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I've got no problem with that approach, its the completely-avoid-sending-clear-signals approach that irks me Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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It is not true for the same reason that "careful = sensitive" is not true... because people act in certain ways for different reasons.
The following groups of people are all aggressive in their courtship, I think: 1) Gutsy people who do or do not care a lot about you, but are okay with taking the risk 2) Careful people who care so much for you that it overwhelms their normally careful ways 3) People who don't really care about you at all, and thus are not hurt if you reject them or think poorly of them 4) People who assume you will definitely say yes, and thus have nothing to fear (perhaps because they think they are hot stuff ) 5) People who were brought up thinking that aggressiveness in courtship was the norm, and don't know any other way of courtship
And so on and so forth... I can bet that there are plenty of people fighting in Iraq or doing other courageous jobs who might not be too direct in trying to catch the eye of a girl - for whatever reason.
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:I like being courted, dang it. I like someone who is aggressive and fearless enough to try.
I like aggressive too. Like Wash and Saffron:
Saffron: "I've been too forward." Wash: "No. Well, yes, but actually I like that in a woman. That's why Zoe and I are, as previously mentioned, married."
I used to be really shy, and I spent a fair while working on getting over that (still am, really); I don't mind kicking things off if it comes to that, but if it's never reciprocated -- well, then I'm not interested.
quote:This is definitely from experience. I used to not mind at all, but I found out that it doesn't really change - if a girl has to make it happen, she will always be the one to make things happen. I don't want to be the one to make things happen.
Why does it always have to be one or the other? Can't the "making things happen" be shared at least somewhat equally? That's my ideal in relationships in many respects, actually. I want the spontaneity to come as much from her as it does from me. I'm okay with courting and being gentlemanly and sweet and all that stuff to an extent, but I certainly don't want someone ladylike in the classical sense.
quote:And I'm not really that subtle - when I like someone, I, at least, think it is glaringly apparent. I get the beaming kind of blush that's visible from space.
You could be blushing for any number of reasons. Maybe you're thinking about your boyfriend. How are we supposed to know?
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Corwin:
quote:And don't you hate it when you know you'll start over, doing the same thing, because there's no other way you know?
There is another way! Just try to avoid falling for your friends. Or have mostly male friends.
I know a lot of people see relationships that develop from friendships as the ideal, but to my mind dating a friend is in also asking for trouble. If you're sure it's worth the risk, go ahead, but just remember that there are awesome people almost everywhere. This person is probably not as perfect for you as you think. Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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Yes, but here's the real question: How do you figure out who is "gutsy + nice" at a glance, when often what appears to be "gutsy + nice" is actually "insensitive"?
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:You could be blushing for any number of reasons. Maybe you're thinking about your boyfriend. How are we supposed to know?
You could ask me.
I think if the girl has to start something, then she will always hvae to be the one to start something precisely BECAUSE there is social pressure for the guy to do it. If all that social pressure didn't spur him to action, then knowing that a girl likes him probably won't do it, either. That's just frustrating.
As Dag said, there is a difference between passive and clueless.
quote:How do you figure out who is "gutsy + nice" at a glance, when often what appears to be "gutsy + nice" is actually "insensitive"?
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twinky: Well, see, I wouldn't have gone for it that eagerly had she not seemed interested too! I was in kind of a bad period in my life and was certainly not looking for more trouble, but things seemed to go so well with her and we have so much in common, bla-bla-bla... (if there's any reason you can name to go for it, it was present) Oh well, it just sucked big time. This is partly why I interrupted my studies this year and lead to a really bad situation with my parents - not that it was really good before. I thought I was at my lowest point in life before that happened and things were starting to go up. But there's always worse, isn't it?
I was going to type more, but I think I'm going to save the story for a future landmark. Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: I think if the girl has to start something, then she will always hvae to be the one to start something precisely BECAUSE there is social pressure for the guy to do it.
How can we change this social momentum if girls refrain from asking boys out because of the social momentum?
All that said, I've never been asked out by a girl (of course, I don't really "date" in the conventional sense of the term, at least not since high school). There have been instances where girls subtly or unsubtly nudged me toward starting something (or essentially started something unilaterally), though, and if I was interested I always followed through. Often in those kinds of situations the girl said she felt like she was being forward, and I always explained that I thought it was awesome.
This doesn't happen all the time by any stretch, but I like it when girls, um, show initiative, because it shows confidence (which is a trait I find very attractive). I'd say that I usually give the girl some signals before starting something myself, and if she beats me to it then attraction++, but if she doesn't that's okay too (at least initially). Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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Every time I asked a guy out, I not only got shot down, I also got this horrified look accompanying the shoot-down. Now, maybe it was because I was just that repulsive, and maybe it was my choice of guys, but let me tell you, that only happened three times before I decided it wasn't worth it.
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Megan: Every time I asked a guy out, I not only got shot down, I also got this horrified look accompanying the shoot-down. Now, maybe it was because I was just that repulsive, and maybe it was my choice of guys, but let me tell you, that only happened three times before I decided it wasn't worth it.
Clearly you've been asking out entirely the wrong guys. In all seriousness: it sucks that it went badly for you, but I think it's great that you at least tried.
I'm certainly not suggesting that my attitude is the norm. Of course, I'm also, um, not talking about having been asked out. The one time a girl verbally expressed her intentions to me, I think I might have broken her heart (I wasn't altogether nice). But there were extenuating circumstances! She'd been lying and I felt manipulated, so I didn't feel bad about it.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Just remember, there are awesome women everywhere. Really.
Thanks for the hug.
And yeah, this time, I actually *do* understand there are other interesting women out there and I'm quite sure that I'll find someone else; not because I believe there's someone "waiting" for me out there, someone "special". Neah... It's simply a statistical truth... Just have to keep my eyes open! Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003
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Why would they have that horrified look? As for me I only give girls that "suspisious your planning to humiliate me again" look since whenever a girl tries to ask me out its always the mean girls trying to make me feel bad. As for good girls well I'm too shy so I never try to ask any of them out since well I'm a tad overweight (seriously just a tad I carry weight well since I'm tallish) so I'm not really confident about myself though that could also be from all the belittling I get from my older sister... So I want lose 10 pounds first and when I have some money saved up then I'll ask a girl out using info I pick up from Hatrack. (the reason why I want money before dating is so I can pay for dinner and get the occasional gift).
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Well, twink, that was a while ago; I don't know how Jim would feel about me asking guys out now.
I tried, but mainly I tried cause no one was asking me out. I told myself, suck it up, the worst they can do is say no, right? Wrong! The worst they can do is look at you as if you've suddenly developed leprosy right there in front of them, and they're going to catch it!
Then again, I guess that's true of anyone asking anyone else out. Maybe giving out a polite rejection is something that girls have more practice at, since it's usually guys who do the asking. I'd imagine there are some girls who would've also responded to being asked out by guys in the same way that those guys responded to me.
And, like I said, maybe I really was that repulsive. Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Maybe giving out a polite rejection is something that girls have more practice at, since it's usually guys who do the asking.
Maybe... See, that's why this thing needs practice! Girls have to ask out more, and guys have to learn - from girls, it seems - how to be polite when they aren't interested. Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003
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But in social situations that I'm uncomfortable with (being most social situations!) I often say stupid or mean things by mistake.
For example, when people are feeling guilty and I think it's silly that they feel guilty I might laugh a bit - my friends don't take offense because they know why I'm laughing. People I don't know sometimes think I'm a jerk.
But I hate cold stew, or chili. You know, when it gets all that yucky solidified grease in it?
quote:Originally posted by Enigmatic: There's going to be paddles involved? Whoa! You'd better start asking higher prices if it's going to get all kinky like that.
I'm probably due... I haven't been paddled since I cussed in 8th grade Gym Class.
Rivka, looks like your $.02 is gonna carry the day... Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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You cannot reach a wonderful girl without releasing Mom's apron strings a little bit.
Get over it, grow a pair and ask the girl out. Rarely does a woman pick up a pair of flashlights and guide you in like a fighter plane landing on an aircraft carrier.
Look, if you're interested in someone, by the third time you meet, just ask them out. Nothing serious, just ask. It's either yes or no. What's the big deal?
Hovering around, hoping, waiting, praying for some grand invitation is well, honestly, a bit creepy and stalkerish. And honestly, most times, if you don't make some sort of move, well, there you stand motionless as the world goes on past you.
Why take the time and make it a Big Deal (TM) in your own head? It just makes you more nervous (which is very easy to spot) and for so many people creates a self-fulfilling prophesy (I'll never have a girl like that, so I'm not going to ask her out... yadda yadda yadda). Dinner with Mom and Dad on Friday night's so much easier.
Sheeeesh. Just ask. You might just surprise yourself.
And that first kiss thing... quit making it into a big deal, too. If you had a great time and really connected (you'll know), at the end of the date just say, "I really had a great time and I was wondering if I could have a goodnight kiss."
Yanno, I'm not a terribly attractive guy and I'm not swimming in money but I've only been turned down for a date two or three times when I've asked. And if I felt comfortable enough to ask for a kiss goodnight, I've never been turned down for it.
You can be the "nice guy" true and true and still date. You've just got to be sincere, honest and straightforward. Not asking someone out is hiding your feelings. Not asking someone for a goodnight kiss you'd really like to have is hiding something. People who hide often aren't easily found, understand?
And as my Pastor's mother advised him before his first date, "Hank, remember, girls like to be kissed as much as boys like to kiss them."
Posts: 2848 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Get over it, grow a pair and ask the girl out. Rarely does a woman pick up a pair of flashlights and guide you in like a fighter plane landing on an aircraft carrier.
Look, if you're interested in someone, by the third time you meet, just ask them out. Nothing serious, just ask. It's either yes or no. What's the big deal?
Hovering around, hoping, waiting, praying for some grand invitation is well, honestly, a bit creepy and stalkerish. And honestly, most times, if you don't make some sort of move, well, there you stand motionless as the world goes on past you.
But this advice would apply just the same to girls waiting to ask out guys, no?
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000
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See, that's why this thing needs practice! Girls have to ask out more, and guys have to learn - from girls, it seems - how to be polite when they aren't interested. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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