posted
Maybe he just told the truth, in a way that was totally unscripted. It's odd that we not only expect but almost require politicians to lie to us on every subject, even insignificant ones. I wonder what our society would be like if the opposite were true, if we insisted our leaders tell us the truth about anything and everything, and being caught in any lie were politically fatal? That would be a very different world. I can't help but think it would be a far better one.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:I am puzzled that anyone thinks he is endorsing Hubbard's other writings by saying Battlefield Earth is his favorite novel.
Expecially Hatrackers. So, if someone likes Ender's Game, they are endorsing Card's political columns?
Lots of people feel this way, kat. In fact it's a pretty prevalent attitude out there in the world. The first post in this thread insinuated the same thing.
Mention Orson Scott Card in any (other) forum, and you will have people who say that they no longer read any of his books because of his political opinions.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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quote:Mention Orson Scott Card in any (other) forum, and you will have people who say that they no longer read any of his books because of his political opinions.
I think that in most cases that has little to do with thinking that reading him means that you endorse his political columns, though. It's more akin, if I see it correctly, to not watching Mel Gibson movies any more or what have you.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
I understand that other people tend to conflate everything a writer writes and assume that appreciation of one part means endorsement of all.
However, all things considered (and by "things" I mean Ender's Game, Card's political columns, and this being Card's website), I'm a little floored Hatrackers would think that.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by MrSquicky: It's more akin, if I see it correctly, to not watching Mel Gibson movies any more or what have you.
Not in my experience. I've been told on another forum after posting a positive review of OSC's Treason that I -must- be a pro-Bush and think the Iraq war is a good thing.
Why? Because I read Card, so I "must also think that, because you just must."
We live in a world where it's no longer possible to openly hold mixed opinions, because having one opinion causes other to automatically tack on a whole slew of things "You must also think, because you just MUST!"
Being a Mormon means I -must- hate anyone who drinks or smokes.
Reading and enjoying Card means I -must- love Bush.
Reading manga means I -must- hate American super-hero comics!
posted
Of all the stories I've read, I've never considered what the author's views are. Frankly, I couldn't care less.
If his views are expressed in his work, that doesn't affect me. I've read stories which, at a political and religious level, I might disagree with entirely, but I still enjoy the story for what it's worth.
I read and enjoyed Ender's Game without knowing anything about OSC. Now that I know some of his views, that doesn't change my opinion on the book or any other books of his I might eventually read.
I feel one has to disassociate the two.
Posts: 3486 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Zeugma, I don't think this is the place to make those kind of statements. You say you stay for the great and diverse community, and that's cool, but Orson Scott Card is still our host. Part of what makes this community great is respect for all our members, and no matter how infrequently active, OSC is still a member here. If you are choosing to stay in spite of him, I wish you would do so without making negative comments about him. To use the living room metaphor, you're spitting on the carpet.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Of all the stories I've read, I've never considered what the author's views are. Frankly, I couldn't care less.
If his views are expressed in his work, that doesn't affect me. I've read stories which, at a political and religious level, I might disagree with entirely, but I still enjoy the story for what it's worth.
I read and enjoyed Ender's Game without knowing anything about OSC. Now that I know some of his views, that doesn't change my opinion on the book or any other books of his I might eventually read.
I feel one has to disassociate the two.
Exactly.
I enjoy fiction for itself, not for the author. When I read fiction, I'm interested in being entertained. I'm in it for the story.
I don't care about the author's views in real life - that's completely separate from his/her ability to tell a good yarn.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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When I was in college, I had a discussion with a female friend about something similar. We had a professor that we both liked and respected. There was a...black mark...on his personal life, nothing illegal, but...not saint-like. She was of the opinion that females were be less likely to want to continue studying with the professor if they knew this about him, unlike most males. When I found this out about him, it didn't immediately affect my opinion of him, but she said it affected hers. Hmmm...
But I think this is different. As long as OSC keeps his political and religious views largely out of his novels, I'll keep reading. I'm not sure I'll read Empire, but I read Crystal City.
Posts: 3354 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:A couple of my other favorite science fiction, Ann McCaffrey’s Dragon Flight . . .
Can't say I think much of whoever transcribed the interview. Didn't bother to check the spelling of author OR title.
As for conflating an author's fiction with their political views/writing, I think that's nonsense. I thought Dianetics was far more interesting a read than Battlefield Earth, and I don't like reading OSC's political essays. So, y'know, I don't read them. (I seriously do not understand those who read them just so they can get all riled up about 'em.) If I disliked reading his books, I wouldn't -- but that's entirely separate from his essays. Thus far, my OSC collection continues to grow.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Scott R: Lots of people feel this way, kat. In fact it's a pretty prevalent attitude out there in the world. The first post in this thread insinuated the same thing.
In my first post I wasn't taking issue with Romney espousing a book written by L. Ron Hubbard. I was taking issue with Romney indicating his favorite novel was one which my (admittedly limited) experience led me to believe was a second-rate hack job. It was less an issue of political opinion and more an issue of questionable taste. Perhaps something else was read into it by others, but that was my original intent.
Posts: 2926 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
I don't think it's as simple as saying that I do or do not separate an artist's views from their work. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. It depends on the work, the artist, the views or actions in question, and the degree to which they show up in the work.
Example 1: Frank Miller
I enjoyed The Dark Knight Returns and the film adapatation of Sin City, but the adaptation of 300 left a bad taste in my mouth. I'm assuming both adaptations are true to their source material, which I'm given to understand is a reasonable assumption. The distinction seems to be that I don't like Miller's work when his political views shine through the visceral joy of explosions and stuff. I have no interest in his "Batman vs. Al-Qaeda" project.
Example 2: Joss Whedon
Pretty much all of the sympathetic characters in Firefly are libertarians. I'm not a libertarian, and from what I've read, neither is Joss Whedon, but I love Firefly all the same. Once, I was discussing politics on another forum with a strongly libertarian friend and he said "twinky is gorram Alliance!" I made "Gorram Alliance" my custom title. Anyway, this is a case where I'm at least sympathetic to the politics of the artist even though the work itself inverts those politics to some degree.
Example 3: Roman Polanski
I've seen his film version of Macbeth and also The Ninth Gate. I liked both of them.
Example 4: Orson Scott Card
In the specific case of Card, I stopped reading his books when I stopped enjoying them enough to merit the reading. That this happened around the same time as his columns started showing up online is coincidental. I generally don't read the columns. It doesn't have anything to do with perceived quality, either, I just preferred the more "talky" style of Xenocide to the geopolitical intrigue of the Shadow series. If he writes anything else in that style in the future I imagine I'd read it.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote: I was taking issue with Romney indicating his favorite novel was one which my (admittedly limited) experience led me to believe was a second-rate hack job. It was less an issue of political opinion and more an issue of questionable taste. Perhaps something else was read into it by others, but that was my original intent.
All right-- sorry for the misinterpretation.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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quote:Pretty much all of the sympathetic characters in Firefly are libertarians. I'm not a libertarian, and from what I've read, neither is Joss Whedon, but I love Firefly all the same. Once, I was discussing politics on another forum with a strongly libertarian friend and he said "twinky is gorram Alliance!" I made "Gorram Alliance" my custom title. [Big Grin] Anyway, this is a case where I'm at least sympathetic to the politics of the artist even though the work itself inverts those politics to some degree.
I would be rather shocked if Joss Whedon didn't score libertarian on political quizzes. I also strongly suspect he votes Democrat. I've never read anything about Whedon's personal political views, but I've watched all of Buffy, Angel, & Firefly and the worldview of each is pretty darn libertarian. I think it is nearly impossible to keep the way you see the world out of your writing. For a short story, perhaps. But when you have a huge volume of work, themes that are important to you are going to repeat.
Posts: 1947 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Aren't you guys worried that some much time is being spent discussing this rather than Mr. Romney's political manifesto?
Anyway Battlefield Earth is a fun book to read, it's entertaining, requires little or no effort to read and has mosters, heroes, villains and lots of action.
BTW, I feel so much better now that I am cleansed of the infulence of those pernicious Thetans...
posted
Personally, were I to answer such a question honestly as a candidate, I'd have to say Lord of the Rings. So I can't fault him for his answer. The guy likes sci-fi, and he isn't afraid to say it, that makes me like him more, not less.
It has zero effect on whether or not I would vote for him, but I respect him more because of it.
I don't read books based on what their authors think politically. I don't vote based on what fiction the candidates read.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Can't say I think much of whoever transcribed the interview. Didn't bother to check the spelling of author OR title. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Anyway, this is a case where I'm at least sympathetic to the politics of the artist even though the work itself inverts those politics to some degree. 
