I don't know why this is. I'm from Texas and Utah, but I spent a lot of time talking to people in Detroit so sometimes I will have a Michigan/midwestern accent from that experience.
Jon Boy, any theories?
All I know is how the different pronunciations come from different dialects in England. I'm not sure how those dialects carried over to the US, though. It does seem odd to me that someone like you would rhyme "bury" with "curry," though. I don't think I've ever heard that pronunciation in Utah.
posted
vonk, Try to imagine Rosie O'Donnell saying "caw-fee."
The problem is, people in other parts of the country don't say their "aw"s the way New Yorkers do, so that spelling just doesn't quite convey the sound.
I had a T-shirt (wonder whatever happened to it?) that said "New Yawk" on it. I remember somebody looking at it and saying something to the effect of "New Yock?"
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Yeah, I say caw-fee. I took the quiz, came out 45% Yankee, 40% General American English, 10% Dixie, 0% Midwestern, 0% Upper Midwestern... even though that doesn't add to 100%.
Apparently pronouncing Mary/merry/marry the same is "General American English" and pronouncing them differnetly is "Yankee" because when I switched that answer, my percentages for those two categories flip-flipped. Interesting.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
I'm with FlyingCow on this one. (Strangely enough.) Buried rhymes with ferried, but not married. And Mary, marry, and merry are all pronounced differently. So, do you guys pronounce all the vowels in the lists in FlyingCow's (edit: next to) last post the same?
On the other hand, Newbury rhymes with furry.
[Edit again: Jon Boy, it'd be nice to see those maps normalized by population density. But interesting still.]
Posts: 1810 | Registered: Jan 1999
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Er, being midatlantic means I pronounce "buried" two different ways- the rest is quite complicated.
Buried as "Berried" is the original, rhymes with merry, ferry, Perry etc. "Bury-ied" as in "Murray" is the new one.
(I can also do a third one- and did when I first read the word on this thread-, see "Newbury" below.)
I'd probably read it as the latter (because of the way it's written) and speak it as the former (because that's the way I originally learnt it).
Furry doesn't even fit for me in any of these. "Fir-y" (as in fir tree) is how I say it. It's a long, drawled vowel, like the u in "surly". It doesn't rhyme with "flurry" or "surry".
Newbury is a a 'darker' more closed-mouth "u" than my second "buried". More northern England "u". I also read "buried" like this sometimes, as I mentioned above, it depends.
Marry has the same "a" for me as "Sally" does. Merry rhymes with "berry". Mary starts with the same sound as is in "mare" (as in a female horse)- a long sound.
I have a lot of vowels.
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In my neck of the woods (with towns named Amesbury, Salisbury, Newbury, West Newbury, Newburyport), the bury really turns into bree.
My pronunciation of the "3 Ms" is a little fluid between Mary and Marry. They can both be slightly different, or the same, depending. Merry is definitely different.
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Threads like this would be so much less confusing if everyone knew the International Phonetic Alphabet.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:Originally posted by sweetbaboo: Myr, don't you mean a "bubblah"?
Absolutely
I actually typed it like that first, then changed it just in case some couldn't figure out what word I was phoenetically spelling Posts: 3636 | Registered: Oct 2001
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So, are "ferry" and "fairy" homophones to you midwesterners as well? How about the irish province of "Derry" and the food product "dairy"? The names "Kerry" and "Carie"? How about the Pennsylvania homophones of "Dawn" and "Don"?
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1) strong "aw", as in "One, two three: Awww" 2) weak "aw", as in coffee or Paul or the first "o" in moron or short 3) short "a", as in cat (I swear I've heard this) 4) short "o", as in pot
I was raised to pronounce it as #2. People who say it as #4 like to make fun of #2, and overdo it with #1. People who realize that #4 is wrong like to make fun of #4 people by overdoing that as #3.
Boston, Florida and Chicago all have the same vowel in them, the way I say them.
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: So, are "ferry" and "fairy" homophones to you midwesterners as well? How about the irish province of "Derry" and the food product "dairy"? The names "Kerry" and "Carie"? How about the Pennsylvania homophones of "Dawn" and "Don"?
Ferry and fairy sound the same. Derry and dairy sound the same. Kerry and Carrie and carry and carie (the dental term) sound the same. But Don has the same vowel as pot and stop and cot and mop, while Dawn has the same vowel as bought and sauce and Chicago.
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But Boston is pronounced Bahstin. (Actually, I use the weak 'aw' for Boston, but a short 'o' for Chicago. Guess that means I'm not a local of either locale.)
Posts: 1810 | Registered: Jan 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Jon Boy: Threads like this would be so much less confusing if everyone knew the International Phonetic Alphabet.
I agree.
As for the original question, I pronounce like B unless it occurs at the end of a word, such as Ray Bradbury. That I pronounce like A. Of course, as far as I know -bury is not morphologically related to bury, so there's no reason to pronounce them the same.
And, google confirms my suspicion that -bury is related to burg and burrough.
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Oh, and bury == berry, but -bury (the suffix) has a schwa (which can easily morph to -bree) rather than rhyming with surry (with a fringe on top), which I pronounce with a short 'u'.
quote:A: Similar to curried and furry
Curried has a short 'u', and furry has a schwa. (Though my grandmother, I've noticed, pronounces it with a short 'u'.)
quote: Threads like this would be so much less confusing if everyone knew the International Phonetic Alphabet.
Yes. But I can't be bothered to learn it, considering nearly no one else knows it. Posts: 1810 | Registered: Jan 1999
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quote: 1) strong "aw", as in "One, two three: Awww" 2) weak "aw", as in coffee or Paul or the first "o" in moron or short
See, those are the same sound to me!
The first is just a really exaggerated version of the second. In the first, you close your mouth into an "o" more at the beginning. And draw it out. Oawwww. With the second one... well, when you say "oh", see where your mouth is. And when you say "ah", see where your mouth is. Now, if you have your mouth exactly midway between the two (less open than "ah", but more open than "oh"), you get "aw".
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Jon Boy: Threads like this would be so much less confusing if everyone knew the International Phonetic Alphabet.
I agree.
As for the original question, I pronounce like B unless it occurs at the end of a word, such as Ray Bradbury. That I pronounce like A. Of course, as far as I know -bury is not morphologically related to bury, so there's no reason to pronounce them the same.
Huh. I do the same thing. Brad-burr-ee But then again, I pronounce Maybury RFD like may-barry.
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posted
The Don v. Dawn thing was something my sister dealt with in college. She had two friends named "Dawn" - one from PA and one from NJ, each with very stereotypical speaking patterns.
The first pronounced it "Dahn" (like you'd say the male name Don). The second pronounced the "aw" so hard that it sounded more like "Doowun" (imagine taking the staring sound for "wood" or "would" or "worchester" and sticking it on the "w" in "Dawn" and you're getting close to how it sounded)
When her friends would call, I'd say "It's Dawn," and she'd ask "Dahn or Doowun?"
But I can't imagine why I do it that way, based on other words of similar spelling; curry, hurried, I should be pronouncing it A.
What can I say, English doesnt have rules that are consistant, and I make it worse by not being consistant with my English.
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posted
When I read "buried" it's pronounced Buhrried in my head. when I say it, it rhymes with married.
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Newbury has a definately"ury" Sainsbury's, as in the supermarket, is generally a "brees". Although perhaps with a little hiccup, not really a vowel. Salisbury is the same.
Don and Dawn are pronounced exactly how they look to me. Which is totally differently. If I switch on my American accent though, I can do them both the same, hehe.
quote:Threads like this would be so much less confusing if everyone knew the International Phonetic Alphabet.
We can't all be Jon Boy.
Also, I do- to a certain extent- it's just way easier for me to find another word which sounds the same.
quote:When I read "buried" it's pronounced Buhrried in my head. when I say it, it rhymes with married.
I cannot get my mouth around how married can sound like murried and still be the same word. Married has an "a" in it!
quote:But as you can see from this thread, saying "I pronounce x like y" doesn't always clarify things. [Razz]
Well, see, I don't want to have to go searching for the correct symbols to copy and paste. Also, my knowledge is less than perfect which means I would have to go and check that it was right.
By that time, it would probably be easier for me to record myself saying each word and upload it.
quote:I think she was saying that her mental pronunciation and actual pronunciation are different.
Oh. :/ I think I need to read things more carefully in the future.
Although in my mind, buried rhymes better with berried than with married, even though I'm pretty sure I pronounce them all with the same vowels. I grew up in Illinois, in the cornfields SW of Chicago.
And as far as Chicago accents go, I've heard people pronounce coffee as 'cwawfee'. The two people I can definitely remember saying this both grew up in/near Cicero.
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Here's one I waffle on: apricot with a long 'a' (like "ate") or a short 'a' (like "at")? (That is a short 'a', neh?)
Posts: 1810 | Registered: Jan 1999
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Although in my mind, buried rhymes better with berried than with married, even though I'm pretty sure I pronounce them all with the same vowels. I grew up in Illinois, in the cornfields SW of Chicago.
And as far as Chicago accents go, I've heard people pronounce coffee as 'cwawfee'. The two people I can definitely remember saying this both grew up in/near Cicero.
Hmm... <nod> There's this thick Chicago accent that you only find in certain parts of the Chicago area. "Da Bears" goes along with that cwawfee. It makes me think of movies about Al Capone. In the more northern parts of Chicago and the suburbs, you don't hear that kind of thing very much, though.
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Newbury has a definately"ury" Sainsbury's, as in the supermarket, is generally a "brees". Although perhaps with a little hiccup, not really a vowel. Salisbury is the same.
Like I said, it's a local thing. Also, as Mike briefly mentions, it's really mostly bree. I can sort of feel/hear the 'u' sound, but spoken quickly, it disappears. For non-local -burys, I pronounce it like "berry".
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