quote:Again, just speculative theories, but I can't help poring over the evidence and wondering.
I really wish you wouldn't. I know you're "just" speculating, but from where I'm sitting it seems like you're turning a human tragedy into a classroom problem, way too soon to be appropriate. The "evidence" you're examining is video from traffic cameras, and is no where near enough to draw any useful conclusions. When actual facts are available, and they're not still fishing bodies out of the water, knock yourself out.
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Completely, totally agreed, ElJay. I thought about saying something, but didn't want to turn this thread into something it shouldn't be. I'm very grateful you, as someone intimately connected to this by virture of living near it said something.
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Just caught Ryuko briefly on IM. She's been vacationing and was away when it happened. Just wanted to let everyone know she's okay. Posts: 1805 | Registered: Jun 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Tatiana: Steel isn't the best thing to use for compression members (the way I understand it, and civil engineers please correct me.) Concrete is far better in compression than steel.
Not according to anything I've ever read. Steel is fairly elastic, yet quite strong -- that's why we make I-beams and springs from the stuff. Concrete has almost no elasticity.
And that's not the only physics claim you made that I believe to be incorrect. You admit that this is not your field, and then claim that the report -- written by people whose field it IS -- is either misleading or incorrect. Based on what, exactly?
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rivka, concrete is totally better in compression than steel. Steel is excellent in tension. What physics claim have I made that you believe to be incorrect?
I'm not really sure why some people think trying to understand what happened and prevent a recurrence is offensive in some way. I take it very personally when engineering systems fail catastrophically, and I have a burning need to understand how they happen and exactly what pieces of the puzzle bring things like this to pass. The larger lessons learned apply to work I do every single day.
If you really don't want to see it, I can move it to another thread, so that you'll find it easier to avoid. To me this is an extremely important mental and moral exercise, and right now, when the tragedy lies heavy on everyone's hearts, is the right time for us to do it. I'll be glad to make a separate thread, though, so that anyone who might find it distasteful won't have to look at it.
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Perhaps the piece of the puzzle that includes a 40 year old support structure? This stuff isn't supposed to last forever, y'know.
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I don't think trying to understand what happened and prevent a recurrence is offensive. I think it is necessary, and I hope that it gets done quickly and well. I just don't think wild speculation on a message board pulled from watching a video of the collapse is serving that purpose. Even if you're right, no lives are going to be saved because of it. No one in a position to do anything useful is reading Hatrack in this particular case, and you're not going to write up a report and send it to the investigators, are you? So while it might be a useful exercise for you, for personal and professional reasons, what I was objecting to was you doing it here and now.
I also object to you casting aspersions on me and the others who feel the same way. The implication that "some people" are too blind to realize that understanding what happened is necessary to preventing further like events is insulting and condescending. There are people examining the wreckage, testing the materials, and yes, watching the videos and reading the reports. I wish them Godspeed, and I have no doubt rivka and Belle do as well. But like you said, you are not a civil engineer, and you are just speculating, from hundreds of miles away. Thinking that is offensive is very different than thinking the actual investigation is offensive.
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