posted
Ok. I don't know if I have an overly optimistic attitude regarding children just because I have been a good kid, or because my parents raised me well, but it seems to me that this concern with making sure your kids don't find anything you don't want them to on the internet or go around... meeting... creepers online just shows a lack of trust in your kids. Personally I've always just been reminded to not go around giving away my personal information and I've been responsible enough to handle anything I find online. And instant messenger... I don't see what the concern is... if someone sends someone a message that person can just not reply, and add them to the blocked list. I just feel that kids are, generally, capable of keeping themselves out of harms way given proper education from their parents on computer, and life, etiquette.
Posts: 655 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Its not a matter of not trusting them. There are reasons I make sure my kids are buckled every time we get in the car. Sure they can put on the seatbelts themselves (and do) but I still ask to make sure because its my responsibility to keep them safe. Part of keeping them safe on the internet is monitoring usage. That could include software or just be me checking on them. But since its my responsiblity as a parent I need to do what I feel is best to protect and educate my kids at the same time.
Posts: 1132 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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posted
I was going to write something up here, but it's been pretty well handled.
DSH, I honestly wouldn't worry about it enough to get specific software to protect your kids. As long as you have the relationship with them that you've laid out above, you should be good to go.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
I wouldn't say that at all. A good relationship helps of course. A knowledge of the rules helps. And any kid with any computer savvy can bypass filtering software. Or if they can't get past it, keep looking long enough and a site will get past it for them.
As far as checking the history goes, all you have to do is rightclick an item in the history and say delete and it's gone. No record that you've been there.
You can go through the cookies and see what sites they've been to but that's long and tedious. My advice would be to get a program that tracks their internet usage in a history that they can't access. That you need a password to access.
It's not a violation of trust if you tell them right from the get go that you'll be monitoring their activity.
Hold them accountable. Prevention precludes repair.
Posts: 208 | Registered: Sep 2007
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posted
Also, everyone is aware that most ISPs can provide you with access & data usage records for your account, right? Like, you can call and get a list, for the month, of every single URL visited with times & durations of visits sent to you.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Privacy isn't really any more an issue here than it is in meatspace. You'd want to meet your kids friends, and you'd want to know where they were going. It's not because you don't trust your kids, but it's because you love your kids and you don't trust other people.
(Coming into this late)
Reading chat logs seems to me to be the equivalent of listening in on phone conversations. Which seems like too much of an invasion of privacy to me.
quote:Originally posted by DSH: My oldest is 11, and while comfortable on the computer, I doubt he'll be hacking filtering software anytime soon.
You might be surprised. I haven't kept up with it at all, but back when parental controls were still common for people may age (say mid 90s), it was common knowledge of nearly all kids in my age group of how to get around them. I assume they have improved somewhat, but then I'm also sure that it would not be particularly hard for your 11 year old to figure out how to get around just about anything.
I'm going to second the idea of just informing them that you'll be monitoring their usage and finding some kind of secure history (or getting it from your ISP as someone else suggested). I'd also say tell them that you will be checking history but don't necessarily mention that you have your own history that they can't delete from if you think they will be doing that.
Posts: 187 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Jon, I'm a little confused by your view. Are you saying that it's a bad idea to be honest with your children about the negative effects of poor choices you have made? And are you also saying that it's not possible to threat/reprimand them for making those same choices if they know you did them?
DSH: Don't underestimate what your child can learn about using computers, even if he doesn't spend that much time on them at home. I learned a ton of useful info from my TEACHERS and peers in computer class. You'd think teachers would be smart enough not to teach that kind of thing to kids, but I think there are people who get off on having knowledge other people want in every vocation. Plus, some basic information is just part of that kind of training that you get in school. Like:
"Kids, this is a history. It records all the sites you go to so you can find them again easily later."
posted
Scott, we're doing pretty good in the relationship dept., it's the internet itself that I worry about.
For instance: I was helping my wife with a google search once. Entered a perfectly innocent phrase and began working my way down the list of results. Number 3 on the list gave the name and description of a site selling a specific gift my wife wanted for a baby shower she was to attend. When I clicked on the link, I was taken to a bestiality(sp?) website.
That's the kind of thing I want to prevent from happening to my kids.
pH - My kids have no privacy (except in the bathroom) and they know it. Of course, in practice, they have plenty of privacy. We still go through their things from time to time, and if they protest, we tell them the same thing my parents told me: "My house, my rules. If you don't like it, you can find somewhere else to live". (so far, it hasn't really been a problem...they're not teenagers yet!)
xtownaga - Yeah, I would be surprised. My son has shown no real interest in computers other than to play the occasional game. I've even tried to sit him down and teach him something but unless it involved a youtube video featuring thermite, he isn't interested.
PSI - Since we started homeschooling, my kids haven't learned anything about computers that I haven't taught them. (I learned a ton at school too, my CAD instructor taught us how the fdisk function of a PC works, then told us NOT to go down the street to CompUSA and fdisk their computers! )
Posts: 692 | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by PSI Teleport: DSH: Don't underestimate what your child can learn about using computers, even if he doesn't spend that much time on them at home. I learned a ton of useful info from my TEACHERS and peers in computer class. You'd think teachers would be smart enough not to teach that kind of thing to kids, but I think there are people who get off on having knowledge other people want in every vocation. Plus, some basic information is just part of that kind of training that you get in school. Like:
"Kids, this is a history. It records all the sites you go to so you can find them again easily later."
Kid's thinking, "Uh-oh."
What exactly should teachers not be teaching kids? No, we wouldn't want our children to actually know what they're doing when they're using computers...
Posts: 1810 | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
On the issue of parental supervision of chat logs, I would have to say that I fall pretty firmly in the "invasion of privacy" camp. While I can see that chat rooms can provide an opportunity for predators to talk to children and whatnot, instant messenger acts (at least for me) as a method for communicating primarily with people that I already know in real life. I think that it's horribly rude for some to just peruse such conversations with no regard for privacy. I mean, how many of the people who favor chat log monitoring would approve of recording every single phone call as well? Or eavesdropping on every private, in-person conversation?
Posts: 1466 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
True. But do you think that a parent should have a right to listen in on every single conversation that their child has?
Posts: 1466 | Registered: Jan 2003
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The child also has a right to be respected. It's a fine line that is prone to a lot of crossing and double-crossing-- and will probably be best served by a parent who knows how to apologize.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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quote: What exactly should teachers not be teaching kids? No, we wouldn't want our children to actually know what they're doing when they're using computers...
As I said, some of that knowledge is just part of the normal curriculum, and I'm not debating that kids need to know it. But there are some things that are not necessary in the least for kids in basic computer classes. In other words, young kids who barely understand the basic concepts of computer usage get taught how to sweep their internet trails clean and format their hard drives. However, there is so much more to be taught in order to fully comprehend what one is doing that I wonder why precious time would get wasted on those skills. Yes, people need to know them in order to be computer literate. But in order from fundamental to peripheral, I'm thinking that being able to do massive computer overhauling and track-covering should be WAY down at the end of the curriculum. Which is why they ARE. However, they frequently get taught as an aside for the wow factor.
So yes, anyone who wants to know what they are doing will need to learn those things eventually. I just don't think that otherwise ignorant fourteen-year-olds need that info.
edit: Unless you think I was saying that kids shouldn't know about histories. I put that under the heading of "basic things you learn at school" and NOT under "things teachers should be smart enough not to teach."
(DSH- Yay for homeschooling!)
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
I think as long as expectations are clear and made up-front, then nothing Scott has said is a violation of a kids' "rights".
My kids were told as soon as we got a computer that it would be in the middle of the house, and NOTHING would be private on it. I had the right to read/investigate/look over their shoulder -- because the internet is PUBLIC and I want them to always think of it as that.
Since I made those expectations clear up front, there was never an issue. I trust my kids, but I'm not stupid, either.
I also never get any privacy on the computer (at home) either, so it is applied equally to everyone in the household.
Posts: 9538 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
The internet is public, but personal email and an AIM chat with a friend certainly aren't. The text you type can easily be copied or forwarded, but a phone conversation can be taped and a letter photocopied.
I'm with pH in that spying on chat or email is similar to listening to your kid's phone conversations or opening his letters. After puberty or so (depending on the child), I don't think it's right, even if you let the kid know beforehand.
Posts: 2409 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Farmgirl, exactly. I don't think comparing checking your child's net usage to listening in on their phones calls (don't remember who said it) was a very good comparison anyway, specifically because I would not be inclined to leave the kitchen at my child's behest because they want a private phone call. (Our phone is in the kitchen.) Unless it was for our a specific reason that I approved of.
edit: Saw Jhai's post after this was posted.
Jhai: It's different because the letters your child receives in the mail are most likely NOT from a predator, but IM's they receive very possibly ARE. How many IM's have you gotten from people you didn't even know? Plus, I can see exactly who the snail mail is from. That's not true with email or chatting.
Sorry for the excessive editing. I also want to say that, as an example, I have manipulative and dangerous people in my family. If one of them sent a letter to my teenage child, I would DEMAND to read it. It's my job to protect them from people like that.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
When it comes to kids and their privacy, my duties as a parent trump everything else. As a parent, I'm responsible for my kids.
If I leave my baby in her car seat in the car on a hot sunny day, I'm held responsible.
If my kids vandalize the neighbors property, I'm held responsible. (same goes for most any criminal behavior kids might engage in)
If my kids behave like animals in the store, I get the dirty looks.
If my kids end up dumb as dirt, I'll be responsible (we're homeschooling...I think I said that earlier)
As far as I'm concerned, there is no such thing as a "hands off" approach to parenting. If you're gonna raise kids with any degree of success, you need to know what is going on in their lives so you can encourage, caution, guide, prohibit, correct, etc. You can't do that if you don't have a clue what's going on in your kids life.
So I "invade" my kids privacy w/out a second thought.
Posts: 692 | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
On the same thought as pH. I have honestly probably gotten 2 IMs from people who i immediately realized were not people I knew and blocked.
I think the most important thing with internet safety, from predators etc. is just to enforce the idea that we do in normal life, Don't trust anyone who has not earned your trust, and don't talk to strangers.
Posts: 655 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
I get random IM's on MyspaceIM frequently, usually after updating my page. And trust me, there's nothing interesting about my page. Maybe I'm just hot. Or maybe it's the program.
But I pick the hot thing.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
I get that too, but I look at it incredulously, determine that it's not a classmate of mine, and get rid of it.
Posts: 655 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
In addition to the possibilities of strangers IMing kids, I'd like to bring up cyberbullying as a good reason to monitor kids' chats. (Although I hate the term.) Kids can be really mean to each other. I would want to know if my child were involved in it in either direction.
I agree with many others, that "invasion of privacy" has a different meaning when children and teenagers are aware that there is no expectation of privacy in this particular area. If I say "I will never read your chats" and then I do, that's a betrayal. If I say, "Nothing you do on this computer is private," then, well, he knows up front.
Posts: 834 | Registered: Jun 2005
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