quote:Originally posted by lem: I don't mind big Jesus signs that I think look cheezy. Regardless what their motives are, it does not bother nor offend me. It is part of the decoration of the society I live in.
It reminds of the values of my fellow citizens.
Except "JESUS" isn't a value. And I think your comment is narrowing down for me why this bothers me. I wouldn't mind it if it said "REPENT", or "LOVE", or "CHARITY" or "PEACE". I think religion might have a more constructive and relevant place in the world at large if it spent more time proclaiming these things than in proclaiming "JESUS" or "BUDDHA" or "ALLAH" or whomever. Wouldn't it be nice if all the churches emphasized and tried to reinforce the points most of us (Athiests included) can agree on rather than arguing about which long dead guy was the official bringer of the universal truths? Wouldn't it be nice if the emphasis was on the message rather than the messenger?
Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
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Jesus isn't important to Christianity for what he taught.
He is important to Christianity for what he did.
Without the atonement, Jesus becomes just another martyr who taught such-and-such. And there are plenty of those-- most of Jesus' teachings aren't that original.
The atonement, however, is. And it is the heart of Christianity-- the redemption of man to God, through the intermission of Jesus Christ.
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I'd argue that to most Christians he's important for both what he did and what he taught, unless one is one of those "Accept Jesus and be saved and nothing else matters" kind of Christian.
And again, if what you state is the reason for the word "JESUS" on the rooftop, my original "what's the point?" holds true. Presumably anyone who would recognize the name already knows what he did. If they don't, how are they going to glean that from the name alone? To whom are they speaking? If to one another, then it's the equivalent - in my mind - of talking loudly on your cellphone in an elevator. If to non-Christians, well it really comes across as simple partisan bragging.
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There seem to be a lot of partisan issues that go along with religion today. I had someone tell me because I was a democrat I was going to hell. I asked why, they said, because I didn't believe in jesus and I killed babies. I informed them that I had never killed anybody and that I did believe in jesus, but not blindly. Faith is all well and good, but to ignore reality is just plain stupid. We can't deny science, but we can blend it with our faith. There was a discussion with OSC across the forum about religion and the truth of the bible, and even he admitted a lot of it was stories and metaphors and you have to discover the hidden meanings rather then openly buying that the world is less the 5000 years old. There are points where religious attitudes get so overbearing that they are hypocritical. I am not sure if the giant jesus, or your light up sign is that point, but at the point where, because I have a different view of my faith, I am a baby killer, or those people who have bumper stickers that denounce non-christians or brag about the fact that they are christian, that is where you cross the line from good religious expression to intolerance, which means they are huge hypocrites... You can't even begin to count how many times, jesus preached tolerance, yet how many times did he go against abortion or democrats? It was practiced then(well maybe not democracy), yet he didn't talk about that, and unfortunetely many of today's religious fanatics have forgotten that tiny little fact.
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Well, if we're being literal, you really can't. You can merely count surviving recorded instances of his preaching tolerance.
Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
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quote:Whenever I see an Anti-Christian propaganda sheet on the back of a bumper, while the driver is swearing a blue streak, mostly using the Lord's name in vain, I laugh.
A) I've never seen a car covered in anti-christian propaganda before. Can you give some examples?
B) I don't really see why that would be hypocritical on the part of such a person. If you hate Christians (or Christianity, which is more likely), why would it be hypocritical to use the name of a Christian diety as a cussword? It seems to me that if that person otherwise claimed to be Christian, using their own diety as a cussword would be a lot more hypocritical.
Posts: 1751 | Registered: Jun 1999
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