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I'm not advocating this gratuitousness, I'm saying there are is a market for this kind of thing. I have not seen Alexander. However, presenting Alexander as merely a strong, straight warrior would also be a mistake.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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NFL, I find it really odd that you believe 'Platoon' is 'anti-Vietnam'. I have a good idea why you believe it is, but I'd be curious to hear it from you rather than guess, NFL.
For what it's worth, Stone is a veteran of Vietnam and also used a Marine Captain who was in Vietnam, during the shooting of Platoon, to help him recapture what it was like in Vietnam for some soldiers.
The analysis of 'Alexander' as some kind of gay propaganda was inevitable. I knew after seeing it that some people would bring that from the movie, but, again, I don't understand how that is possible. Never once in the movie is Alexander's homosexuality glorified for the sake of propaganda, that I could see--unless you feel like Alexander being gay was propaganda in and of itself, and as others have noted, Alexander was, in fact, 'gay' and lived during a time and in a culture when being so was not the stigma that it is today.
Even had the film been perfect, I don't see anyone coming away from the film wanting to be like Alexander and be gay. He wasn't glorified in the movie and neither was his sexuality.
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As to the Athenians, the number of debaucherous parties they threw to talk about philosophy at belies anything you may have read about eschewing pleasure.
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HE was Alexander the Great!!! Emphasizing the Homosexual aspect of his life cannot help but be glorifying homosexuality. The movie turned the conquest of the world into a gay love story about a boy running away from his mother with his boyfriend. Were was the cleaving of Gordian Knot? Where were the cities he built, the schools and libraries and such?
It was a careful cross section of the life to make a point, well the point is as wrong as the portrayal, the greatest army in the history of the world is ours and it does not run on guy guy action. (Maybe the Navy but not the Army or Marines)
Posts: 117 | Registered: Nov 2004
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I believe Aristotle actually says as much early in the movie, no? I assumed this is why Alexander and whatsisname never actually 'did it'.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote: NFL, I find it really odd that you believe 'Platoon' is 'anti-Vietnam'. I have a good idea why you believe it is, but I'd be curious to hear it from you rather than guess, NFL.
Because of how he depicts the war.
quote: For what it's worth, Stone is a veteran of Vietnam and also used a Marine Captain who was in Vietnam, during the shooting of Platoon, to help him recapture what it was like in Vietnam for some soldiers.
I know that, but that doesn't mean anything. By that same implied logic Kurt Vonnegut didn't write anti-war books because he served in World War II. Hiring an expert doesn't mean that the expert isn't biased nor does it affect the bias of the director.
I didn't really see Alexander as gay propoganda, I just saw it as boring out of my mind.
Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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JH, to glorify something, you have to make it seem 'great' and worthy of emulating. I didn't see Stone do this any more than he glorified Alexander. I mean, you say it yourself, and you echo one of my reasons for disliking the movie, and I've also heard the same kind of complaint from reviewers, too, but watching that movie, it sure is mystifying what 'great' qualities Alexander had or what made him great. As I said in my initial post, he spends a lot of time being distraught.
I am right with you that the film needed to spend more time showing his accomplishments and less time on stupid Freudian bs.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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I'd just like to point out that the theme of homosexuality runs through most of ancient Greek life. If you even skim Plato’s dialogues you’ll find evidence that it was an accepted part of the culture.
In the Theaetetus:
quote:Theaetetus: Well, Socrates... I ought to tell you about a remarkable boy I have met here... And if he were beautiful, I should be extremely nervous of speaking of him with enthusiasm, for fear I might be suspected of being in love with him. (143 e)
In the Protagoras:
quote:Friend (to Socrates): It's pretty obvious that you've been hunting the ripe and ready Alcibades... And how is he disposed towards you? Socrates: Pretty well, I think... You're right of course, I was just with him. (309a-b)
Any one who studies ancient philosophy (a course I'm currently taking) or has studied the classics (I have two friends who are classics majors) learns pretty quickly that the ancient Greeks didn't feel the same way towards love and sex as we today.
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I don't know what to tell you. Other vet reviewers that I've read have said it's the most realistic potrayal of Vietnam they've seen. I know depicting soldiers as being cowardly or less than chivalrous is a sore point with some people. (Note that I didn't see 'We were soldiers then', and haven't read any reviews of that.)
I guess I could always ask my dad, who was infantry in Vietnam, but I don't think I want to bring up bad memories for him.
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Great people never embody true "greatness", whatever that may be. Heros are often in the right place at the right time.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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No Dag, they didn't show either of those important events. I only went because I needed something to do and there weren't any better movies out.
Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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They did show some big boobs (a good implant job) and you get to see Colin Ferelle's (sp?) junk. If you pay attention there is some outer labia as well! The previews were not only all the best parts, they were better then the movie. Just download the trailers and you will have everything worthwhile about the movie.
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Maybe I left too soon if I missed boobs! However nothing can make up for all that gay kissing. I wish my theater had kept Team America a bit longer I was too late trying to see it, now I have to wait for the DVD!
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