posted
i strongly suggest counseling for yourself if you don't have a solid group of friends around to turn to. i think ending this relationship is not only good for you, but for her, too. to stay with her will only perpetuate the problem.
i hope you find strength and comfort when you least expect it.
Posts: 3936 | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
Lalo, I think you could have stopped after paragraph two or three, and your point would have been sufficiently made. I recommend that you edit the post before someone reads it whose opinion of you still has room to decline.
[ June 08, 2004, 04:09 AM: Message edited by: A Rat Named Dog ]
Posts: 1907 | Registered: Feb 2000
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The fact that beatnix wanted to make his marriage work, does NOT MAKE HIM WEAK. (Or any of the other nasty things you said.) It makes him a very STRONG person, to be willing to work so hard to save his marriage. Especially since there are kids involved!
posted
By the way ... beatnix, I don't envy you what you're going through, but you're impulses are right. You want to leave her, but you want to try to help her at the same time. I think that shows you're a decent guy. So leave her, yes. Don't let her talk you into signing on for more pain and disappointment. But at the same time, you CAN be good to her in other, much smaller ways, and hopefully, she can learn a bit from your example.
If I know people at all, then chances are, she won't learn a thing. But it's a good man that tries, even in the face of a miserable, exploitative person like her. I applaud you.
Posts: 1907 | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Being suicidal, talking about how everyone would be better off without her - this is more emotional self-indulgence, and it helps blow everything so vastly out of proportion that she doesn't have to deal with her true sins at this time.
Bingo.
Still doesn't mean she won't irrevocably hurt herself, but yes, it can be a very effective way of not dealing. Overreact, and who can agree with you? It's a way of controlling others' reactions.
The firecracker-in-a-powdercake nature of this is exactly why it's critical to have the help of a trained, objective third person -- counsellor, therapist, what have you. This is way too much to take on yourself, beatnix. (Although a word to the wise -- it can be tempting for you to do something similar, to take on an unrealistic role of putting yourself in the savior/martyr role all over again. Don't do it. Focus on the prosaic and practical, keep your kids safe, keep her as safe as it is possible, and stay the hell away from the dramatics, yourself.)
I'm sorry you have to go through this. Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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You're a good person. You are worth having the love of someone and have that love be a positive force in your life. And your children deserve the same. Your wife (soon to be ex-wife) is on a different path. You can't fix her and you certainly can't fix the influence she'll have on your children if you let her. You've proven that you are strong enough to put up with a lot. Now it's time to be strong for those kids and make sure that their lives aren't filled with the kind of instability they must certainly have been experiencing up to now.
And you deserve some stability as well. Home is not supposed to be about strife and walking on egg shells. It's not about trying to WIN the faithfulness of the other person. If the marriage doesn't start from the ASSUMPTION of fidelity, love and mutual respect, it probably shouldn't start at all. But once started, it's a mess.
Things will get better. And you really can't help her if she doesn't first help herself. In the meantime, you need to deal with the situation NOW.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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I feel for you man. I really do. My wife had her boyfriend over to her home for another 2 nights this past weekend, so I know what you are going through.
I second what everyone else has said -- you are a good man, holding up incredibly well in a terrible situation.
If you ever need to, drop me a line -- e-mail's in the profile.
Posts: 1323 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Awww geez. I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this Beatnix. What Ralphie said was right on. First this woman cheats on you, and now she actually has the guts to come crying to you because she got burned. Tell her to seek help from someone other than yourself. If you're truly ready to end the marriage, then it's time to start changing the relationship. There needs to be distance between the two of you. Your relationship once you're divorced is going to become a business partnership that produces healthy, happy children. This partnership doesn't mean that you're responsible for your ex.
quote:I recommend that you edit the post before someone reads it whose opinion of you still has room to decline.
Heh. Wow. Classy, Geoff.
Beatnix, I'm not sure why my post was edited -- probably because I used curse words, as in, "I can't believe you're putting up with this kind of shit."
In any case, allow me to reiterate the point I made last night.
Divorce her immediately. She clearly has no respect for your intelligence, feelings, or family -- I mean, my god, when she answers his door and tells you she's not having a sexual relationship with him, I can't imagine you still harbor any delusions of love and respect for you.
If you're feeling the need to be a giver, stand by her, counsel her, help her -- it's a noble thing to do, and I commend you for considering it. But make sure she knows you're divorcing her. I'm cynical enough that I see her latest sob story as a desperate attempt to keep you from taking her for all she's worth -- divorce her now, before subjecting, for one, your children to any more of this chaos. Also, I presume you understand you can't have any more sexual contact with her -- you have the moral high ground right now, don't muddy the waters.
Also, as I said in the last post (and what probably annoyed Rivka), grow a spine. You should have divorced her the instant you knew, for certain, that she was cheating on you and the relationship was unrepairable. That you haven't only contributes to her understanding of you as a weak man to be taken advantage of. End the furious complaining and take action -- otherwise, you'll never win her respect, nor anyone else's. I realize this is tough, man, and I'm more than understanding of your need for counsel and sympathy, but there's only so far you can stretch the sympathy period without taking any actual action.
That said, damn. I'm glad I'm not in your shoes. You're in a hard place.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Edit:
I should add, I realize you're already taking these actions, and I applaud you for it. I'm just repeating the general gist of my above, deleted post which put these ideas in terms of laudatory sympathy rather than suggestion.
posted
This is the second time in 24 hours that someone makes an offensive post, the mods delete it, and the person feels that means it needs to be posted again.
posted
Hmm. Strange. Granted, I'm a bit fuzzy on the details of last night, but as I recall, this is essentially a repeat of what I said in the post previous. Only, of course, sans the occasional curse word. I had no idea mild (and appropriate, given the gravity of the situation) cursing brought down the wrath of the moderator, Geoff, and Rivka.
But then, it may be possible that I phrased my sympathies differently last night and I'm forgetting how I did so.
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I think the phrasing is different - it wasn't the mild profanity that was offensive about the other one. I only read the other one once. I liked this post, mostly.
I didn't read your previous post, so I have no idea what others found offensive. However the "grow a spine" comment in this one is a bit harsh. Have you ever been married? Have you ever created children with another person? Years of putting your all into another person who you plan to grow old with is difficult to walk away from, even when the other person has done terrible things. I don't think it would be wise for Beatnix to stay with this woman, and obviously you don't either. However, try to give your support in a more understanding way.
quote:I didn't read your previous post, so I have no idea what others found offensive. However the "grow a spine" comment in this one is a bit harsh. Have you ever been married? Have you ever created children with another person? Years of putting your all into another person who you plan to grow old with is difficult to walk away from, even when the other person has done terrible things. I don't think it would be wise for Beatnix to stay with this woman, and obviously you don't either. However, try to give your support in a more understanding way.
Well said, Space Opera.
beatnix, I hope everything works out for you for the best, even though it is so hard going through it right now.
Posts: 5771 | Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
beatnix, I've got nothing to add in the way of advice that someone else hasn't already said, but I feel for you. Just keep hanging in there; things will get better.
Posts: 4534 | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:You should have divorced her the instant you knew, for certain, that she was cheating on you and the relationship was unrepairable.
Beatnix has made his decisions with deference to the side of preserving his marriage, at great emotional cost to himself. It wasn't even a month ago that he wasn't sure the relationship was unrepairable. While unfaithfulness by someone I was dating would probably be a guaranteed deal-breaker, it wouldn't be an automatic marriage-ender for me. This doesn't mean it wouldn't suck, or be emotionally devastating. It means that getting married means being willing to work through horrendous problems that unmarried people can dispose of much more simply.
Beatnix has shown incredible patience and emotional maturity, and has never once lost sight of the fact that his children have a life-defining stake in his actions here. It sounds like he won't be able to save his marriage, and I don't fault him at all for that. I applaud him for the thought and consideration he's given this wrenching decision at great cost to himself.
This isn't about "growing a spine." It's about making a choice a lot more difficult than most people can imagine.
Dagonee Edit: And beatnix, I'm sorry for everything she's put you through. You're a rock.
posted
Taking a quick break form the hospital right now. She took a few pills this afternoon and we've been dealing with that all day. Not enough to hurt herself but enough to scream out for help. Is this a good thing, nope, but she's getting the help she needs and that is important. Does it suck, yep. Am I dealing with it? the best I can. Just another chapter in the soap opera my life has become.
To Lalo - Your spine would have broken 10 times over with what I've dealt with. Mine is frail and weak but still solid. I appreciate you're input but it would be better served if you had any clue as to what you were talking about. Yes, our marriage is most likely beyond any repair and yes the sight of her disgusts me right now but five years ago I took a vow before my family, friends and God to love this woman no matter what. It takes a lot of sacrifice, dedication and sometimes pain to live up to that. Try it once and then we'll talk more.
posted
Beatnix, just remember to keep taking care of yourself, ok? I'm glad that your wife is now going to get the help she needs, which is hopefully going to take some worry and burdens off your shoulders.
Excellant response to Lalo as well. If that's not proof you have a spine, I don't know what is.
posted
*applause in the beatnix's general direction*
Well said dearheart. You are a good and honorable man with so much strength and patience. Your children will be proud to have a dad like you.
I know I can't understand what you're going through, but please know that I feel for you just the same. (((beatnix)))
Posts: 6415 | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
beatnix, I'm sorry she is making things so very difficult. I am very glad that she is getting the help she needs -- and that it is NOT coming from you.
posted
My error, then. I mistook your longstanding tolerance of her obvious disrespect as a sign of weakness, not strength -- I'm glad to hear I was wrong.
Good on you for standing by her through this.
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Beatnix, this will sound horrible, but her taking those pills may be a huge blessing. Being hospitalized means she’s got a better chance of getting the help she needs, and the onus is off you to talk her into it.
I admire the way you’ve handled yourself through this. Keep taking care of yourself and your kids. You’re in my prayers.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Whoa, dude, I thought I was actually being fairly decent to you there, especially given I haven't yet heard any other side of the story and I've publically admitted error in judgement while submitting a compliment to your Christian forgiveness. How could I have possibly offended you?
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I agree that this is a good thing in the fact that she will get the help she needs. It is much more than I am qualified to handle and I am not really the person she needs inher face about it all right now.
and for those of you who think I'm a fool. you may be right but just for your info. I have a lawyer currently drawing up divorce papers. I am also very, very disgusted with her behavior and doubt that I will ever forgive her for what she has done. But... I come from a family where commitment, loyalty and determination are as much a part of who we are as is the color of our hair. So, although I had suspicions about what was going on those suspicions were never completely verrified until this past week. So in that time that I had, oh what was it? "longstanding tolerance of her obvious disrespect" it wasn't about disrespect it was about hope, giving the benefit of the doubt, love, understanding, ect... In short it was about marraige.
Posts: 1294 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Lalo, it's not like we've ever seen you seriously back down from an expressed opinion before
Believe it or not, there really are consequences to your actions. If you want to behave the way you usually do, fine, but don't be surprised when people don't fall down and kiss your feet when you finally deign to cede a point to them.
Posts: 1907 | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
So, if I want to get people to fall at my feet, I need to hold staunchly oppositional opinions and not back down, no matter what, for years? I'm not sure it's worth the payoff, but I'll have to think about it. People falling at my feet would be nice, but it's a lot of work. And you know that once at my feet, they'd just end up getting in the way. . .
posted
(((((Beatnix))))) You're strong and courageous, and you deserve happiness. I hope you'll get closer of it soon. Posts: 3526 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
"it was about hope, giving the benefit of the doubt, love, understanding, ect... In short it was about marraige."
So true. Sometimes you can make it through the fire, and sometimes you can't. You tried your best, and you are a good friend to her,even after the pain she has caused you. I am so sorry to hear this whole story, but I hope you can move on and heal.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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