posted
Oh, come on, Trisha. You do know what a joke is, right? And in the second place, I chose that name for a gaming forum originally. Among Napoleons, Blitzkriegs, and Panzer88s, it is not so out of place.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:I'm not sure I understand this. Or, more accurately, I'm pretty sure I don't understand this. What exactly is the Immaculate Conception?
The doctrine held by the Catholic Church that the Blessed Virgin Mary "in the first instance of her conception, by a singular privilege and grace granted by God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the human race, was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin."
quote:The person is truly conceived when the soul is created and infused into the body. Mary was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin at the first moment of her animation (...)
Does any Papal bull or other doctrine state that the soul is created at the moment the sperm cell penetrates the egg? If at some later point, presumably abortion is not murder until that happens.
[ January 06, 2005, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: King of Men ]
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posted
The page you're linking to is blocked by my work, Dag, so I can't check it to see if this question is answered. If so, just let me know and I'll read it when I get home tonight. If not, tell me--what are the practical implications of being free of original sin? How would Mary's day to day experience of life be different from that of a normal, tainted person?
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Why do you intentionally go out of your way to mock other's beliefs and treat them with no respect? Are you just trolling here? If so, please move on.
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quote:Why do you intentionally go out of your way to mock other's beliefs and treat them with no respect? Are you just trolling here? If so, please move on.
Belle, "bull" is actually the name of a particular type of document issued by the Pope. He wasn't being insulting this time. "For practical purposes a bull may be conveniently defined to be 'an Apostolic letter with a leaden seal,' to which one may add that in its superscription the pope invariably takes the title of episcopus, servus servorum Dei."
posted
Er, what did I say that time? I certainly wasn't trolling, I thought I was quite politely asking for clarification on a point of Catholic doctrine.
Edit : Gah, too slow.
[ January 06, 2005, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: King of Men ]
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posted
KoM, I'm not sure if you're familiar with the idiom, but "bull" is often used here as short for "bullsh*&." I think Belle thought you were using the term in that manner.
posted
I'd never really thought about it either until I was reading this thread. It was one of those things I'd always been aware of, but had never considered the implications of. Dana, can you shed any light on this?
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posted
Oh, KoM, the Immaculate Conception doctrine implicitly holds that belief that the soul enters at the time of conception. I don't know where the doctrine was first explicitly promulgated.
posted
Immaculate Conception is a Roman Catholic doctrine, so anything I say will be academic rather than personal belief, (and most of my RC doctrinal education is pre-reformation), but I can give it a whirl. One of the effects of original sin is that it makes all humans prone to sin. Augustine postulated that after the fall humans were no longer able not to sin (non posse non peccare). So, one of the effects should be that Mary would be less prone to, and theoretically able to avoid completely, actual sin during her lifetime.
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posted
On a total tangent, where does the word 'bull' for Papal communications come from, anyway? Any relation to 'bulletin'?
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quote:A bulla was originally a circular plate or boss of metal, so called from its resemblance in form to a bubble floating upon water (Lat. bullire, to boil). In the course of time the term came to be applied to the leaden seals with which papal and royal documents were authenticated in the early Middle Ages, and by a further development, the name, from designating the seal, was eventually attached to the document itself.
quote:The page you're linking to is blocked by my work, Dag, so I can't check it to see if this question is answered. If so, just let me know and I'll read it when I get home tonight. If not, tell me--what are the practical implications of being free of original sin? How would Mary's day to day experience of life be different from that of a normal, tainted person?
The doctrine explicitly holds that she was still subject to the physical consequences of the Fall.
quote:Immaculate Conception is a Roman Catholic doctrine, so anything I say will be academic rather than personal belief, (and most of my RC doctrinal education is pre-reformation), but I can give it a whirl.
Sure, a whirl was all I was going for. Interesting whirl, by the way!
quote:The doctrine explicitly holds that she was still subject to the physical consequences of the Fall.
Very interesting! Thanks Dag.
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I certainly wasn't trolling, I thought I was quite politely asking for clarification on a point of Catholic doctrine.![[Smile]](smile.gif)
