takes, but I am afraid that if I don't, I never will achieve anything. As it is I wonder if I have what "it takes" as they say. I guess I'll be letting you know.
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Lyrhawn--Everytime I do something like creating songs for a musical/roadshow/pop singer, etc., I use the "lead sheet style" of doing it. If you can record yourself singing the stuff, you are already ahead of the game since you have a way to "save" what you have in mind for a particular number. Go for it!
Orincoro--When you write that you " . . . wonder if (you) have what 'it takes,' as they say . . . ," what exactly are you refering to, sir? Is this refering to your ability to analyze material? Does it mean as a composer? Does it call into question your composing? When you wrote that line, you completely lost me.
It appears to me that you ALREADY have "it." You are able to communicate in a written format (and in quite an understandable manner, I might add) your feelings, thoughts, and methods of study. I just don't quite catch your drift here, that is all. Can you help me to understand what you mean?
Have a great Sunday. I'm off to my three hour block.
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Oh it. How I strive for it. I would give myself over to "it." What is it? I am not sure.
"IT" is a sparkling shiney ideal, a goal perhaps, a state of higher being.
I think it is something like what I see in the people I most admire in music. Maybe, it for me is the ability to fully express my thoughts in words and music. It is also the ability to perform in such a way as to feel I am not awfully lacking in some undefined way.
Sometimes on stage or in class or recital listening to someone read my words or play my piece, I feel it. But I would like to be constantly basking in the soft ambient glow of "it."
I know I don't have it when I can't answer a question I know I should. Sing line I ought to be able to sing, or commit my thoughts as accurately as I want to onto a score or a line of text. Well, "it" is something I know is probably a figment of my own drowning subconcious, a carrot dangling in front of my inner mamallian brain telling me "provide for yourself" "beat the other guy" "get the girl" etc. But where I am concerned with more ambiguous goals. I can't be clear on "it" because its not very clear to me either.
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quote:Originally posted by David Bowles: Human, did you mean "planged" or "flanged"? You can add flange to guitars easily. You select the instrument (double clicking on the track) and under "details" you'll see "effects". There you can add chorus, flanger, etc.
With "planged" I thought you meant the plangent or plucked sound of the acoustic.
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The daughter of a friend wanted me to do a special arrangement of a hymn for a choir that she was soon to become the director of. I came up with what I thought was a great arrangement, utilizing all of the vocal ranges that she explained these singers had. She told me that they all read music, there are very high sopranos and tenors, solid altos, and very deep basses. They numbered about 24 in the choir and all were very strong and powerfull singers also. In short, it was a sort of "dream" group to write for. Today, she told me that she had taken 3 weeks to teach them a simple Xmas song and not to worry about the arrangement anymore.
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Human--The arrangement was made of "I Need Thee Every Hour," at the specific request of the Choir Director. I started out with a minor key (Em) and utilized a sequence for the introduction that became the unifying motive for the whole selection. I put the basses down on a low E (below the staff). The altos started the "melody," such as it is. The sopranos entered 4 bars later. I sort of basically rewrote the entire hymn for the first two verses. I have lots of alternate harmonies and mixed them with semi-traditional cadences.
The first verse "sort of" follows what the "melody" in the original hymn is like. I mean that you can tell where it came from (sort of). The end of the first verse somehow modulates to D minor. The second verse is much more "free-form" and does not conform to the hymn at all. I drift between chords of Dm, Em, Dm, and C. The "chorus" portion of verse two contains a spread out cluster formation that I enjoy using (I know that this seems to be a contradiction, but i am not sure just how else to describe it). The third verse is more familiar as the main melody is actually sung--although by the bass section, very low (key of C). The upper voices are doing rhythmic patterns against the melody. After the hymn cadences at the end, I have placed a tag of the last phrase to end the arrangement. The basses are on a low C (below the staff), the tenors are on an E, and the altos and sopranos are together on (piano) middle C to round out the C major chord. While they are sustaining this final chord, the accompaniment is playing the motive/sequence that I mentioned earlier.
At this point, i don't know what I am going to do with the arrangement. It is not copied onto any chorus manuscipt yet to xerox for parts, so I just have my personal "junk" score that I worked on. A member of my Ward Choir suggested that i do it up "pretty" and send it to the So Cal Mormon Choir
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That sounds like something my hubby would love! He's a musician (majored in Trombone Performance, but now just performs on the side) and he's always arranging hymns in different ways - has kind of a "weird" style, although I love it.
But it definitely wouldn't work for our Ward Choir. *sigh* You ought to put it up at one of those sites that host that sort of thing ... unless you actually want to SELL it, of course.
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Cool. I did a weird style Oh My Father. At one point I had a section based on the melody, but in the whole-tone scale. And the climax had a bunch of arpegiated chords that changed keys every chord. And the second to last verse had an overly legato melody (in proper key) with a sharp 4th to 5th then minor 6th to 5th alternating background eigth note trill (can't think of a better word for it). The last verse was the regular hymn from the book at the insistance of my mom, the pianist... I performed it at a ward talent show and not a single person commented on it.
But they complimented my brother and me for a Janice Knapp Perry duet we sang at the same show... Don't know what that means...
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JennaDean--I majored in trombone performance also--I feel sorry for your husband (and you too I guess). I don't play anymore either. Last time I played the horn was at a Ward talent show several years ago where I played 76 Trombones (on one trombone, no less--I used to be VERY good, you see!).
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Yeah, you know what you do when a trombone player rings your doorbell, don't you? . . . . . . . Pay him for the pizza.
Hubby still gets to play in a local wind ensemble, and uses his music skills directing choirs and arranging hymns, but his day job is Computer Geek.
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Orincoro--I am one of those disgusting types who have the ability/skill to play many different instruments. I also had those classes back in college to learn most of the others. My main instruments would be the trombone and the piano. But I just got a cheap plastic harmonica at a Xmas dinner last evening and it made me want to go and dig out my real harmonica and see if I could still do stuff on it; I still could!
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Excellent Boogashaga, if I were ever to give up my guitar or piano, I would die silent spiritual death
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Orincoro--I did some work with the guitar. I kind of got into it seriously when a freshman at college. It was too far to the practise rooms in the music bldg. The guy just down the hall in the dorms had a truly great classical guitar that was given to him while he was a missionary for the "Mormon" church overseas somewhere. All that he used it for was for stuff like "Kum Bah Yah," & etc. He would let me play it almost whenever I wanted. When I went on a mission for the "Mormon" church myself later, I always seemed to be where there were guitars present. Reading the music was easy as I was already a musician (I have never got around to learning that "guitar style" of notating music--maybe in the future). My fingers just never got awfully good at doing some of the "easy" classical solos out there. I believe that to get any better than I was that I would have to start doing a bunch of finger drills to limber them up and get them used to the fretboard.
When I started playing the bass guitar, it was an easy switch. Playing the trombone and the piano, I was already familiar with the bass clef. Every now & then, I still find some bass guitar parts written in the treble clef. When I encounter them, it makes me work & think a tad more, but I can still handle them.
Have a great New Year's celebration!
Posts: 101 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
The real "Issue" I think with classical guitarists is a huge one.
We're so Freakin LAZY.
Guitarists are some of the worst musicians out there in large part. It has alot to do I think with the culture, ie, because every idiot can play Kum Bah Yah etc, everyone else assumes that if your a guitarist, that's what you "do." I have no end of requests for "Blackbird" and "Stairway," even among smart music students who would shreik with horror at the mention of "Heart and Soul" or some such garbage for piano. But with guitar its ok because "I know a few chords" is such a common saying!
That convinces most people that Guitar is the realm of the laidback stoner or the churchcamp counselor and little else. For those that take it a bit more seriously and are interested in the historical liuterature of the guitar, There are the deadly "Tabs".
tabs are fine for picking up a beatles song or learning a coldplay lick, but STAY AWAY all ye who enter upon music with any need of clarity, or proffessionalism or taste of any sort.
Then there is actual music notation, most of which for the guitar is bewilderingly dense, forboding, mysterious and beautifully gothic in likeness. This is my realm. but what I find is that most of the actual literature suffers from the same creative braindedness that the "Kum bah yah" crowd enjoys. That is, most of the great works are little more than exercises. Take Fernando Sor, one of my teachers once called him, a "First Rate, Third Rate composer." Its really true, no-one I think in the surviving romantic period literature is more obvious, by the numbers, predictable as sor, and the very best composers for guitar have learned all of his mistakes by rote.
Part of this is the difficulty of scoring improvisational material like flamenco, which is one of the great schools of classical guitar. In Flamenco, the guitarist is as much responsible for the music as the composer, probably more so. Piano music is notoriously clear and satisfyingly uniform in performance, (relatively. You could pick a huge bone with me about how "uniform" performance is not, but in comparison with guitar it really is.) but guitarists are lazy, pigheaded and rebellious little buggers, and we do what we like with the music we play, and there is very little sense of responsibility to the composer/songwriter given by most guitarists.
Well I try. There is no getting around the fact that just overcoming the technical challenges of even the early guitar literature is enough to stop most guitarists from getting to the really interesting stuff, and I am currently trying to earn my chops playing through the middle of the stack with the more challenging Sor and Giuliani, Dowland and the easy Bach stuff and I play in a guitar quartet. (Most of Guitar Quartet literature is either new music or bach arrangements).
So beware all you Kum bah Yahnikans! Guitar is tough, especially since we're all so darn lazy!
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Hey Orincoro--You can always play thetheme music to "Zorro," right? There's not much out there for trombone, either. I played part of a horn concerto and bassoon concerto for my recital. Oh well, there's always Tommy Dorsey.
Posts: 101 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Really though, I don't think it can be done because even if you wrote a very consonant atonal work (used nothing but major and minor chords and scales) it lacks the familiarity that everyone has with I-IV-V-I. The 2 worlds of pop and intelectual music has never been farther apart. I just don't see them coming together.
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