posted
Jar Head, I know I said I'd stay out of this, and I'm not here to "pick another fight," as you put it, I just want to clarify one thing -- I, nor anybody else, never said that you were what got me down in the first place. I'm not THAT sensitive. I'm down because I've had a rough week. Thank you, I appreciate your condolences... and that's why I'm not in the best of spirits today. I didn't mean to imply that you're the reason for my low spirits. Because you're not. But you're not really helping them any.
quote: Until you have the personal strength to muck out the stalls, shoot the sick dog, and stand up to the bullies never question my maturity.
I have done all of those, and I have never questioned your maturity.
You haven't shown us any yet.
Or do you think the fact that kacard posted here was a coincidence?
Let me guess....you don't know who that is, or why you should care...
People can come to the same conclusions from different avenues of thought, you know, so just because your "suggestions" sound superficially like those of others here doesn't mean that you are like them, or that they agree with your other argument.
Personally I would have made the call in the first place, but if I wasn't sure about it then I would resent anyone attempting to force me into a course of action I didn't agree with.
That is the real issue here, for those of you not bright enough to realize that....
posted
My point fits well with JarHead's. My Father died in January of '97 I've watched my mom , and I've seen all of this first hand. Which is why I stated that A: You should put aside your feelings for your mom. B: You should call her.
B1: You should call her because what if she does remember you? What if it helps her take her mind off things? What if it helps bring more light into her life for a brief moment? I personally have seen all of these things happen to my mom, and it was all from a little someone that didn't even know her.
Dungflinging aside, I still think you should call her, not to talk about how sorry you are about the death in the family, but to talk to her, and to comfort her. To help carry some of the burden she carries. And just talking to her about random events and her remembering who you are will do more than you can imagine for her.
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posted
The widow probably has more serious things to be upset about than whether or not you call. Unless she has some very fond memories of you as a child, it's unlikely that the lack of a phone call (especially if a nice card is sent) will be devastating. Furthermore, the point that Katharina brought up about having to make small talk with a stranger seem valid to me as an introvert. I admit that I haven't lost anyone close to me, but when I am very sad, there's a pretty limited set of people I want to have a conversation with. On the other hand, most people are probably more extroverted and might actually want to talk to anyone who's willing. The problem is that you don't know this person--though if your mother isn't lying to you, a call may be appreciated.
Are you more bothered because you have been manipulated or because you don't want to have this conversation? If it's just the manipulation that bothers you, you might consider asking the widow not to discuss you with your mother, including answering any questions about your conversation (whether or not you make the last part explicit is up to you). Perhaps this is too much pressure to put on her at this time, and of course you certainly don't want to let it slip that you were manipulated into calling her. But you might be able to have it both ways--spare this woman's feelings while preventing your mother from using this tactic again.
You could also just send her a card but include your phone number so she can call if she truly wants to talk to you.
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posted
A grown-up would not have called to offer condolences to someone they had met as a child almost 20 years ago but don't remember ever speaking to. It has nothing to do with maturity.
If my Mom had mentioned something like this, I would probably send a card. To me, a phone call would seem very contrived.
posted
Shigosei, I disagree... I don't think it's fair to leave the phonecall up to Kathleen by putting a number in a card. Kathleen might feel she's obligated to call, and she definitely has other things on her mind right now. If PSI wants to call, that's fine, but she needs to keep that ball in her court. Kathleen doesn't need an added pressure.
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quote:You should call her because what if she does remember you? What if it helps her take her mind off things? What if it helps bring more light into her life for a brief moment?
There are many people - some of who have posted here - that would feel miserable having to talk to someone they don't know when they've suffered a terrible loss. So calling might make her feel worse.
The card is the best compromise between both types of people.
posted
I too vote for the card. Perfect balance. I also think KHJ's advice for dealing with a mother is excellent.
Not knowing how to deal with this does not make you immature, IMO. My mother did this until her death (bless her heart, I love her still). She would also tell me exactly what to say, like a parrot. Maybe it's a common mom thing, especially when your mom loves you a lot and -- maybe? -- you yourself are a bit of an introvert. I am.
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posted
What , you think that you are the only one giving advice here that has lost somene?
Guess again.
I still wouldn't to have to bother with a bunch of calls from people I don't even know when I was coping with a very personal loss. I would, because someone has to, and you can't be rude to people who are calling to offer condolences because they are doing what they see as a comfort, even though nothing really comforts you......
But a card was the best thing to do when I went through this, it shows concern without obligating anyone to make small talk when they are bleeding inside.
posted
I would bet Raventh. And I'm all for the card or flowers too. When Mom died the lasty thing I needed was people I hardly know of to call me and tell they're sorry for my loss. I needed the people who were really close to me to be there for me, period. So since you don't know what type is Kathleen, I would go for a card. As it has been said, it's the best compromise.
[ November 30, 2004, 06:09 AM: Message edited by: Anna ]
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posted
It is funny how everyone handles things differently. I hadn't lived at home for a while when my mother died, so most of the local people were strangers to me. I did know, however, that my mom had been a little bit lonely. My dad was working 12 hour days then, and her two oldest had left the nest. She had to work full-time and she'd never had to do that before, and our neighborhood was kind of divided between those living in the big houses on the hill and those in the townhouses at the bottom, and since we were in the middle of my dad building up the business, we were in the townhouses at the bottom. Socially, my mother felt left out. She didn't have a lot of health problems that kept her from doing things before she died, so it bothered me sometimes that I knew she was a little bit lonely.
Anyway, the point of this is that when she died and two dozen women came out of the woodwork to tell me how sorry they were and bring us food and try to say something nice about my mom whom they barely knew, it pissed me off. I didn't want to create conversation with them, and I didn't need the supposed comfort of a bunch of strangers. If they liked my mom so much, why weren't they around when she was alive? I didn't need them now, but she did then. And since I knew she felt left out sometimes when she was alive, this sudden flow of concern was hard to believe.
posted
I just re-read that..I didn't mean that to be so....touchy, I guess.
It just bothered me that a lot of perple here are saying I KNOW...blah blah blah.." when in fact everyone deals with grief in a different manner, and a card is an accepted way of experssing condolences.
I HATED getting phone calls at my uncles house when my gradndma died, even though I tried to keep that from being obvious. Most of the people who called were strangers to me...same thing with people at the funeral. I didn't know them, and wanted to just be left alone with my family to greive....but I repected their wishes and their grief, so I smiled and shook hands and listened to their stories.
Sorry, I didn't mean to take that out on anyone else here....I won't delete it because I don't like it when people do that, but I really didn't mean it to sound that way.
Please just keep in mind that people greive in may different ways.
posted
Pardon me for trying to explain where I'm coming from, and why I'm saying what I am.
PSI: Take all of what you see here, and do what you 'feel' you should do with her. I still suggest leaving out how you feel about your mom in this situation. Your mom is another situation entierly and Please treat it as such.
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posted
I have already apoligized...if it isn't enough...
Well, there is nothing more that I can do...or rather, that I am willing to do.
It isn't rocket science to realize that other people have been in the same situation too.....and by mentioning your loss as a way of validating your ponits it disregards that fact taht ALL of us are speaking aboyut his from our own perspective....
And that ever one of us has lost SOMEONE.
I do agree with you about mot mentioning your mother, if you do talk to the woman...that poor woman has enought to thin k about, so I don't think she needs any further complications from someone who doesn't really know her at all.
But I would mention it to your mom, that is for sure.
Just remember that people say "I know what you're going through," because, while people deal with it in different ways, the tragic incident boils down to being the same each time... death. Anybody who's lost someone (and I don't mean to single people out, I mean, everyone) knows that. They know it's difficult for everyone to different degrees. Nobody meant to be patronizing.
Of course, I can't speak for everyone, but I don't think anyone meant to be patronizing. I know I didn't. If I came off that way, I apologize.
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posted
(((raventh))) You do not have to feel agressed or something. I'm sure everyone realizes that everyone is different confronted to loss and grieve. My experiment is not more significative than yours. If I though that everyone reacted as I did, I would say "leave this poor woman alone". Since it's not the case, I suggest a compromise with a card or flowers : a gesture, but nothing too invasive.
EDIT to add : thank you Raia. I always hated the little sentence "I know how you're feeling" because, bloody h*ll, that's not true ! When I see how me and my sisters reacted when my mother died, it was totally different for the three of us, and we lost the same person who played the same role for us... I guess it doesn't help that a few days after my mom's death, someone I knew from the choral group said "oh, I understand you. My cat died last week, so I totally know how you're feeling. " But thanks to you it takes more sense (and I say it with absolutely no irony)
[ November 30, 2004, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: Anna ]
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posted
The funny part about that BC is that it is the single most intelligent thing you have ever said here.
Not that that is saying much....
I said I was sorry the first time because I realized I was too touchy about it the first in the first post. I realize it is different for everyone, that was sort of my point....all these people telling everyone else why it is the same as what they went throuhg...
It touched a nerve, that's all....I know Raventh (and everyone else in here...welll, almost everyone.. ) didn't mean it that way...
Just like I didn't mean to sound snippy in the first place, but I did.
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Maybe it's a common mom thing, especially when your mom loves you a lot and -- maybe? -- you yourself are a bit of an introvert. I am.
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