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oops, got a little click happy there Show me one instance where Biden has supported anything the President has done? He just attacks whatever he can to get the attention of the willing press
Posts: 1918 | Registered: Mar 2005
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First, it doesn't matter if Biden has supported Bush or not as to whether or not O'Reilly did something very unethical.
Second,
quote:Biden, Carper often vote with president For all the complaining that Delaware Republicans do about Biden, he ranked in the top 20 of Senate Democrats who sided with President George W. Bush on roll call votes in the last session of the Congress.
U.S. Sen. Tom Carper placed in the top 10 in presidential support among Senate Democrats. U.S. Rep. Mike N. Castle scored in a different sort of top 10 – as one of the House Republicans who broke most often with their party’s president.
The voting record of the state’s three-member congressional delegation for 2003-2004 was compiled in a biennial analysis by Congressional Quarterly, a respected publication that covers Capitol Hill. The results were included in Politics in America 2006, a comprehensive guide to the workings of the Congress.
Both Biden and Carper reflected the White House’s position more than half the time with their votes, Biden at 54% and Carper slightly higher at 57%. It was enough to make Biden 19th in presidential support and Carper 8th among the 44 Democrats who make up the Senate minority.
quote: Your extreme leap of logic was that you didn’t immediately assume that the evil Bush administration and the right wing had some sort of plan to take over the world! I mean come on. It all makes sense when you put on your alphabet goggles (ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN) and throw everything that makes sense out the window. Just assume the worst, and if you can’t get to the worst make it up (New York Times). Blame the other guy and remember that conservative bashing is cool (Michael Moore).
I suppose everything has it's polar opposite then doesn't it Jay? I'd throw out the network news shows, I don't think they are skewed one way or the other mostly. Fox News is more of a NeoCon mouthpiece than most anything else. Ann Coulter is the the Neocon version of Michael Moore, so every time you attack Moore, you should also apologize for Coulter, otherwise your argument seems a moot point to me.
Check your own party before attacking the opposition for the exact same thing. Makes you look a little silly.
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Indeed as is posting the headline of that article... Biden could run for both president and Senate in ‘08 Sounds to me like someone is just trying to get some press time
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I notice you completely neglect the point of what I quoted, which completely demolishes your notion that Biden never agrees with the President. I'm glad you're so honest with yourself.
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Fox news is the polar opposite of say, CBS, for example. Shouldn't you be apologizing for Rather/CBS since you just attacked Fox News? Perhaps you don't think network news shows are skewed because they fit your world view? Just as Fox News fits my world view?
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Yes, Fox is not liberal (like the other news networks) but it certainly isn’t GOP TV. Just because it isn’t what you’re used to getting in the liberal press doesn’t make it the conservative press. I call it more what the press is supposed to be. Ann is so wonderful. She hasn’t returned my marriage proposal yet though…. Ann, I’m sorry those mean guys tried to throw pies at you. Glad you’re quick and they missed….. Does that work as an apology for Ann? I do check my party. Each Election Day! And I like to be silly every now and then. Or else you all would think I’m a big stick in the mud an dislike me even more!
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Fugu13... You are right, and I was wrong. I was typing another response at that time. Sorry for the delay. I do still believe that Biden is just being a politician and following the blowing wind which is currently blowing away from the President. But you are correct that he had, slightly over the majority of the time, agreed with the President. I was incorrect about Biden never agreeing with the President and I should have done more fact checking.
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I believe that the general trend on CBS news is towards the left while the general trend of Fox is towards the right
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Also, note that its not just agreeing with the President more often than not on bills, but that he agrees with the President more often than about half the other democrats do.
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There is no trap, no news channel is completely left or completely right. There are just general tendencies
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Again, I'm not talking about partisan leanings. I'm talking about actual integrity, which is independent of party.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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That's OK, I did need to be explicit because I usually do better homework than that Although if you asked my teachers in school they would disagree and think that is just about right for doing my homework, and a special thanks to Mike R. who let me copy his Trig homework during English class! Posts: 1918 | Registered: Mar 2005
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No, I don't think that CBS is anywhere near the polar opposite of Fox News. The difference is that most often the network news shows only report the news, they are actual reporters, they aren't commentators, they don't usually show their opinion.
That having been said, I honestly don't watch every single network news every night, as I highly doubt any of you do. I watch CBS most nights. Dan Rather nine times out of ten only ever reported the news and left the rest for you to form your own opinion. Sometimes I didn't like what he had to say, but it was hard to argue with him as a reporter.
If you want to argue about the cable news shows, that is a different story. Fox News is by no means a simple projector of the unbiased truth. It is incredibly skewed towards Neocon philosophy.
CNN at times has a liberal tilt, but I find I disagree with them about as often as I agree, so I'd call it fair.
MSNBC I used to consider libereal, but I don't consider it as such anymore, anything they say has to balanced with the words of Scarborough.
But even this is a moot point, liberals all call the media neocon, neocons all call it liberal. In truth, television media falls somewhere in between. Radio media is a neocon bastion, for neocons to claim otherwise is laughable. And print media is also a mix of the two.
Ann Coulter is one of the most inflammatory people I've ever seen speak the English or any other language. If you support her, good for you, but don't pretend she is in a separate category from Michael Moore. They're two sides of the same noisy little coin. And I think you can check your party in more ways in the ballot box, I'm a vocal critic of things I feel my party does wrong, I don't just blindly support them and attack the opposition.
And I don't dislike you. Much of the time I find your arguments cogently put together, though from time to time lacking in substance. It's possible to dislike someone's politics, but still like the person.
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I don’t see Fox as right. I see them as being neutral on the news. Just like their motto “We report, you decide.” Unlike the CBS motto: “We fake it, we slant it our way.” Sure, there are shows that have opinions, but the news is just that. News. What it’s supposed to be.
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quote: If you support her, good for you, but don't pretend she is in a separate category from Michael Moore. They're two sides of the same noisy little coin.
You know, I disagree with this. Moore, for all he's irritating and biased, hasn't suggested crashing any planes into buildings for the good of the country.
quote: Just like their motto “We report, you decide.” Unlike the CBS motto: “We fake it, we slant it our way.”
I suppose, given this quote of yours, there's really no point to discussing journalistic integrity with you.
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quote: You know, I disagree with this. Moore, for all he's irritating and biased, hasn't suggested crashing any planes into buildings for the good of the country.
Yeah, I actually agree with you, but I was trying to be a little hard on Moore and soft on Coulter for the sake of making myself look more unbiased. There, I admit it. I don't think he is anywhere near as bad as she is. He doesn't seem to like Neocons, but he doesn't call them traitors and haters of America.
When did Coulter say that bit about crashing planes into buildings being good?
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Oh yeah, the right is doing great in the radio wars! The poor left wing radio just can’t seem to make it. Boo-hoo. Sure, Ann is inflammatory, but she tells the truth, unlike Michael Moore who just makes things up for his documentaries. Biggest bunch of lies put together since the OJ defense.
And ok, I’ll admit it. I also don’t blindly follow the GOP. I actually disagree with the NRA on a lot of things. Sure I support gun rights. But there is nothing wrong with waiting periods and assault rifle cop killer bullet bans.
And thanks (now if I can just get Tom to admit he likes me!)
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quote:And ok, I’ll admit it. I also don’t blindly follow the GOP. I actually disagree with the NRA on a lot of things. Sure I support gun rights. But there is nothing wrong with waiting periods and assault rifle cop killer bullet bans.
I don't think there's a Republican in office who'd be willing to disagree with that statement.
Posts: 4600 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Interesting, it does seem that Franken misrepresented O'Reilly in his own report. He declined to include the "Once again" in the following O'Reilly quote:
quote:Also once again, the Bush administration should set up an independent commission to investigate American detainee policy across the board.
This doesn't ameliorate the wrongness of mis-representing Biden's position (which he certainly does by saying "Now over the weekend, Senator Joseph Biden joined the abuse chorus and called for the shutting down of Guantanamo Bay ... it's amazing to me that he and others actually believe that closing Gitmo would accomplish anything") and then chopping down the quote to fool viewers into thinking that he and Biden disagree. But I would not have been quite so incensed in the first place if I'd known that O'Reilly had called for independent commissions previously, and wasn't just stealing Biden's idea.
It really is nearly impossible to avoid getting manipulated in today's news environment. I fear for all of us.
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Columns and polemics and essays aside, when I watch the news I want just that. News. Information. Generally the closest I can get is to read as many different news venues as possible to try and derive a gestalt truth.
I don't read Coulter, don't watch Moore, don't listen to Franken or Limbaugh. They do not give me information, they only offer opinions and invective-laden diatribes, and I can do that myself.
The fact of the matter is most news shows are driven by ratings, and most people apparently want opinions fed to them.
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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I have watched Fox News exactly once in my life. I've never been to the web site.
First, it reminded me of why I have always hated television news. Seriously dumbed-down bedtime stories for people who like their social myths packaged and pastuerized. I've never seen a television news story that didn't do it, although I admit I have limited my intake in recent years as much as I possibly could.
Secondly, this may be true of all news stations - I don't know. I've seen Fox News once in the past few months, but I've seen the others not at all. Don't freak out.
Third:
Holy crap, what glorified pulpit. I have decided that Fox News works because there is usually a hero in every story, and the hero is The American People. What The American People are is wonderful and heroic, and in order to be heroic, there needs to be things up with which The American People will not put.
No wonder it's popular - everyone likes being the hero.
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quote:Especially since your case against Bill wouldn’t even make it past the grand jury.
I don't know if you're joking, but this statement is symptomatic of what I see as a high tolerance for truth-twisting. It doesn't need to be something we could prosecute in order to be unethical.
You should be more willing to admit that dishonesty abounds on both sides of the "left-right divide" that has somehow entered into our TV news media in the last decade and a half. And perhaps realize that there's a reason this goes hand-in-hand with the new trend of editorializing on television while claiming (as O'Reilly does) to be a "journalist."
As for Coulter, I don't see how her crap even came to be brought up in this thread. I could see a thoughtful Republican considering her work a "guilty pleasure," but people who stand behind her through thick and thin amaze me. The same goes for Michael Moore, of course.
Posts: 4600 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Well, I’m not sure you’ve “proven” your case against Ann.
I can.
Any time she -- or any other commentator -- starts a statement with "Liberals want you to..." or "Conservatives always...", that commentator is lying to you. They are deliberately labeling an imaginary group of people the commentator can then safely debate, accuse, and ridicule, even though no such collective body exists.
After that imaginary enemy is established, any individual who voices opposing concerns can be easily dismissed as being a member of that group, regardless of the context or any other opinions that individual may hold, or the actual facts or reasoning behind the voiced concern.
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I fear for all of us.
