quote: I feel so bad for you, that you've grown up with occasionally scrawny, bedraggled WOWs. Here-- have one of mine, I've got plenty.
Not at all. My self esteem is fine, thank you.
But I see parents and teachers giving the kind of hyperbolic compliments that (whether they are sincere or not) children recognize as being unrealistic. Even sincere WOWs can damage a child's self esteem, if the *child* is able to make a comparison of their own work to someone who is obviously better.
Your example, as I said, is fairly neutral. It clearly shows you value the child's work, but doesn't make any attempt to compare it - favorably or unfavorably - against the child's other work, or someone else's work.
On the subject of heterogeneous grouping, something that has been looked at recently is heterogenous *age* grouping. The old one room schoolhouse had many children working at different levels, but they were not merely different abilities, they were also different ages. So expectations were less clear cut.
Today an 6th grade student operating at a 4th grade reading level has no one to compare themselves to than other 6th graders. By mixing age groups, a student could easily see people working at their own level of ability, but because there was an extra variable, it was not so obvious that one person was "ahead" of the other in terms of their own age.
While I'm not aware of any mixed age classes in public school, there are lots of programs where children of different grade levels are assigned "reading buddies" so a fifth grader can read easier books to a younger child who is at an appropriate age to appreciate them. This can give a struggling 5th grade reader a chance to get some practice reading books they otherwise might not be caught dead reading, while still retaining the authority of the "expert" 5th grader.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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"While I'm not aware of any mixed age classes in public school,"
There are. Usually, two grades are combined.
There is also looping, which I really like. The teacher has the same class for two years, then starts again at the younger level. Teachers who have done this claim they save about six weeks of "getting to know you" time. The students know the routine, and just start right in.
Sure, it does not always work out. Sometimes, the teacher is not the right match, and two years is too much. I would love to do this.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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Glenn, I think I'm understanding what you're getting at.
When I was pregnant with my first, I read a book given to me called "Bringing up Kids without Tearing Them Down" and it talked about how the extreme exuberance can actually be harmful.
One thing I try to do is praise my children honestly - I don't over gush on things, but I tell the truth and let my children know I respect their efforts on things. And of course, age is a factor - I am certainly more likely to say "Wow that's cool!" and hang it on the fridge if it's from my four year old rather than my 12 year old.
With the 12 year old, she doesn't need platitudes, she needs honest appraisal of her efforts and more than anything she needs me to pay attention to what she's done. So when she brings home a project she did at school, she doesn't get "WoW Natalie! That looks awesome! I'm so proud of you!" She gets "Tell me about this, why did you decide to do this particular thing." And if I think she's done a good job she is usually told something like "Good job, Honey that showed a lot of creativity."
Even with the four year olds, they can smell fake praise a mile away. When I get handed a picture, the first thing I always say is "Tell me about it." That way I get the child talking about what they drew and why. They don't get told "That's the most beautiful picture of a dinosaur I've ever seen!" They get "Thank you for my dinosaur picture. I'm going to put it here by my computer so I can look at it while I'm working."
I'm no psychologist or perfect parent, but I think it's worked very well so far. Natalie, while she does have her adolescent moments, is a very confident and self-assured young lady. She believes in herself, and she's not afraid to admit her faults - she came home yesterday and told me she got a B on a project and told me why - "Mr. S counted me off because it wasn't very creative and he's right - I could have used more graphics, and more color. I just didn't put as much effort in it as I could have." She also talked to me about a girl that is in her class who think's she's fat and Natalie said "I don't understand why she's obsessed over her weight Mom, she's still growing and trying to diet isn't going to do her any good. Besides, I think she looks great, and if she's fat so am I - and I know I'm not. I like the way I look and wouldn't want to be too skinny."
Now, she's by no means the perfect kid, but I think she's in a better place than a lot of other 12 year old girls. So, maybe I've done the occasional thing right as a mom. Then again, it's more likely that I've just been blessed with awesome kids. Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Belle, You touched on one of the of why even relatively genuine praise isn't necessarily a good thing for kids when it's by itself. More than approval, kids want/need attention and interest. A parent who just says "Wow!" when his kid shows him something that he made isn't giving this attention and interest. Talking about the thing, how he made it, why he chose to it one way instead of another, what he learned because of it gives him these things and shows that it's the process of creating and learning that is important, not just turning out products. Or, to take a school example, it's the learning and thinking that's important, not the grades.
I've found that the people who push empty praise/self-esteem tend to be telling a lot about themselves. For one thing, they rarely know what they are actually talking about and are the type of people who will get huffy if you ask them for the scientific or systematic support for their position. They are trying to give kids the world they want, where quality and standards aren't important. For another, they tend to be self-absorbed and thus somewhat lazy when it comes to other people. Empty, automatic praise is a really easy thing to give and it gets you off the hook of actually trying to relate to the child and what he is doing.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote: The moderator had a Midwest accent that made "garrison" sound like "gerrison."
*blink* I fail to see how these aren't pronounced exactly the same way, unless the "g" sound in "garrison" is a "j" sound in "gerrison." The vowel, as I've grown up pronouncing it, is exactly the same.
quote:Your example, as I said, is fairly neutral. It clearly shows you value the child's work, but doesn't make any attempt to compare it - favorably or unfavorably - against the child's other work, or someone else's work.
Comparison, com-shmarison. Fingerpainting isn't a competition. The child doesn't want an evaluation of every cat-and-dog-and-me drawing she makes; she wants interest and approval (which Belle posted an example of).
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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quote: And you're from what part of the country, Tom? Listen here.
I'm confused. The sound clip provided pronounced "garrison" exactly the way I pronounce it. But it's also exactly the way I would pronounce it if it were spelled "gerrison." How would you pronounce it if it were "gerrison?"
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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