posted
A series CAN work well -- IF it's planned far enough in advance. Usually it stops being fresh once an author uses up the initial plotting. After that, he usually has a hard time improvising without being dragged under by the weight of all the existing characters and events.
I'm another person who's looking forward to OSC's stand-alone books. Magic Street is due out this year, isn't it?
Posts: 2911 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Fitz -- I liked Asimov's Foundation books -- I think his fourth one, Foundation's Edge, worked fine. I think of Asimov's series being somewhat of an exception to the series rule, because he kept moving the series forward in time and so the stories would be about new worlds and new characters. (Foundation and Earth, which followed Foundation's Edge, didn't work as well, because it was using leftover characters that were no longer fresh.)
Posts: 2911 | Registered: Aug 2001
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You're right, there are certainly exceptions to the rule. I didn't mean to make it sound like I thought no series could be excellent. Robin Hobb wrote a 6 book series which I enjoy very much (2 trilogies really, but about the same characters).
Posts: 1855 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I'll put in my two cents and say that I love Card's stand-alone novels. Enchantment, Pastwatch, Homebody, Treasure Box -- these books made me fall in love with OSC all over again.
Posts: 1002 | Registered: Feb 2005
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But are Hobb's books really a six-book series, or two three-book series? The characters had changed from the end of the third to the beginning of the fourth. I loved Zahn's Star Wars trilogy, but most of the other books in the series (admittedly by different authors, but same universe) were generally bad.
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My personal interpretation was that the two trilogies constituted a larger series. Many of the themes are the same, and relationships and history from the first trilogy play a large role in the second. Just the way I see it.
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Hart's Hope is a lovely book. It's my favorite, every word shapes the story with care few authors put into their work.
Posts: 5600 | Registered: Jul 2001
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I tried reading Hart's Hope once and got thrown by the randomness of it -- I couldn't figure out what sort of story it was, new characters kept getting introduced and I couldn't figure out what was going on, I think I got maybe 75 pages into it then put it down to come back to another time. (I sort of liked what I read, but it was just too random. Does it get less random further in?)
Posts: 2911 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Yeah. And I felt like that at first, but once it gets into the "little king's" story, it gets a lot less... weird. I, in fact, stopped reading it and when I came back to it I realized that I was just at the part where it started to make sense.
Posts: 4816 | Registered: Apr 2003
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I think it is natural for many people to like OSC's earlier work more than his later work. Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, and the Worthing Saga are scifi classics. To say that OSC's later books do not measure up to these fantastic books is not really an insult in anyway.
Having said that, I really enjoy the Women of Genesis series. The new Enderverse books are a bit worned out, but I'm still going to read all of them. Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Eh. I hated the Worthing Saga. I reject utterly the premise that suffering is necessary for happiness, or that complete, utter, and eternal bliss for all humanity is impossible.
Posts: 1364 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Which 6 Hobbs books are considered the same series? As far as I know, her three trilogies, Live Ships, Tawny Man, and Assassin, are all set in the same world but are independant series. I haven't read the tawny man, so it's probably that and assassin.
Marion Zimmer Bradley wrote a whole slew of books all set in the same universe - her Darkover novels. They're not a series, so no problems with dwindling plot lines. Other authors have likely done the same. I like that sort of thing - it doesn't have the same problems as a long series does.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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"If you compare the number of people who don't like Card's writing to the number of people in this thread that do, it's no wonder Kristine wonders if anyone would even care to meet him anymore."
I'm pretty sure that the reason she wonders about that is because of the people comparing him to nazis and saying he hates america, and not because some people prefer his older books.
You seem to think that anyone who disagrees with Card is being rude to him.
Posts: 739 | Registered: Dec 2003
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Danzig, I felt the same way before I read the book. I guess I found OSC's argument more persuasive than you did. Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
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In case there was any question, I did read Enchantment and Pastwatch, 3 times each actually and loved them both. Its just that after I read Shadow of the Hegemon, I realized that his new works were not for me. I suspected it when I read Ender's Shadow and Heartfire, but that book confirmed it.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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I would be disappointed. But if he did it because he was burned out, as Geoff indicated, then I would be glad he had stopped before doing the literary equivalent of jumping the shark. As with Seinfeld, better go out with people wanting more than go out after people have gotten tired of you.
As to OSC's early work versus his later works, I commented on the observed evolution of his style in this thread, on the other side of the forum.
Posts: 1346 | Registered: Jun 1999
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Ketch, I will. I loved Hart's Hope. See you tonight around 8:30. I'm over my minutes for the month already, so I think I'll just come over.
Olivia, the WoG books really are amazing. Sarah gave me same thrill of characters and wisdom and the world laid out for my exploration that Pastwatch and Ender's Game and Saints did.
Posts: 1163 | Registered: Jan 2005
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Tom: I meant mostly that his books seem to center more and more on emotions and thoughts, with action almost as an afterthought. It reminds me of that part in the movie Hero where they think out the whole battle before they actually fight it. Card's characters often seem to come to these elaborate conclusions in their heads, and then what actually happens is sort of anticlimactic. I find that exhausting.
But I agree. I don't see as much difference in the characters as I wish there was. In that way, Card kind of reminds me of Heinlein.
I'm curious: how much of Card's volume of writing is based on contract? Does he ever have to finish out a series, or even start a certain type of book, because the publisher is leaning on him? Does that happen to authors once they get a large readership?
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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My favorite Card books: Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, Treason, Hart's Hope, The Worthing Saga
My favorite used to be Speaker, but I think it might be Hart's Hope now, because I have come to hold use of language more important in the past year or so. It's just such a beautifully constructed milieu. I think if Card wrote more milieu stories I would be a lot happier with his recent body of work. As it is, it just feels like he's lost interest. The characters aren't themselves anymore, if that makes sense. They seem like they are just playing parts on a stage. If you think of Xenocide, it's pretty much a perfect example of this. In Xenocide, it seemed that the characters who had been there all along, like Ender and Val and Novinha, sort of subsided into the background. By Children of the Mind, they were all but gone. The real story in Xenocide was party about the grown Ribeira children, but the most interesting passages, the ones that had the most passion and evocative brilliance behind them, were the ones that took place on Path with Han Fie-tzu and Si Wang-mu and Han Qing-jao. I think that was the story that most interested Card, because it ended up being the most interesting to the reader.
I feel that the same thing is happening now, in the Shadow series, except there aren't really any new characters whose stories are taking over for the ones that are subsiding, so they are forced to stay in the spotlight after their part of the story is already done.
I will agree that Pastwatch and Enchantement were rip-roaring good reads. I have high hopes for Magic Street.
Posts: 894 | Registered: Apr 2000
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I would be very sad if OSC stopped writing. I love everything I have read that Card has done. I find his work extremely entertaining as well as thought provoking. OSC is the author that made me take an interest in reading, and for that I am extremely thankful. His writing has brought me countless hours of joy.
Posts: 473 | Registered: Sep 2001
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I would prefer that OSC (or any author) stop writing when he is either burned out or has nothing new to say than that he write for the sake of writing and produce work below his established standard. So if OSC gets to that point, or the point where he would just rather do something else, I’ll wish him well.
Wyrms may be my favorite OSC novel. Or it might be tied with Speaker and/or Songmaster, I’m not sure.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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As controversial as this thread is in terms of sensitivity and topic matter, I would just like to comment that as a direct result as this thread, I have hunted down and found a copy of Hart's Hope, and will try to read it when I have time (as of now I'm wasting all my spare time on Hatrack). I thought I had gone through most of Card's works that I found worth reading, but nope! Posts: 1757 | Registered: Oct 2004
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I want Peter to be sexy, but in the Shadow series, he's not.
If OSC stopped writing, I would feel ambivalent. I'd assume he made the decision for personally valid reasons, and keep in mind that his decisions are not mine to make. Then I'd start looking for work by Geoff and Emily.
There are some authors I'd be sad to see stop writing. These are ones whose personal lives are more mysterious to me than Card's, and whose works make me feel like they have insights to other worlds. Card's works have stopped thrilling me, mostly because they don't tell me anything NEW. (I'm referring to the Shadow series and the latter Alvin Maker books).
Women of Genesis are exciting, but not enough to make me fall in love. I eagerly await the next stand-alone books, because as someone already noted, those really seem to shine.
At any rate, Card's writing decisions are his own. When I went to the first Boot Camp, I learned that criticisms let you know what particular readers/types of readers think. You ignore them if you choose, but you risk losing that reader. And sometimes you gain others. But that's your decision to make. I'm just thinking that Card's writing decisions have risked losing him the kinds of readers who need more wonder and what if in their lives. Long series are for people who liked the original wonder, but would prefer to stay in a world that's familiar. Me, I fell in love with Ender because he was both familiar and strange. Lots of strange (think of the originality of the Giant's Game). But when I could predict (in the Shadow series after the first one) how characters would react, it wasn't as thrilling for me. Other readers, though, might find that reassuring.
To be Strange, I think, means risking losing many readers. It's why Bestsellers work for many people but not for me. I like stuff on the edge, the ragged edge of Chaos where strange and wonderful and dangerous things can happen.
Posts: 3141 | Registered: Apr 2000
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Cool, a whole thread about OSC and his writing...hey, wait a minute, this isn't the Discussions About Orson Scott Card Forum! You tricked me! I had so avoided the other forum and avoided reading this kind of thing because I knew it would make me get all angst-ridden about when his new Pastwatch novels might come out. You evil hooligans!
Posts: 1423 | Registered: Sep 2003
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