posted
Figured it was about time, what with trying to become a famous author and all. I need an efficient, professional looking page for. . . well, getting the word about me out there.
Elements I'd like to have:
Home Page-- gives news about me & writing; abbreviated blog entry? Links to other areas (obviously)
Forum-- not sure about this one; how much mem/bandwidth does a forum need? I don't expect very much. . . Saxon? Jon Boy?
Blog-- pretty obvious
Writing topics-- also obvious; contains links to free articles, or my own musings.
Pictures-- pretty, pretty pictures. . .
I need help from step one all the way to the finished product. So* how do I start?
[ July 12, 2006, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: Scott R ]
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
I have no idea how to tell you to start. One thing is for sure, though; being familiar with Hatrack gives you a definite advantage, a great example to model. I hope OSC will give you a link once you're up and running. Good luck!
Posts: 232 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Forum: if you use an externally hosted board, it takes no bandwidth at all, and that may be the best solution until you find yourself swarmed.
Blog: Same points.
To start: Register any and all domain names you're considering using, and all popular permutations (.com, .net, .org should ALL be registered). Domain names are so cheap (especially in bulk) that there's no reason to risk losing traffic because you wanted to save five bucks a year.
You'll also want to research hosting options, and try to get an estimate of the space and bandwidth you'll need, as well as consider what services you'll need your hosting to accomodate. Going to need a MySQL database? Frontpage extension support? etc. etc. etc.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Lots of hosts have decent free tools, provided you like their templates. If you're not averse to using pre-designed templates, check out major hosts and take a look at the samples they advertise.
A number of people on Hatrack here also do paid web design.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I actually suggest the latter. It's a lot cheaper than it used to be, and when done well, is invaluable. Unless you want to fiddle and learn it yourself (to get a professional looking site, this will take a great, great deal of work), it is much easier to get someone else to do it who will set it up so it is easy to update.
I can say this because while I do it, I am not accepting new clients at this time and so am not in the running.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I'm going through some of the neo-pro authors' websites I know, examining how they go about things. I decided I don't really like templates, and am endeavoring to create my own site using Frontpage.
posted
I would reccomend some form of content management system (CMS). I use Joomla at www.princeclan.org. It's very flexible, but it may not be feasible if you're not comfortable with PHP. I don't have a blog-style site, but I know it's capable of it.
I use SMF for the forum software, but forums are basically an afterthought on my site. It's good software, though - fast, secure, and reliable.
The look and feel is basically totally flexible, and there are a lot of templates and themes out there to control the look and feel.
It's well worth getting a solid core design and structure before making lots of content. Otherwise you'll find yourself changing dozens of files whenever you want to adjust the site.
In general, I'm in favor of putting as much content in the database as possible. CMS makes this feasible.
Edit: hosting that supports all this should be available for about 10 dollars a month if you pay in advance.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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You CAN call me 'Scott,' Tom. Really, I think we've moved beyond formalities.
Hey, it's an experiment. Can you recommend something better than Frontpage that doesn't cost me anything?
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Better in what way? Because, y'know, I consider NOTEPAD better than Frontpage for most web design.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
That said, our webmaster recently died and so I've been doing our website -- and it turns out she did it primarily in Frontpage. *cringe* So I've been working in Frontpage for the last two weeks.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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FrontPage is buggy. Publishing from FrontPage, because of said bugginess, can be a nightmare. Installing FrontPage extensions on a site is buggy and problematic, and frequently has to be done over and over and over and over and over and over again. And it creates bloated code. I speak from personal experience - I used to use FrontPage, then after I switched to Dreamweaver, my pages cut in size from 1/2 to 1/3, which also corresponds to faster loading time.
I would also recommend notepad over FrontPage.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Better, to me, in this context, means "Quickly available, and paid for by someone else."
What's so awful about Frontpage? I'm not a pro, though I wouldn't mind learning. And that's part of this great adventure-- learning (on the cheap) what to do and what I like.
I'm keeping an open mind here. I'd use Notepad if I could, but alas-- I can't code worth diddly squat.
posted
You're welcome, Scott. I used FrontPage for a couple of hellish years. Fahim convinced me to switch to Dreamweaver, and I've been much happier since. It has a steeper learning curve, but the benefits far outweigh that.
You *can* write code in notepad. I have a friend who designs code professionally, and it's what she does. For most people, though, it's much longer to do it that way simply because of typing everything in and figuring stuff out. I suppose I could do it that way if I had to, but luckily, I don't. I'd much rather use Dreamweaver.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Installing FrontPage extensions on a site is buggy and problematic, and frequently has to be done over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Well, in all fairness, we've been running FP2002 and Sharepoint extensions on IIS6 for a while now without any problems. So either I'm more competent than most sysadmins -- which I highly doubt -- or the new framework is a substantial improvement.
I use notepad for most of my code, actually. But Dreamweaver and Adobe GoLive are the two packages to beat. Frontpage does have some unique advantages, but it can create bloated, buggy code that's highly frustrating to clean up in the event that something needs to be changed.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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I told you I'd help you with PR matters. E-mail me. Don't have time to go into details now.
But the short version:
If you are paying for a hosting service anyway, you could always use an open-source content management system. The learning curve wouldn't be that much more than for Dreamweaver or FrontPage, and it would be much easier to maintain (and redesign).
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
I would recommend WordPress, as well. I had no problems setting it up on the very first try. I can't say the same thing for MoveableType, although subsequent installs have been very successfull albeit experimental. There are a lot of good free forums out there like phpBB, YaBB, or OpenBB. Make sure and get a host that allows for PHP and MySQL for these ones.
And just to join the bandwagon, (where's my trumpet) I just spent the past week updating and validating a site that had been done in Frontpage. It wasn't pretty, and it wasn't fun. There is no love-loss between me and Frontpage in whatever incarnation it decides to take. I use Dreamweaver, btw.
Good luck with your new site.
Posts: 822 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Drupal will give you a forum, blog, home page and album functionality -- plus a whole lot more.
I know a graphic design firm and an academic info systems dept. that have built their sites using it so I trust that it's a fairly robust platform/community.
Don't know how easy it is to do the back-end stuff, though.
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Link to some sites you like the look of, and some sites you like the layout of (often not the same thing at all). Especially if you like certain kinds of looks it may be possible for someone here such as myself to quickly whip up an example idea or two.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
The general take on Joomla/Mambo v. Drupal is that Joomla is easier for non-developers to set up and maintain. It's got slightly easier to use tools for adding content. It also has more add-on modules available for it. I can attest to the fact that it's easy to develop for.
Drupal gives more fine-grained user access control, better categorization tools (Joomla is limited to two levels right now) and is a little more robust.
Either will likely work fine for you. If I were picking one now, I'd probably pick Drupal, because I figure if the power is there under the hood I can get to it.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Drupal's also already all set up for best practices usage of CSS to a degree Mambo's not, yet.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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1.) there is a 508-compliant fork of Mambo that is far better in this regard. To date, it lags about two weeks beyond Mambo releases.
2.) The next version will have much better XHTML compliance.
3.) Even in the current main version, the areas where compliance is lacking are in very specific areas where it does not lead to serious issues.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I'm not so much talking compliance, even with accessibility, as the ability to make best practices choices for layout across an entire site (including modules), which is lagging a bit further behind than those developments.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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I know the person that runs it personally, and he can design a great-looking website for a reasonable price. There are LOTS of options available and he will even work with you about pricing and payment options. There's contact information on his page, so if you're curious, just give him a call or shoot an email. [/plug]
EDIT: He may also be able to host your site, if you wish. Check out the hosting page for info, or email/call him.
posted
I'm leery of any designer who does designs for businesses trafficking in blatantly copyright-infringing works: http://www.wehavehandbags.com/ (linked to from the web design examples).
Plus, most of his work appears to have been for himself (edit: which, along with working for friends, is much easier than and very different from working for an unknown client). And his sites are very inaccessible to anyone who has a screenreader or just bad eyesight (I'm a believer in an accessible web).
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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If you really feel like you want to start off a website like that and you think it would be worth the expences then go for it. However, I would recommend that you try and find some sort of fanbase prior to building the site. I don't know if you have already as I'm afraid I'm not familiar with your writing but I know of at least one site where you may be able to do so:
It's a website for writers who want their work critiqued or simply want to share it with someone else. The best way of getting people to read your stories through all that clutter is to review and comment on a few of their stories yourself.
I'm sure there are better ways of getting more recognition as a writer but I can't say I know of them, hope that helps!
Posts: 459 | Registered: Mar 2005
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Actually, most of his web design projects were for NASCAR or other racing-related teams or drivers. Yes, he has created his own websites, and because they look good he has decided to use them as examples of his work. Aside from maintaining contacts in the racing business, he does not personally know any of these clients.
I'm not sure about the copyright thing...he was asked to design the site, but he isn't involved in any of the content other than layout and graphics.
He also believes that he wants his websites to look good and be professionally designed, rather than attempting to make each and every page accessible by every person. He does what he can to make the sites cross-compatible with mant browsers, but in terms of the eyesight-issue, you would be able to work out details with him beforehand as to exactly what specs you wish.
Sorry to have "plugged" a designer that seems to be getting some bad reviews here, but you gotta help out the people you know!
Posts: 206 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Its just in very bad form to design such a website, since the value of his own work is derived largely from the strength of the copyright on it.
He's got an okay artistic eye, but his style's a bit narrow for my taste (his sites look remarkably identical). His design skills are still in the early stages of development, though, as he makes a number of newbie mistakes. Also, the low prices will not serve him well in the long run, as it reflects a low confidence in the quality of his own work and the value it provides to customers. People like him, who lowball what skills they have, make it hard for serious designers providing a significantly better value and charging commensurately more to convince people what they do is worth it.
If he keeps at it and does some self-guided learning on design principles, he'll be a decent designer some day.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
fugu, we always had the hardest time convincing clients to pay for a designer. It was always the first item on the chopping block after systems analysis.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:He also believes that he wants his websites to look good and be professionally designed, rather than attempting to make each and every page accessible by every person
One of the big benefits of paying for a designer is to have someone who will make sure that the site conforms to various standards, including ADA accessibility ones, IMHO.
No, it's not as much "fun" as playing with the graphics -- but it's one of the lines that separates a professional from a hobbyist.
Posts: 650 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I like Arachnophilia for Web design - it's free. I've only used the older, Windows-based version, but will try the "newer" (from 2003) Java-based version now.
I need to update my site - haven't worked on it in quite awhile. It's just a vanity site - a little about me and the kids.
posted
Dag: definitely. A lot of a designer's work is education on why design is valuable. Many designers just won't work with large swathes of clients because those clients are more trouble than they're worth, due to not seeing the value in quality design.
It always amuses me how companies are willing to lowball the production of that which is their primary public face to the public and other companies for years to come.
An identity package by him commands up to tens of thousands of dollars for a large business (because the value he provides to a business is relative to how big a business they are, and a larger business requires more research to produce an appropriate logo, price increases with business size; he has discounts for nonprofits and the like), and its worth every penny. If anyone can't see why, take a look at his awards page so you're not taking my word that his designs and packages are of highest quality.
Unfortunately, its hard for good designers without his stature to convince someone of not just all the value provided by a good designer, but that a quality designer is not able to make anywhere near a reasonable living off $100 logos, even if the actual creation of that particular logo takes a couple of hours, perhaps. Companies fail to include the costs of schooling, the time spent finding clients, the cost of software, the costs of hardware, the time needed for meetings and evaluation, the value of having an intermediary who can work with the printer and make sure the design is faithfully reproduced, et cetera, et cetera.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Scott R: Forum-- not sure about this one; how much mem/bandwidth does a forum need? I don't expect very much. . . Saxon? Jon Boy?
For my forum, the MySQL database takes up less than 25 MB. I currently use about 1.5 GB of bandwidth a month.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
fugu, if I may ask for my own curiosity, what "newbie mistakes" were you referring to? I don't have a lot of experience, but all I have ever noticed is minor typographical or grammar errors, and perhaps one or two broken links that are quickly fixed. If you've noticed something more major, I'm sure he'd like to know so that he can learn from them and improve his work. Thanks.
Also, how do you expect a beginning designer to jump-start a business if he's charging hundreds of dollars? Because people aren't familiar with the name, he'll need to get started somehow, and eventually people will be willing to pay more for the value and security they feel because they know the business.
I have noticed that many designs are similar, but I also know that the purposes of most of them are similar as well. For instance, an angular "parallelogram" design fits well with racing teams, and by the time you customize with photos, colors, and logos, just the shapes (and most of the time the fonts) echo the other sites.
I'm not meaning to start a big debate here, I just want to help him out as much as possible, and whatever you can supply as to improvements he could make are well worth my time.
posted
My brother just got a graphic design degree. I worked with him to make a website, and it was quite hard because of the whole identity thing. He lives in another state so we collaborated over a long distance. I talked with the client and got an idea what he wanted. Then my brother and I emailed about it and my brother whipped something up. I showed it to the client and he said what he liked and didn't, and then my brother made changes. Eventually, we were able to make an identity that the guy liked. Then we flushed it out into a webpage.
It was hard, and we undercharged, and because of that it is hardly worth my time to do it again. But it was a side thing for me, but for my brother he would like that to be his main staple. And his main problem is so many people hire high schoolers who make a webpage but then don't maintain it, and people come to him wanting to pay him what they paid the high schoolers except he has a family and you get the idea.
genius00345: One grammar or spelling mistake is one too many. Broke links are pretty much fatal, a sure sign the webpage isn't being maintained. Another bad practice is to use the phrase "under construction". Another problem is that I clicked on 4 internal links and all 4 opened new windows. And the biggest mistake is that there is text sitting on top of text with an image over all of it. I can't read some of the text. He made enough "design" mistakes that I would never hire him. There are many books published and webpages that list these mistakes in the top 10. I would say this designer has never read any of this literature.
Posts: 1209 | Registered: Dec 2003
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And it came to pass that there arose one like unto peanut butter, and she came willoning and walloning against the Inestimable.
And the Inestimable took her up by the nosehairs, yea, even the hairs of her nose, even the small crusty hairs, and made her to fly through the air and land in a vat of offal.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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Re: the parallelogram thing, its all well and good that it seems "speedy", but part of the reason a person or company pays a professional logo designer is to get a logo which is individual and sets one apart from the crowd. The parallelogram look is so overdone in racing-related paraphenalia most designers I know would specifically avoid it excepting a really great concept (which none of his are). Producing over-similar logos is by definition doing a disservice to his clients (except insofar as they specifically ask for them, and even then alternatives should be presented).
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Lots of people are paid. Some like to be paid a decent wage, which is why they have issues with your design prices. Some have pride in the quality of work they provide, which is why they have problems with the representation of your work as quality design.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Also, how do you expect a beginning designer to jump-start a business if he's charging hundreds of dollars? Because people aren't familiar with the name, he'll need to get started somehow, and eventually people will be willing to pay more for the value and security they feel because they know the business.
This is a common mistake made by new entrepreneurs. The type of clients you attract with low fees will seldom provide the type of references you need. It also becomes very hard to raise your rates once people know about them.
Most small IT service firms get by on word of mouth, not name recognition (the two concepts are quite different). Word of mouth is fed by satisfied customers. And it's hard to satisfy a customer on a low budget. Even if they accept that they have compromised solid design to save money - a perfectly valid business choice - it's hard to get them raving about a value site. Sure, they might be satisfied and might tell others, but they won't evangelize for you. And that's what's needed.
quote:I make money so I must be doing something right fuguey or what ever your name is...
I doubt you want to use that as the measure of credibility in this discussion. Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Yes. And your clients are wrong. Luckily, you can rip them off as long as they stay uninformed. If I were still freelance, I'd E-mail them a link to this thread -- and then my portfolio. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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