posted
KoM, as far as I'm concerned, that's irrelevant. Harping on one issue is harping on one issue, and it's annoying regardless of the veracity of the statement.
Edit: I'm not agreeing that on your statements about the church. I'm saying if you were extolling the virtues of my favorite chocolate in the whole wide world and told someone else to stop going on about crappy American chocolate, I'd still think you were being inconsistant.
posted
Mother Theresa did not give her victims adequate health care, embezzled large sums - having been none too picky about where the money came from in the first place - and denied contraception to women who sought her aid. As for Abbe Pierre, have you considered closely his opinion on the Holocaust?
Porter, that is, in fact, holding my peace, which does not mean "shutting up" but "saying nothing controversial".
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:As for Abbe Pierre, have you considered closely his opinion on the Holocaust?
Yes. Apparently it didn't lead me to the same conclusions you drew. Have you studied the fact that he smuggled people out of France during the Nazi occupation?
Posts: 285 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Indeed it's not; the rest of her care was also not that great. But that's irrelevant, considering contraception was probably the single largest improvement she could have made in the lives of those women.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I put a decent meal and education a lot higher than contraception on the wants vs. needs hierarchy.
I can't believe you would use that point to judge Mother Theresa harshly on. In your judgement "contraception is the single best thing she could have done for the women" (paraphrased). That's your judgement and no one else's. I think she did a heck a lot of good either way.
AJ
And at least she was doing *something* What was the last thing you did for starving children in India??
posted
When was the last time I claimed to be an extra-specially good person, to the extent that my personal fantasies must plainly be true since they inspired me to such good works?
Edit : Oops, I just noticed our good mod's injunction. I'll shut up now.
[ April 19, 2005, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: King of Men ]
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Your opinion of Mother Teresa shows an incredible bias. She provided medical care and assistance to thousands of the poorest of the poor. Without her, most of them would have had no care at all.
Your priorities would have been different, you've made that clear. But it is unfair to criticize her for what she did not do when she did so much more than others.
When you criticize others for what they fail to do, be prepared to have others ask what you have done? That criticism in and of itself can and will be interpreted as a claim of your own goodness.
[ April 19, 2005, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
And most notably of all Mother Theresa *never* that I am aware of actually claimed herself to be "goodly extra special". Others lauded the accolades on her. I believe that as she got older she did occasionally use the public relations capital that they had given her for what she viewed as good causes, but only in extremely rare cases.
posted
Kayla, regarding your question about the Jewish viewpoint, I found this quote in Le Monde.
quote:Dans un communiqué, le ministre israélien des Affaires étrangères Silvan Shalom "exprime l'espoir que ce pape, compte tenu de son expérience historique, soit particulièrement attaché à une lutte sans compromis contre l'antisémitisme".
Le grand rabbin de Tel Aviv, Israël Meir Lau, survivant de l'Holocauste nazi, a dit avoir rencontré Ratzinger l'an dernier lors d'un symposium sur l'antisémitisme à New York, où le cardinal avait fermement condamné les manifestations antisémites.
"Il est connu comme un ami du peuple juif. J'espère, je prie et lui souhaite de suivre l'exemple de Jean Paul II (...) dans sa bonne attitude et son amitié envers les juifs du monde et l'Etat d'Israël en particulier", a déclaré Lau à Reuters.
I had to paste that; I'm leaving work. And now I have to run and pick people up. I shall translate as soon as I get back online.
Posts: 285 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Dans un communiqué, le ministre israélien des Affaires étrangères Silvan Shalom "exprime l'espoir que ce pape, compte tenu de son expérience historique, soit particulièrement attaché à une lutte sans compromis contre l'antisémitisme".
Le grand rabbin de Tel Aviv, Israël Meir Lau, survivant de l'Holocauste nazi, a dit avoir rencontré Ratzinger l'an dernier lors d'un symposium sur l'antisémitisme à New York, où le cardinal avait fermement condamné les manifestations antisémites.
"Il est connu comme un ami du peuple juif. J'espère, je prie et lui souhaite de suivre l'exemple de Jean Paul II (...) dans sa bonne attitude et son amitié envers les juifs du monde et l'Etat d'Israël en particulier", a déclaré Lau à Reuters.
Freebie translation:
In a press release, the Israeli foreign affairs minister Silvan Shalom "expresses his hope that this pope, having had his historic experience, is particularly committed to a fight against anti-semitism without compromise.
The great rabbi of Tel Aviv, Israel Meir Lau, a Nazi holocaust surviver, said he met Ratzinger last year at a symposium on anti-semitism in New York, where the cardinal firmly condemned anti-semitic manifestations (note: this could mean protests or it could mean anti-semitism in all it's forms.)
"He is known as a friend of the jewish people. I hope, I pray and I wish for him to follow the example of John Paul II (...) in his good attitude and his friendship toward the jews of the world and of the State of Israel in particular", Lau said to Reuters.
posted
just came back- heard more about the new pope- about deserting from the nazi's and such. sounds like an interesting figure so here's wishing him well. i do not like many of his positions and am particularly troubled by his wanting to keep power in rome and not empower the bishops more- if rome keeps the power then responsibility for every debacle like boston falls on rome... no matter how old the pope is.
but anyhoo- good luck and best wishes.
my points about forgiveness being different from accountability are not really grounded in this situation so i will not be too sad that no one understood.
kom- not describing yourself as good does not make less of your obligation to be good.
Posts: 8 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:How long have you studied French, out of curiosity?
Studied.... hmmm I suppose I *pretended* to study it all through high school but I didn't learn much. I learned to speak it mostly at home from my mom who was born in France. Incidentally I couldn't do that translation in reverse... my written french is abysmal!
Posts: 251 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Let me just say one thing. I've never cared who the pope is/was. I don't care because it doesn't affect me in any way. I'm not Catholic. I think if you're not Catholic, you don't have much of a right to say anything at all about who the pope is. I'll just leave things at that.
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
By say anything, I mean say anything negative about him. We can say all the good we want about him, but I think pointing fingers at what a church's leader did at any point in his life is just...pointless. (Oooh, man...look at that unintentional pun...ouch)
But really. I can't see how anything the Vatican has decided has really affected my life, so I choose not to worry about what goes on there.
[ April 20, 2005, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: Boris ]
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
KoM--after reading this thread you definitely are over opinionated. The rhetoric flows but without substance to document your rash generalizations.
Here's some advice from an old bum...
You know you're a big boy when you learn to wipe your oun butt, You know your a grown man when your mouth you can shut up.
But then, isn't it great that you can speak your mind?
Posts: 65 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote: But really. I can't see how anything the Vatican has decided has really affected my life, so I choose not to worry about what goes on there.
The new pope chose to make a point during the American presidential election- to American Bishops that they were not to serve communion-they were to deny the sacrement- to polititians who do not oppose abortion.
Regardless of whether you agree with this, appreciate his efforts, are happy or sad about this- to claim the pope- leader of over a billion catholics, has no impact on your life, is simply not true. You may not see the influence or understand the outcomes impacted, but the influence is there.
I live in boston and it impacts our community, what goes on in the catholic church, whether I am catholic or not.
I found it disturbing, reading these stories about his quite sophisticated use of political influence and power and then hearing him describe himself with his first words as pope as - "a simple, humble worker in the vineyard of the Lord."
Strange way to be simple and humble... Posts: 8 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote: The new pope chose to make a point during the American presidential election- to American Bishops that they were not to serve communion-they were to deny the sacrement- to polititians who do not oppose abortion.
I live in Idaho. There is one Catholic church that I know of within 30 miles of here. I'm not saying the Vatican's decisions don't affect anyone, just not me.
And Beanny, I know you were joking. I just thought I'd clear up what I said, since it could be misunderstood
[ April 20, 2005, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: Boris ]
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Idaho is a state and the President presides over all the states, no?
I get that the inluence of the Pope is not the biggest concern in your life, but when spiritual authority for 1/9th of the people on the panet is concentrated in one person- that person will have many significant impacts on you indirectly, whether or not you are aware of how HE is tied to the things impacting you or not.
This is why I am concerned about many things but wish him well.
Posts: 8 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wave]](graemlins/wave.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Hail]](graemlins/hail.gif)
